SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR

Darius Currency(13)
Looks like we have to get Aes ourselves. This is probably for the best. Gives us a head start on wonders.

I say we go Aes(7) right now.
We cancel Pig/Fur
We will have to get Marble from Gilga since we won't be able to capture it soon enough. Pig/Wine should do it.
We should probably get the Marble now T105 so that it is cancel-able any time after T115. Who knows, everyone might have Aes and we will be rush-chopping it. I don't think there is any danger of Gilga canceling Marble early on us.
We need to steal Poly yet.
Steal Mono
Switch to OrgRel.
Then build Parthenon and cancel marble.
We can build GreatLibrary once we reaquire marble.

The other option would be to build Glib quickly while we still have marble, but I think we need to focus on Zeus and Paya. I also would prefer to slow build Parthenon in ~9 turns if no one else has Aes. We will need the chops to finish other wonders fast after getting Gold and Ivory.

It will be at the earliest ~T122 Parthenon...unless we get scared and chop it.
 
Page 1 updated. WT, you're up next. Looks like you've got your work cut out for yourself. We absolutely need to capture Mecca asap because it's on a hill, probably with walls (like Carthage). It will be on marble so we can cancel the Zara deal. Let's capture it with its pants down, on Landing(T+1). All other Sal cities appear to be flat, so they'll fall easily if we capture pre-Feudalism. Chop/whip the galleys and units like mad (except Rome of course).

Capture Baghdad first as a landing point for the Mecca SoD, as previously discussed? We can start building cats so settling Iron T107 or T108 isn't absolutely critical.

Assuming this game is going farther up the tech tree, we should plan to grow Rome to size 20 or so to have 10 cities to work with. We desperately need to free Rome to build wonders without slowing down our warring. Requires 5 more farms in Rome eventually.

Capturing Mecca + Damascas will cripple Sal. Maybe then we move on to Zara and cripple her.

We could also consider pillaging Hanni's ivory. Resource deprive him of WEs. Need to hurry on that. Or just leave him alone. We should keep a scout up there to foresee any SoD coming our way.

That's how I see it anyway, to go along with your wonder plan.
 
I feel like I just finished my last TS :sad:. Let's give our other members a chance to stop by. I can't really play more the an hour here and there until Oct. 27th anyway.
I'm not going to abandon my team, but I also don't intend to play 1/3 (or more) of the rest of this nightmare game...as usual.

On the bright side, I really like how we've played so far. GW obviously panned out. I like the outside-the-box decision to go for Sal first--disrupt his wonder building. I like how we set up our tech stealing. Getting Alpha and the stopping research was ideal; we're all set up to rush Aes. We haven't grabbed free workers from Darius yet, (where did his first worker go?) but I understand the desire we had to keep OB. Maybe OB/Darius is not important any more and we should steal? Circumnav--very useful. Religion escort--lucky to stumble on that. In a perfect world, we would have had a small stack of chariots to grab Hadr when it was defended by only 1 archer. Then we'd have Ivory. We probably could have pulled that off instead of settling Bovino. Maybe that city will turn out useful. It's be nice if it actually had a bovine. As excruciatingly slow as it is, we need to waste the time settling iron. Fortunately, we can give away this city.
 
LowtherCastle said:
We could also consider pillaging Hanni's ivory. Resource deprive him of WEs. Need to hurry on that. Or just leave him alone. We should keep a scout up there to foresee any SoD coming our way.
Click to expand...

Let's leave him alone.
Is it true that we would see the fist icon by Hanni long before any stack would form and come our way?
 
I don't see Mitchum, dV or Seraiel getting involved at this point. If they do, great. Mitchum is the closest to being in touch and I'm certain he can't. His livelihood is at stake. It's no joke for him.

I'm resigned to it being the three of us unless someone surprises us. Anything else is wishful thinking.

Maybe ZPV will show up!!!
 
WastinTime said:
Let's leave him alone.
Is it true that we would see the fist icon by Hanni long before any stack would form and come our way?
Click to expand...
No clue. There seems to be an exception or two, but I've never studied that.

I'm fine leaving him alone. As long as we keep cranking out praets we should have emergency defenders. Plus, Rome will have a few defenders, to say the least. :)
 
One good thing about this scenario is that turns are faster with so few cities. Max 10 cities will be a breeze to the end.
 
Great job, LC! :goodjob:

I agree with the general plan. Looks like we'll be running into health issues soon. Too bad there's no wheat or rice for trade.

I'm resigned to it being the three of us unless someone surprises us.
Click to expand...
I doubt I can play a full turnset every other week. Too much RL stuff going on. It would be much easier for me if turnsets were shorter, 3-5 turns at a time. I can make room for a few hours on one evening every week, but not for several consecutive evenings every 2-3 weeks.

I'm having fun with this game so far. Might change once we get to the point where turns are dominated by my least favorite part of the game: unit micro. I hope not.
 
Hey guys. Sorry about not being able to play turns much this game. I just signed a new contact yesterday. I have a ton of work to do to ramp up next week and then I'll be in South Korea and Boston the two weeks after that. Things may settle down a bit when I get back but it's doubtful.

Maybe Pollina is onto something. As long as you three are on the same page and a ton of time doesn't have to be spent putting out PPPs, playing in shorter 5-turn sessions may be a little bit easier. That assumes, of course, that everyone is up to speed on the plan going forward.

