SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I tried to post from my phone yesterday but obviously it didn't work.
Just to say that as Doshin suggested I have no problem taking over after him (had planned some SG time this week anyway), but if someone else feels like jumping in... (Duckweed mentioned a roster system from former SGOTMs which I don't know about). And indeed a good time to update the grand strategy.
BTW we'll need to have a look at which AI trades maps at which diplo bonus, because map knowledge will be crucial regarding corporation objective (will do it later today or tomorrow except if someone else does first).
Just to say that as Doshin suggested I have no problem taking over after him (had planned some SG time this week anyway), but if someone else feels like jumping in... (Duckweed mentioned a roster system from former SGOTMs which I don't know about). And indeed a good time to update the grand strategy.
BTW we'll need to have a look at which AI trades maps at which diplo bonus, because map knowledge will be crucial regarding corporation objective (will do it later today or tomorrow except if someone else does first).
Yes, the next immediate city. If we want it, we need to hurry up. The things that I'm worry about is whether we could beat Toku, and a bit about how much it is going to sink our economy in short time. Assembling an SOD for Toku is going to take a long time, probably ~T100, while we are going to need the stone before taking from Toku's hand. We need to direct our workers in Constantinople to connect to Toku after chopping the forest. We gain 4C and a route to send our settler.
One small point that I didn't mention yesterday was that the newest barb city looks to be pre-settled. At the very least, it has LB defenders:
Spoiler :
I don't think that city was pre-settled, Barbarian was given Feudalism and hence defended by LBs.
PPP
Pics:
Thessalonica does not need to chop into the Granary. At size 2, work the Grass Hill for a turn, and then the whip is available (OR boost to hammers).
I've marked a few details I'm not sure about.
I spread Buddhism to Rice Pudding first in this test. Should we spread it to Sheepish first? Rice Pudding benefits immediately from the hammer boost. Sheepish can build more Missionaries. Sheepish will also need to whip a Courthouse shortly after T76.
Spoiler :
Pics:
Spoiler :
Thessalonica does not need to chop into the Granary. At size 2, work the Grass Hill for a turn, and then the whip is available (OR boost to hammers).
I've marked a few details I'm not sure about.
I spread Buddhism to Rice Pudding first in this test. Should we spread it to Sheepish first? Rice Pudding benefits immediately from the hammer boost. Sheepish can build more Missionaries. Sheepish will also need to whip a Courthouse shortly after T76.
Some suggestions, mainly about worker assignment.
1. 2 workers in Constantinople should connect the road network with Toku immediately (as I mentioned before, we gain 4C immediately) and then toward the Stone site. There's no time for other works. These 2 workers also need to improve tiles for Stone site. I don't mind whip Constantinople at size 4, just to gain 1 turn earlier. Send the woodman axe (can go 2N1W this turn then through forest/jungle tiles) to Toku's land and guard the site. We could send a couple of workers from Capital to Constantinople after chopping TGL. You need to update the tiles around stone site for the test. Sorry that I did not update since I thought Toku was more likely to claim the stone site before we have the chance. Edit: After looking at the save, Toku's border city is on the tile in the middle of 3 resources which has a border pop already. The Ivory tile is likely already roaded.
2. The worker in golden sands would be better to road toward the Pig/Wheat site and some prechops for CH. Golden sands should be farmed mainly due to short of food plus. My criteria is to ensure every city has 5~6 food plus before making cottages.
Regarding the missionary, I'd send it to Rice pudding as it could produce more to northern cities. HE is not the highest priority since we won't get Construction in a while. Capital could whip a missionary for Sheepish after NE, or even before NE to get the OF.
1. 2 workers in Constantinople should connect the road network with Toku immediately (as I mentioned before, we gain 4C immediately) and then toward the Stone site. There's no time for other works. These 2 workers also need to improve tiles for Stone site. I don't mind whip Constantinople at size 4, just to gain 1 turn earlier. Send the woodman axe (can go 2N1W this turn then through forest/jungle tiles) to Toku's land and guard the site. We could send a couple of workers from Capital to Constantinople after chopping TGL. You need to update the tiles around stone site for the test. Sorry that I did not update since I thought Toku was more likely to claim the stone site before we have the chance. Edit: After looking at the save, Toku's border city is on the tile in the middle of 3 resources which has a border pop already. The Ivory tile is likely already roaded.
2. The worker in golden sands would be better to road toward the Pig/Wheat site and some prechops for CH. Golden sands should be farmed mainly due to short of food plus. My criteria is to ensure every city has 5~6 food plus before making cottages.
Regarding the missionary, I'd send it to Rice pudding as it could produce more to northern cities. HE is not the highest priority since we won't get Construction in a while. Capital could whip a missionary for Sheepish after NE, or even before NE to get the OF.
