[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[babybluepants]

Ok, so the 8th AI is indeed De Gaulle. His second city is Shanghai, 4 south of Tsing. He is annoyed with us at 0, and won't sign OB. I think we can safely assume that his capital is Paris somewhere between London, Berlin and Rome. Score = 172. Nothing in the diplo screen to suggest any further tech knowledge.

Unfortunately, the recon mission didn't quite map out the coastline to the SE, but without OB with France we wouldn't get trade in that direction anyway.

Edit: Shaghai is a nice city to capture.
Edit: Also has LB/archer

 

[WastinTime]

Let's get a look at the map first. Maybe the GP would be better off spawnbusting a few turns. Until borders pop. or even til ~T15 when one city pops again. Once the map is filled with max barbs they won't spawn until some start dying. Let's try and get the barb galleys to spawn far away and hassle someone else. It will be a while before a barb galley dies.

 

[babybluepants]

We are not seeing the island of Japan yet or any coast tiles indicating it, even though we've revealed the ocean as far north as Beijing. Could be it's just a small island, or it could be that Toku is on the mainland.

 

[WastinTime]

He is annoyed with us at 0, and won't sign OB.

Since we will be whipping and the AI grows very fast, I suspect they'll pass us up in the scoreboard (for a while). Having us on the bottom half might be enough to get to Cautious with DeGaulle and OB. It's a shame we are short a couple tiles opening up that trade rt.

When do barbs start spawning on classical? Could the GP make it safely to that corner to de-fog before barbs, spawnbust, and leave after borders pop? or just send the spy.
Once borders pop on HK and Shang, then the corner will be spawn-busted.

 

[babybluepants]

When do barbs start spawning on classical? Could the GP make it safely to that corner to de-fog before barbs, spawnbust, and leave after borders pop? or just send the spy.
Once borders pop on HK and Shang, then the corner will be spawn-busted.

Ran one test yesterday, and animals appeared T5-6 IBT.

Interesting idea. I was going to suggest that we send the GP scouting the American city area, and use the bomber NE-NW before rebasing. If we send the GP to the SE, the bomber should recon SW next, I think.

Edit: the spy could just scout the American city and surroundings.

 

[LowtherCastle]

bbp, can we gift dG ivory?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Also, between whom does dG fall in the F4 attitude screen? I mean where is he listed, not what is his attitude. (Or is the save uploaded? Edit: no.)

 

[babybluepants]

Unfortunately, I’m away from my laptop and won’t get back to it until late tonight.
IIRC, he was just about in the middle of the F4 screen. Could be 4th from the top. Why does this matter?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Unfortunately, I’m away from my laptop and won’t get back to it until late tonight.
IIRC, he was just about in the middle of the F4 screen. Could be 4th from the top. Why does this matter?

Doesn't really matter much, I don't think, I just like to put them in the correct order in klarius' attitude calculator. Btw, it does indeed show dG as -3 hidden attitude. If I get a chance, I'll test if gifting ivory on T0 gets us a plusmod. Probably worth it for OBs.

 

[LowtherCastle]

bbp, can we gift dG ivory?

Of course not, because no connection between our capitals. Duh.

Plus, in testing, gifting ivory to dG creates no plusmods. That's a reason for Alpha (or Currency).

 

[babybluepants]

Graph gazing:
XTeam played 8t. It looks like they are down 2 population points and have 90 culture. Not sure how they got that much. Holy city + 2 religions + palace for 7t is 63 culture. If they walked the GP to Yan’an, they couldn’t build the shrine until T6, so they would get 8 culture from that, leaving 19 unaccounted for.

 

[LowtherCastle]

GW @2cpt = 14
They might have used the cultural slider for faster border pop or to ensure Gua got the clams.

 

[Kaitzilla]

DeGaulle, yay!

Simply the best civ there is for Worker stealing and city gift abuse.
I don't think any civ talks peace faster.

The city is quite strong too with 14 potential.

I remain in favor of sending Great Prophet to capital as fast as possible, and not using it for coastal spawn busting waiting for Golden Age.

