[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

There are 18 cities, right? barbs won't invade until there are over 24, right?
And won't the existing barb population keep any from spawning? Or does that barb population need to be on our landmass to prevent spawning? Bomber: Let's find those barbs!

9 players *3 = 27, right? Barb cities don't count. Barb units only count on same landmass.

 

[LowtherCastle]

probably only if we need astro. I imagine we need it for conquest, but not for domination.
The Civil Ministry wants us to kill 'em all tho. Being the only civ left also boosts several other categories.

I thought we'd already concluded Conquest. What I'm asking is, do we go wonderbread to feed conquest asap?

100 military
100 civil
58 diplo
24 science
100 culture
38 wonders
----------------
420

Less science means more espionage slider for culture. Fewer wonders mean more hammers for spies. All we need for Astro is Calendar+ COmpass+Optics+ one or two GSes for Astro. (Wait -- can we bulb Astro?)

 

[Kaitzilla]

yea, I think aggressive worker stealing is the main early focus. We can do the anger-erase-city-gift tactic to get war success and quick cease fires. Should keep us from having to worry about a longbow going on the attack.

Is there anyone we want to keep good diplo relations with? All this warring could put us in rough shape. i.e. do we eventually need someone to vote for us? or not worry about that.

If I'm reading the Tea Leaves right, the best way to win is Diplomation with AP victory.
Our vassals get us the AP vote.
Crushing everyone and getting Conquest/Dom after Cultural Ministry reaches 100 points.

From the points:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-25-maintenance-thread.626766/

Science Ministry: 42 points if we get all Medieval Techs, or 28 points if we get all Classical Techs.
Cultural Ministry: 100 points if we get 1 city to 150,000
Military Ministry: 100 points if we have 90% of the world's population and a few vassals.
Civil Ministry: 100 points if we are #1 on everything in Demo Screen. (Not hard if everyone is dead)
Religious Ministry: 50 points for AP win, or 25 points for just being AP leader.
Construction Ministry: 4 points for each Wonder.

Teams wins if 420 points are reached.

Conquering the world and gobbling up Wonders and Shrines is the best way to win.
Get enough wonders, and just Classical techs and being AP leader is enough to win.

Biggest question mark is that 150,000 city.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If I'm reading the Tea Leaves right, the best way to win is Diplomation with AP victory.
Our vassals get us the AP vote.

From the points:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-25-maintenance-thread.626766/

Science Ministry: 42 points if we get all Medieval Techs, or 28 points if we get all Classical Techs.
Cultural Ministry: 100 points if we get 1 city to 150,000
Military Ministry: 100 points if we have 90% of the world's population and a few vassals.

Any idea how vassals affect the civil rankings?

 

[LowtherCastle]

To bulb Astro we need to hold off on Civil Service and Theology!!!

 

[Kaitzilla]

Any idea how vassals affect the civil rankings?

Vassals might mess up Approval Rating, Export-Imports, and Life expectancy rankings if we have a big unhealthy empire I think?

 

[WastinTime]

To bulb Astro we need to hold off on Civil Service!!!

yea, I was just gonna say that... and Theo, right? Opens up Paper, Edu

 

[LowtherCastle]

yea, I was just gonna say that... and Theo, right? Opens up Paper, Edu

Right! And Theology. Access to Paper kills the bulb.

 

[Kaitzilla]

To bulb Astro we need to hold off on Civil Service and Theology!!!

99% of SGOTM's are won using Astro.
What % of our map is water?

We have a Land Tile count and a vague estimate of the map size thanks to Bomber.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I thought we'd already concluded Conquest. What I'm asking is, do we go wonderbread to feed conquest asap?

100 military
100 civil
58 diplo
24 science
100 culture
38 wonders
----------------
420

Less science means more espionage slider for culture. Fewer wonders mean more hammers for spies. All we need for Astro is Calendar+ COmpass+Optics+ one or two GSes for Astro. (Wait -- can we bulb Astro?)

To get more than 25 diplo points, don't we have to win an AP victory?

**Edit**
Oh, I think I see.
AP or UN win is automatic 100 points?

Less than that is 25 points for being leader and a few more points for votes as predicted by Buffy mod?

**Edit2**
I don't understand the diplo point scoring system at all.
UN obsoletes AP, so can't be leader of both.

 

[WastinTime]

To get more than 25 diplo points, don't we have to win an AP victory?

**Edit**
Oh, I think I see.
AP or UN win is automatic 100 points.

Less than that is 25 points for being leader and a few more points for votes as predicted by Buffy mod?

