[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

Churchill built a Hindu monastery in Mumbai to pop its borders. Mehmed built a granary. We've got a gold tile in our culture now. Where the hell are all our workers?

1. The watermill worker is on auto. Stop and mine the iron next turn? We might need iron if we want to steal workers and defend ourselves. We don't have the bomber back yet.
2. Keep a turn-by-turn eye on dG. If Shanghai or Paris grows before Toku, then dG might jump to 5th place and sign OBs.
3. Do we covet Tsingtao? Do we really want to DoW Bismarck? He's where we have our eps now. That's not the only copper tile. We gave up on Roosy because of no Astro plans. Keeping Bismarck our friend means cheaper culture espionage (a TR gives a 20% discount). Or do we need to keep Astro in mind for now?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ok, I counted. There are 813 tiles on the continent currently visible. I'd estimate another 60-70 or maybe more fogged. We can also see 70 island tiles right now. That is approx. 950 out of 1007 needed for domination. Hopefully there are more islands accessible pre-Astro. It's close.

Didyou only count absolutely visible tiles in the 813? Or also adjacent fogged tiles? About how many did you estimate for Africa? And Scandinavia? Asking because it seems to me Scandinaviia might have many more than 60-70.

 

[babybluepants]

Didyou only count absolutely visible tiles in the 813? Or also adjacent fogged tiles? About how many did you estimate for Africa? And Scandinavia? Asking because it seems to me Scandinaviia might have many more than 60-70.

I counted fogged tiles that I can clearly see are there in the 813, and I made a conservative estimate for north Europe and bits of north Asia in the 60-70.

 

[babybluepants]

Here is the updated test save.

 

[babybluepants]

Since we can't agree on what to research, how about HBR? We can have it in about 15t. The AIs really seem nerfed at this point. They will take some time to get to Feudalism. I think we should try to come up with an estimate of how long it would take to get to Europe with enough HAs.

 

[LowtherCastle]

No one teched IW yet. Keep an eye out for a big jump in score. Good to get an idea of ow fast they're teching.

 

[babybluepants]

1. The watermill worker is on auto. Stop and mine the iron next turn? We might need iron if we want to steal workers and defend ourselves. We don't have the bomber back yet.

I slightly preferred watermill first slightly in testing from the perspective of Beijing development. If we need iron for units, that's different...

We've got a gold tile in our culture now. Where the hell are all our workers?

I was wondering about this going forward. It will take a bit of time to hook up. Do we forego other improvements in Yan'an?

Do we covet Tsingtao? Do we really want to DoW Bismarck?

I don't think that I do, but I thought we should discuss it. DG and Toku should have workers soon, and we should have our first chariot as back-up by then. I'd prefer to not mess up the early build order in Beijing for an emergency unit whip.

 

[babybluepants]

2. Keep a turn-by-turn eye on dG. If Shanghai or Paris grows before Toku, then dG might jump to 5th place and sign OBs.

No one teched IW yet. Keep an eye out for a big jump in score. Good to get an idea of ow fast they're teching.

Good points. I've been keeping track of the scores carefully, for the pop2 growth.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Nearby AI cities, in approximate order of covet:

Manchou - Toku (fur)
Shanghai - de Gaulle (GLH)
Hong Kong - Churchill (TRs)
Mongolia - Stalin (two tiles still fogged) (gold)

Less so:
Chongqing - Roosy
Tsingtao - Bismarck (copper)
Tokyo - Toku (future vassals)
Mumbai - Churchill (prime dreck)

=============
Distant AI cities:

Berlin - Bismarck (flood plains)
All others uzelezz

==============
Tech trade at:

Pleased
Stalin
Toku

Cautious
All others

In other words, with some work, the AIs we could DoW once and still trade with are: Churchill, Roosy, JC, and Bismarck.

Spoiler t12 AI attitudes :

You see here the hidden attitudes of AIs for us to the right of the word Hidden. Lower you see the hidden attitudes of AIs for other AIs. If we have the same ANNOYED or FURIOUS hidden value as an AI, we become the Worst Enemy. That's why we're Stalin's WE.

What's our plan?

 

[Kaitzilla]

that sounds possible.

I just checked in Test Game, and DoW with simulated France instantly severed the trade route.
So that means trade routes can form through Closed Border civs


All this time, it was fogged tiles holding back my trade routes, and not Closed Borders.
But the Closed Borders was why I couldn't unfog the tiles!

In the past, I never really scouted with Spies, so I never noticed it before.
Barb cities always block trade routes because they are always at war with everyone.

 

[babybluepants]

All this time, it was fogged tiles holding back my trade routes, and not Closed Borders.
But the Closed Borders was why I couldn't unfog the tiles!

This is really interesting.

It has potentially applications, like making sure to scout around a coast before an AI border pop. I'm sure I've missed opportunities to do that in the past.