Do you want to delay chopping the second Missionary, in that case?
This Forest tile is, in fact, good for a Worker returning from Constantinople. It will arrive with 0.5/2 movement points left on T74.
Ok.
The micro in this region is very tight, as you can see from the hammer count on T74.
There are five Workers used for TGL. Three move to Forests that have not been pre-roaded or pre-chopped.
That leaves two spare Workers. The Plains Cottage only requires two turns (completed on T73), and we need to work a Plains tile on T74 to complete the NE. One of the two Workers then goes westward.
The last 'spare' Worker improves the Grassland Cottage for a turn on T74, bringing it to 2/4 turns of improvement. This means that, on T75, we can switch the Grassland Hill to a Grassland Cottage.
I will take a look.
Farming > Cottage is fine. I can also pre-chop/road before beginning the farm.
Unless we have to, I am not keen on whipping the capital until it has grown to its happy/health cap. It is doubling up as a GPerson farm and on T76 we are just one tech away from Civil Service.
Regardless, the city cannot whip into the National Epic without delaying the wonder, so any whips will fall to the next player. I can build a Missionary on T76 (if it seems like a good idea), so that they can decide whether or not to whip.
Starting a missionary in capital and 2 pop whip it before completing NE is not that bad as it looks like. 1 turn earlier NE is 9 GPPs, not huge while we are planning to produce ~10 GPs. This also gives more time for other city to invest more hammers to NE, and less workers needed in capital. Edit: Another advantage of slowing down NE is that we never know when we could trade Math.
We are long way from CS, I'm undecided that we should research CS next immediately since 1 turn of anarchy at that time is quite big. We could go Music 1st and using that GA for the 1st golden age, need further assessment though.
A 2-pop whip of a Missionary is not possible with the current micro. We would need to build it on T73 and then whip on T74. Three Workers are due to complete their chops on T74, so they will have to perform empty tasks (e.g. Mine a Plains Hill for 1 turn) otherwise the chop 
will go to waste (OF would be capped at 40H).
A 1-pop whip of a Missionary is possible if we put the OF from TGL into this and then whip on T73. This will slow the NE by 1-turn.
A Settler can be whipped in Constantinople on T74 (produced by T75). It can settle the city quicker than we can road to it (by one or two turns). I don't think there is much that we can do about this. The Jungle and Mountain around Toku's territory make roading awkward.
----
I'm happy to play on, but I don't have the time to rework my micro substantially. I can easily 1-pop whip a Missionary in the capital, and begin to road towards the Stone/Dye.
If you want to 2-pop whip in the capital, or delay the NE still further, the next player will need to plan this. I need to work tomorrow and I think I have played more than half our turns by now, so it is time for someone else to run some tests and play.
will go to waste (OF would be capped at 40H).A 1-pop whip of a Missionary is possible if we put the OF from TGL into this and then whip on T73. This will slow the NE by 1-turn.
A Settler can be whipped in Constantinople on T74 (produced by T75). It can settle the city quicker than we can road to it (by one or two turns). I don't think there is much that we can do about this. The Jungle and Mountain around Toku's territory make roading awkward.
----
I'm happy to play on, but I don't have the time to rework my micro substantially. I can easily 1-pop whip a Missionary in the capital, and begin to road towards the Stone/Dye.
If you want to 2-pop whip in the capital, or delay the NE still further, the next player will need to plan this. I need to work tomorrow and I think I have played more than half our turns by now, so it is time for someone else to run some tests and play.
A 2-pop whip of a Missionary is not possible with the current micro. We would need to build it on T73 and then whip on T74. Three Workers are due to complete their chops on T74, so they will have to perform empty tasks (e.g. Mine a Plains Hill for 1 turn) otherwise the chop
A 1-pop whip of a Missionary is possible if we put the OF from TGL into this and then whip on T73. This will slow the NE by 1-turn.
A Settler can be whipped in Constantinople on T74 (produced by T75). It can settle the city quicker than we can road to it (by one or two turns). I don't think there is much that we can do about this. The Jungle and Mountain around Toku's territory make roading awkward.
The only reason that I'd like to whip settler as soon as possible is just to gain more chance of beating Toku to grab the site. It's unnecessary to settler the site immediately. It could just wait until workers are available if safe. Our axe will know whether Toku's settler is coming.
----
I'm happy to play on, but I don't have the time to rework my micro substantially. I can easily 1-pop whip a Missionary in the capital, and begin to road towards the Stone/Dye.
If you want to 2-pop whip in the capital, or delay the NE still further, the next player will need to plan this. I need to work tomorrow and I think I have played more than half our turns by now, so it is time for someone else to run some tests and play.