I will continue to check in and make comments as I can. I'll let you know if/when my status changes and I'm able to play some turns.
 
T106 Poly
T108 Mono, OR, Revolt until t112
T112/T113 Aesthetics
T123 Parthenon (=building requirement for capturing Baghdad)

What do we need to capture Baghdad? Are 3 galleys, 2 cats & 4 praets enough?

T123 Baghdad attack:
Rome needs to build 2 chariots until t108 (IC), 1 praet until t112/113, OF into Parthenon
HC units need to be out until t113: 2 praets, 1 cat (1 chop, 2-whip)
FC units need to be out until t117: 2 galleys, 1 praet, 1 cat (2-whip, 2 chops or 2*2-whip, 1 chop)
Bovino: finishes granary first, won't contribute
 
WastinTime said:
We haven't grabbed free workers from Darius yet, (where did his first worker go?) but I understand the desire we had to keep OB. Maybe OB/Darius is not important any more and we should steal?
Click to expand...
The only effect of closed borders after DoWing Darius to steal his worker is that spies are slightly more likely to be caught ibt.
OB: 2% when unfortified, 0% when fortified
No OB: 5% when unfortified, 1% when fortified

DaGift is still building its first worker. Too many turns in revolt.

WastinTime said:
Is it true that we would see the fist icon by Hanni long before any stack would form and come our way?
Click to expand...
Hannibal is very likely to go for a dagger strategy. That means we won't necessarily see a fist while he is forming a stack. I seem to recall that we would see one as soon as his stack leaves his borders, but I can't find any evidence for that, so that might not be true.
 
Pollina said:
T123 Baghdad attack:
Rome needs to build 2 chariots until t108 (IC), 1 praet until t112/113, OF into Parthenon
HC units need to be out until t113: 2 praets, 1 cat (1 chop, 2-whip)
FC units need to be out until t117: 2 galleys, 1 praet, 1 cat (2-whip, 2 chops or 2*2-whip, 1 chop)
Bovino: finishes granary first, won't contribute
Click to expand...

Very nicely laid out plan.
I haven't looked closely at the tradeoffs yet, but I started to explore some flexibility in the plan:

If I'm not mistaken, the latest we can stretch the timeline is T114 unit out of HC and T119 unit out of FC. These last two units would arrive for T123 amphibious attack and/or unload to defend the city or the stack. (requires roaded wine at FC-W)
Bovino can contribute one whipped Praet T113 if we choose to delay the granary.
We could go with 5 Praet,1 cat or even 6 Praet (I think). What's better for a cat/Praet mix?
 
One indication that I've never played Praets, nor play games like these long drawn out conquests is that I wasn't aware they cost 45h. I would have guessed 40h (like a sword). Anyway, my point for looking up the cost was: they're still cheaper than a cat, so is suiciding a cat a good idea? or are we thinking we will bombard with cats?
 
We can't build praets until t108, and I don't think HC could build 3 praets in 4 turns (+1 anarchy turn). 1 cat and 2 praets in 7 turns is possible with a chop and a 2-whip. Could also be RAX and 2 praets.

FC could build another praet instead of the cat. That would be 6 praets total (including one from Bovino). Might be better. I haven't really looked into what our attack odds would be. I kinda expect that Sal will have LB's until then.
 
Pollina said:
T106 Poly
T108 Mono, OR, Revolt until t112
T112/T113 Aesthetics
T123 Parthenon (=building requirement for capturing Baghdad)

What do we need to capture Baghdad? Are 3 galleys, 2 cats & 4 praets enough?

T123 Baghdad attack:
Rome needs to build 2 chariots until t108 (IC), 1 praet until t112/113, OF into Parthenon
HC units need to be out until t113: 2 praets, 1 cat (1 chop, 2-whip)
FC units need to be out until t117: 2 galleys, 1 praet, 1 cat (2-whip, 2 chops or 2*2-whip, 1 chop)
Bovino: finishes granary first, won't contribute
Click to expand...
Out of town, without save till Monday, but I was assuming (maybe unrealistically) we'd approach it differently. FC cranks out galleys and units galley chain. That would allow us to use galleys and units built later. From your calcs, FC can produce 4 galleys by T113, right? That's already a chain to Baghdad, iirc. We can stack early units anywhere in Sal's lands, also spying on his cities, especially Mecca. Then load the initial 2-3 galleys just before DoW. Meanwhile more units keep coming.

That plan also allows us to select which city to attack first, based on defenders.

If we want to capture Baghdad first, Rome would have to build a monsterary before the Parthenon.
 
This is complicated. I think I'd like to send a pair of chariots over. Or whatever we can spare. Probably position them at South Narjan for the DoW. They can hit Baghdad on Dow+1 too (works even if borders expanded)
I would use the galley to bring them thru the jungle so they don't come upon a spear, and to save time.

I don't think we need to board a chariot this turn for IC.
We should be able to safely get off T106. Not necessarily ON the iron, but NE of it. In any case, we will know for sure if safe.
Settle it T107.
 
I think Rome can afford to whip (sometime after IC is settled) Probably T111. T112 anarchy. T113 Parthenon.
that'd be Rome size 11->9...or maybe just whip 11->10...I didn't study it yet.
Unless we'd rather try to get an extra attacker and whip T110 unit, T111 another unit (minimal OF into parthenon)

My choice is currently max OF into Parthenon. We have 3 Aes wonders to build.
 
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