 

[LowtherCastle]

A bit more Demo analysis
JC's city is 5 land tiles
Toku and Churchill have at least 30 land tiles total in their 5 cities.
Roosy also probably has a chunk of land in America.

Not sure if that actually tells us anything.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Oh, we're stuck on that. I'm fine with using the prophet to make a Shrine asap. Pedal to the metal.

The best logic I can think of for the GSpy is to send him north to Stalin's second city and then to his capital, looking for stronger Russian units and workers. Why? Russia's capital is the closest for worker stealing. If we spot a cossack or something dangerous, the GSpy has to shadow him if we're going to capture a worker.

Otherwise, I don't see a lot of early worker stealing if sossos didn't put workers near us, yet we need a lot of workers. Now. Is three really enough? We could whip out more before going on the warpath. Like 6 or more. Then we have roads to our targets in addition to everything else.

 

[babybluepants]

DeGaulle, yay!

Simply the best civ there is for Worker stealing

Aah, that brings back memories of SGOTM 12, where we must have stolen 20 workers from him.

I don't see a lot of early worker stealing if sossos didn't put workers near us, yet we need a lot of workers. Now. Is three really enough? We could whip out more before going on the warpath. Like 6 or more. Then we have roads to our targets in addition to everything else.

3 definitely isn't enough. I suspect that the AIs will build workers right away in their colonial cities. It's deity, they have all the worker techs to start and they have good city garrisons. We also have full visibility and can guess where the workers are going.

 

[babybluepants]

What do we need to decide in order to play on a bit?

Are we in agreement on whip worker first in Gua?
Sounds like we are reaching an agreement on shrine asap.
Tech - lots of options mentioned. For the first 10+ turns we'll be on 0%, so I don't really care much. I would personally put it on Currency, but I'm happy to put it on any tech.

We need to determine what the units are doing, especially bomber and spy. Earlier I was thinking of the bomber scouting NE, then NW, then rebasing to Moscow and scouting SE-SW, followed by either a rebase to London or Berlin - I have to review the tile distances a bit. I was thinking of sending the spy to scout the American city area and head towards Bombay and then maybe further west. LC's plan above is the opposite for the spy. Thoughts?

Revealing those couple of tiles in the SE would be great, too. I guess we could just send the Gua archer there. Not as if we need it for CG yet.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If AIs build workers first, then we won't be able to capture their pop2 cities for quite a while. We need to be able to see their city builds asap so we can plan accordingly. South of Gua seems to be an island with lots of forests. Good for building the GLight? Our commerce looks weak so GL + 3 island cities asap would be smart. Our bomber isn't likely to reach TOku's capital. Since workers are our most pressing need now, maybe we should send the GSpy to defog Toku and the eastern coast, in hopes of locating his capital. We send one archer to defog Stalin's nearby city, another to defog the area between our two cities, and the third to Churchill's city, while the bomber rebases to Hong Kong (or Gua) to defog the southern island area.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If AIs build workers first, then we won't be able to capture their pop2 cities for quite a while. We need to be able to see their city builds asap so we can plan accordingly. South of Gua seems to be an island with lots of forests. Good for building the GLight? Our commerce looks weak so GL + 3 island cities asap would be smart. Our bomber isn't likely to reach TOku's capital. Since workers are our most pressing need now, maybe we should send the GSpy to defog Toku and the eastern coast, in hopes of locating his capital. We send one archer to defog Stalin's nearby city, another to defog the area between our two cities, and the third to Churchill's city, while the bomber rebases to Hong Kong (or Gua) to defog the southern island area.

Hold on. The quickest way to see all the nearby cities is from our home base, Toku and Stalin in one recon, Roosy and Churchill in the other. That's what I'd do. Hopefully that also gets us a connection to Gua. Then rebase south to see the island(s). That would be my prioritization because that feeds our decision making soonest.

Units move to defog nearby gaps in that reconnaissance.

 

[WastinTime]

Don't let me hold you up. I have no strong opinions so far. I like that we play a bit and pause for more brainstorming. For example, just the first recon alone made me think about defogging that water trade route and triggered thoughts about spawnbusting.