Could you let the 3 workers do other works (as you mentioned by spare workers) before going to the forest tiles? I'd prefer to chop at the last moment possible for possible Math bonus. Edit: If NE is estimated to completed on T76, then workers can start to go until T73. In that case, we could send 2 workers to Constantinople right after Chopping TGL.
If we two-pop whip a Missionary, we can send one 'spare' Worker much sooner to Constantinople. It will be done with the capital on T74, I think.
The other 'spare' will arrive there at the same time. T74/5, or so. I'd need to write out the micro.
Of the three 'essential' Workers, one will chop a roaded Forest (replacing the 'spare' Worker that left to Constantinople earlier), one can farm the tile 2N of the capital (2/5, for eventual irrigation spread) and another can farm the tile 1SE of Rice Pudding (2/5) for a turn.
In terms of empire wide development (and Worker management), the 2-pop whip looks stronger to me, because we can shift a Worker westward earlier and spread religion to an extra city.
I suppose the Settler whip can be timed according to the road network. If Toku has roaded the right tiles (1W of the hill and the Corn), the best scenario I can manage is:
Spoiler :
PPP
This needs some work. 1 less chop needed in Case Depart. I may be able to work a Grass Cottage > Grass Hill on T71.
I am not sure whether Constantinople's Missionary should go to the Horse City, to let us whip the Granary, or Sheepish. If we have Mathematics then definitely Sheepish. If we don't... er, probably Sheepish still? We can always delay growth in Horse City by working two Grass Forests @ size 2. The city is also more likely to receive natural religious spread.
If Toku's city is 1SE of the Corn, then we can settle on T77 (the earliest possible).
Spoiler :
This needs some work. 1 less chop needed in Case Depart. I may be able to work a Grass Cottage > Grass Hill on T71.
I am not sure whether Constantinople's Missionary should go to the Horse City, to let us whip the Granary, or Sheepish. If we have Mathematics then definitely Sheepish. If we don't... er, probably Sheepish still? We can always delay growth in Horse City by working two Grass Forests @ size 2. The city is also more likely to receive natural religious spread.
If Toku's city is 1SE of the Corn, then we can settle on T77 (the earliest possible).
One thing that I'd prefer is to delay the chop of forests possible.
Do we consider to prechop 1 or 2 forests in the Cornish Cow, this city needs CH soon.
Could you delay the chop of the silk forest? and in Golden sands as well. Since we are going to run 0% slider after CoL for a while, better to chop into CH than to Lib.
Since your save is short of cash to finish CoL, It's better to build wealth in some cities, such as Sheepish, CornishCow, or in Golden sands.
Moreover, you could consider producing missionaries in Rice pudding for Northern cities, as I said, HE is not a high priority.
Do we consider to prechop 1 or 2 forests in the Cornish Cow, this city needs CH soon.
Could you delay the chop of the silk forest? and in Golden sands as well. Since we are going to run 0% slider after CoL for a while, better to chop into CH than to Lib.
Since your save is short of cash to finish CoL, It's better to build wealth in some cities, such as Sheepish, CornishCow, or in Golden sands.
Moreover, you could consider producing missionaries in Rice pudding for Northern cities, as I said, HE is not a high priority.
I Cottage the tile 1N of the city, and the Forest 1NW will be chopped on the turn a turn or so after Code of Laws is researched. I can cottage the tile 1S instead, but I was reluctant to do this initially because we lack Math and roading the forest wastes Worker turns.
I don't finish the chop in Golden Sands until Code of Laws is researched. Oh, I see why you might think that I planned that. BUG doesn't auto-cancel chops like BUFFY. It was an accident.
This will fall to the next player. Rice Pudding will receive its religion from Case Depart's Missionary.
The save I attach is better than the earlier one.
I am 99% sure chopping the Silk is necessary. With the current micro, we only have 3OF after the NE is built:
The Forest 1SE of Constantinople doesn't need to be chopped. However, I use this to generate 8H more in Sheepish for fail gold:
So the difference is minor. More importantly, Sheepish will then also have a religion on the the turn we can build Courthouses, and it can start to build a Missionary.
I am 99% sure chopping the Silk is necessary. With the current micro, we only have 3OF after the NE is built:
Spoiler :
The Forest 1SE of Constantinople doesn't need to be chopped. However, I use this to generate 8H more in Sheepish for fail gold:
Spoiler :
So the difference is minor. More importantly, Sheepish will then also have a religion on the the turn we can build Courthouses, and it can start to build a Missionary.
I think you could do this in your set. I ran the test to T75 this time.
My goal is to get CHs in the 2 northern cities as soon as possible.
The reason why I want to delay the chop of silk forest is that I'm still anticipating Math trade.