 

[babybluepants]

Nearby AI cities, in approximate order of covet:

Manchou - Toku (fur)
Shanghai - de Gaulle (GLH)
Hong Kong - Churchill (TRs)
Mongolia - Stalin (two tiles still fogged) (gold)

Less so:
Chongqing - Roosy
Tsingtao - Bismarck (copper)
Tokyo - Toku (future vassals)
Mumbai - Churchill (prime dreck)

Generally agree, except Shanghai would be my priority capture if we're considering GLH.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I slightly preferred watermill first slightly in testing from the perspective of Beijing development. If we need iron for units, that's different...

We need the iron when we're ready to whip swords in Gua. Capture Shanghai with 2 swords from Gua and a couple chariots. Iron sooner if Beijing is ready to build them sooner.

I was wondering about this going forward. It will take a bit of time to hook up. Do we forego other improvements in Yan'an?

We need to keep a balance. If we can wait on the gold, it would be nice to use Mongolia's instead. Then again, if we find we need Astro, we want to run scientists somewhere asap and we'll need happies for that.

I don't think that I do, but I thought we should discuss it. DG and Toku should have workers soon, and we should have our first chariot as back-up by then. I'd prefer to not mess up the early build order in Beijing for an emergency unit whip.

I agree on avoiding unnecessary whipping. I'm leaning toward skipping that worker for now. Then again, do we want Bismarck to have axes? He's going to have iron pretty soon anyway.

We kind of need free up our bomber to get back to the war zone. Synchronize the bomber and built units.

 

[babybluepants]

We need the iron when we're ready to whip swords in Gua. Capture Shanghai with 2 swords from Gua and a couple chariots. Iron sooner if Beijing is ready to build them sooner.

We kind of need free up our bomber to get back to the war zone. Synchronize the bomber and built units.

With the current plan, we connect the iron while Beijing is building its first chariot. If we want a sword first, we would need to adjust.

The bomber was meant to go to Washington next and do two turns of recon from there to circumnav E-W. It could be back in Beijing on T16, but that is too soon. There are, unfortunately, some fogged tiles along the south coast, which will block out trade routes to Europe. It would also be great to confirm the domination land limit sooner rather than later. I'll have to think about the most efficient way to achieve that.

 

[LowtherCastle]

With the current plan, we connect the iron while Beijing is building its first chariot. If we want a sword first, we would need to adjust.

The bomber was meant to go to Washington next and do two turns of recon from there to circumnav E-W. It could be back in Beijing on T16, but that is too soon. There are, unfortunately, some fogged tiles along the south coast, which will block out trade routes to Europe. It would also be great to confirm the domination land limit sooner rather than later. I'll have to think about the most efficient way to achieve that.

I see. I think we want Manchou asap for the furs, all of which takes a while. Then Mongolia. Meanwhile, Shanghai then Hong Kong from Gua. So I prefer the sword in Beijing asap, with chariots coming from Yanan. I think we could even capture Manchou with a sword and two chariots, as long as another unit is on the way.

We won't circumnavigate e-w until Roosy settles Los Angeles or Seattle. Otherwise, I agree with your recon plan.

Edit: We waant to have a general idea of the North American layout, in particular if it's galley-reachable.

 

[babybluepants]

In my most recent test, I gifted and recaptured Gua on (I think) T23. It would be great if we could be ready to bomb Manchou on the same turn (and also ideally steal a worker from the iron). That's quite a few moving parts...

In testing, Toku's LB went after my chariots outside of the city, so I was thinking we may even take it with 3-4 chariots from Beijing.

 

[babybluepants]

We won't circumnavigate e-w until Roosy settles Los Angeles or Seattle. Otherwise, I agree with your recon plan.

Edit: We waant to have a general idea of the North American layout, in particular if it's galley-reachable.

Pretty sure we can from Washington.
It's tricky, though. Taking extra turns of recon may be required for better map layout.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Pretty sure we can from Washington.
It's tricky, though. Taking extra turns of recon may be required for better map layout.

If I zoom out to 100% and turn on alt-X, I can count 13 tiles westward from Washington, make a BFC sign, then 13 tiles farther westward, make a second BFC sign, then 13 more tiles westward to Manchou. Doesn't that mean we'll fall 13 tiles short of e-w circum?

 

[LowtherCastle]

In my most recent test, I gifted and recaptured Gua on (I think) T23. It would be great if we could be ready to bomb Manchou on the same turn (and also ideally steal a worker from the iron). That's quite a few moving parts...

In testing, Toku's LB went after my chariots outside of the city, so I was thinking we may even take it with 3-4 chariots from Beijing.

If we could bomb the lb, then lure him to attack a sword, we'd get even better odds. Not sure he'd do it, but who cares?

 

[babybluepants]

I can't look at the game now, but I tested it in the test save.

Maybe the real map is more than 84 wide? You're saying that there is 39 tiles from Washington to Manchou, but there must be more than 45 from Manchou to Washington the other way.