No, I think we decided that an AP win is only 58pts.
And, we can probably get 57 or 58 pts by just being leader and counting votes without actually voting.

The only way to get 100 is to research MassMedia, build UN and be leader of that.

 

[LowtherCastle]

99% of SGOTM's are won using Astro.
What % of our map is water?

We have a Land Tile count and a vague estimate of the map size thanks to Bomber.

I'm calculating that our map has a maxplotdistance of 64, whatever that mean for the x,y coordinates. I can never remember how they get maxplotdistance. Thatcalculation presumably incorporates the toroidal factor.

 

[WastinTime]

UN obsoletes AP, so can't be leader of both.

I think you're still leader of the AP even if it's obsolete, but yea, Diplo is confusing.

 

[LowtherCastle]

So the question is, can we move on and decide some things later? To me the only outstanding question is tech choice. I floated this earlier iirc but this is my big-picture thinking:

1. I assume we'll need Astro to conquer America, meaning we'll need Compass and Optics from the Medieval techs.
2. I see us being able to get a lot of the Classical techs in trade.
3. We want Music for the GA. Construction we'll have to tech, maybe Theology after Astro, otherwise maybe let the AIs tech the rest of the Classical techs for us while we beeline Astro and go on a warring rampage. In other words, we simply tech as little as possible.

So we kill or StoneAge the AIs asap, while letting them tech a bit for us, then we focus on getting 150,000 culture. We only build a few wonders. GAMEOVER.

Thoughts? Am I missing something? (Of course, very soon we re-base to America to see if it's only Astro reachable.)

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think you're still leader of the AP even if it's obsolete, but yea, Diplo is confusing.

My understanding is that we need to get elected Leader for 25 pionts and then use the F8 Members screen to determine how much more we can get, up to 33 points for AP. (That is, the 33 points are independent of an AP victory vote.)

 

[WastinTime]

To me the only outstanding question is tech choice.

I don't care much here because we're at 0%. Whatever: construction, compass, probably not currency. We can maybe get that free.

i think the big decision to play on is workboat or worker

 

[babybluepants]

I know we concluded conquest earlier, but I’ve been thinking... given what we know about the map so far and that we are assuming 100pts for culture, conquest might not be necessary. It feels like the main continent should be enough for domination - we can confirm that pretty quickly with the bomber). We wouldn’t get the full 100pts for civil, but we would get the majority of it (we only lose about 1.25pts for going down a rank in one category) - need to study the demographics screen in a bit more detail.

100 military (combination of land, pop and kills)
100 culture
80-90 civil
58 AP
28-42 science (via trade / stealing)
32-56 construction (8-14 wonders, we should capture most of that + palace + shrine + Kremlin)

No Astro needed at all. Only whatever tech we will need to kill the continental AIs.

We may actually want to trigger the win with the AP, which would mean we want someone who can vote for us.

 

[babybluepants]

I think it's worth doing a few test runs on Guangzhou. atm, I prefer wb first, but I'm not 100% sure.

On the tech, I don't particularly care. Given that we are currently bleeding cash, we could just run 0% slider for a while. Putting the loose beakers into Construction sounds ok to me.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think it's worth doing a few test runs on Guangzhou. atm, I prefer wb first, but I'm not 100% sure.

On the tech, I don't particularly care. Given that we are currently bleeding cash, we could just run 0% slider for a while. Putting the loose beakers into Construction sounds ok to me.

I like Currency first unless an AI revolts to Monarchy Turn 1.
In that case I'd like Alpha first to trade for fast Monarchy.
We don't really need Catapults or War Elephants to rock the AI.

I also like worker first and later fish boat chop for the extra worker turns and 1 less anger.
That allows some roads to connect to capital if needed.
It also allows a 2 pop whip of Galley.
Taken off the queue after whipping, it allows another 2pop whip of Swords.
Then all 3 can be produced using the overflows and the city can be gifted to england at size 3.
Then city retaken with archer on galley and it is Size 3 with no anger, 3 food tiles, and we have 3 units to take Hong Kong.

No Japan war needed.

**Edit**

Bah, Hong Kong's Longbow and Archer have City Defense 1 and Drill 1 Promotions.
2 Swords, Bomber, and Archer might not be enough.

 

[WastinTime]

We may actually want to trigger the win with the AP,

maybe, but the hard part on AP victory is getting the vote turn to line up with your other goals. Much nicer to just pull the trigger on domination.