This clever idea is a good example of why I don't like to just chop all my forests cus it seems like the fast thing to do. The window for warrior production is small and we probably need a forest for this.
[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
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This clever idea is a good example of why I don't like to just chop all my forests cus it seems like the fast thing to do. The window for warrior production is small and we probably need a forest for this.
From memory:
Ivory already connected to Gau is a big help.
If we chop the Workboat and then farm Rice, we can do a fair amount of 2 pop whips in Gua.
Growing to size 4, we'd have the 1 anger from Granary whip since the Worker whip anger wore off.
Anger issues only start at size 4 thanks to
Ivory and not 1pop whipping workboat.
The 1st 2pop sword+chariot combo produced can garrison Gau to help with happiness to produce the next 2 pop whip.
Adopting Taoism powers the next 2 pop whip.
Anger wearing off? powers the next 2 pop whip.
The improved fish allows us to constantly reach size 4 as fast as possible.
Giving the city away at size 3 means it works 3 good food tiles as soon as we get it back.
**Edit**
It is better than whipping all the way down to size 1 since it recovers a lot faster ya.
It is totally worth it to chop that Workboat and play chicken with the barbs.
The mapmaker already nerfed the Deity AI in relation to the human player.
Have we seen a barb yet in the real game?
I bet the barbs don't even have Sailing yet to help the human players even more.
1 pop whipping the Workboat speeds up when we have to gift Gau away and is a lost opportunity for another 2 pop whip later.
Plus, every time we give away a Size 3 city we lose 13
at minimum, so there's always a cost to remove all city anger beyond diplomacy considerations.The 2nd forest growing in Gau is the civ gods approving chopping that Fish workboat haha.
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LowtherCastle
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They need a strategic resource or feudalism to build that second defender. Plus, my thinking is that the chariots will be led by European-built swords after the first captures. We could even send a couple swords in that direction as soon as the roads are up. What roads? Hm...
1whip at pop2 yields 30 base h for 11f, so if we only wait one extra turn we break even, right? Plus, we save a whip. Anyway, it was just a thought. Not sure if Churchill will even accommodate. Knowing the AI, he'd send it off on a swimabout.Having a granary city with +12
Yes.
ok, I trust you on the workboat. I'm on board. pun intended .
LowtherCastle
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I'm just looking at how to get the units produced asap. We're going to lose the granary food no matter what so that's roughly a draw. We also want to factor in the benefits of having Shanghai sooner. Can we capture Shanghai sooner by cranking out some 1whipped units?From memory:
Ivory already connected to Gau is a big help.
If we chop the Workboat, we can do a fair amount of 2 pop whips in Gua.
Growing to size 4, we'd have the 1 anger from Granary whip since the Worker whip anger wore off.
The 1st sword chariot combo produced can garrison Gau to help with happiness to produce the next 2 pop whip.
Adopting Taoism powers the next 2 pop whip.
Anger wearing off? powers the next 2 pop whip.
The improved fish allows us to constantly reach size 4 as fast as possible.
Giving the city away at size 3 means it works 3 good food tiles as soon as we get it back.
It is totally worth it to chop that Workboat and play chicken with the barbs.
1 pop whipping the Workboat is a lost opportunity for a lovely 2 pop whip later.
Plus, every time we give away a Size 3 city we lose 13
I normally imagine whipping down to size 1, piling up max anger, but I rarely have a city with 3 food--all improved. I agree we do it the way you describe. +12 food gets us back in the action after emptying the food bin.
But I think it all works fine without the fish too. It's still +9 food at size 3, so we grow to size 4 very fast.
Are we doing any spawnbusting on the coast for galleys?
LowtherCastle
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Have we also considered whipping Beijing to death and gifting? Is there any limit to our depravity?
not always benefits to earlier capture. Cities can grow or build a granary, or worker, or settler, or wb, etc. Improvements are built at double speed.
Only limit is our capital, we can't gift that.
There is an awful lot of coastline to bust.
It might be cheaper to get circumnavigation bonus and make 1 Trireme to guard our 4 seafood (Thanks France) from barb Galleys.
This makes it hard for me to beg for Libraries, Barracks, and Walls outside the capital.
And every turn an AI city owns a city up to 50 turns increases capture gold.
I don't mind if Deity France has a few extra turns to improve and grow his city for us if it gives us a more explosive buildup using 2 pop whips instead of 1pop whips.
That Deity AI Size 1 17
food bin will fill up fast if his workboat hooks up fish next turn.
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yea, I meant just our immediate problem areas
but then isn't there a huge jump when it hits 50? Like +50
to the base + random + etc.but then isn't there a huge jump when it hits 50? Like +50
T-Hawk posted the formula in their "pillage formula for conquer gold" thread.
City Conquest
= ((20 +10*CityPop+Rand (1to50)+Rand(1to50)) * (Turns AI owned city/50))The reason to use two 50-sided dice rolls instead of one 100-sided die is to produce a normal distribution (Nerds know what this means) centered around 51
.There are 50 dice pairs that make 51
, but only 1 dice pair roll that makes 2 or 100, making them much more rare.A single 100-sided die would give equal odds of giving 2
, 51, or 100.The turns a city is owned gives you a percent of the [20+10*citypop+twodiceroll]
jackpotThe AI owning the city for 5 turns means you get 10% of the jackpot.
25 turns means you get 50%
There is no way to game the system because Turns_Owned resets to Zero once the AI loses the city.
**Edit**
Formula fixed
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LowtherCastle
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Btw, I see us stealing CS from Toku for as little as 110 eps, even without TRs. We should probably just do that as soon as we determine we don't need Astro. And we should switch our eps to him for that purpose. Pity we didn't plan that from the start but no biggie, it's so cheap. We'll need Alpha first.
Toku often techs Alpha early on and will trade it at Pleased. We could get him to Pleased with +4 fair trade and 50t of resource trades. Toku might be the fastest techer right now, having Bureau and his second city not too far from his capital.
Right now, we could gift Toku, one at a time, wheat, corn, and pigs. That's 30t on T22. Sooner or later he'll cancel the corn and wheat but we'd be close enough to 50t to make it happen when needed. But that would mean leaving Manchou alone for now.
Toku often techs Alpha early on and will trade it at Pleased. We could get him to Pleased with +4 fair trade and 50t of resource trades. Toku might be the fastest techer right now, having Bureau and his second city not too far from his capital.
Right now, we could gift Toku, one at a time, wheat, corn, and pigs. That's 30t on T22. Sooner or later he'll cancel the corn and wheat but we'd be close enough to 50t to make it happen when needed. But that would mean leaving Manchou alone for now.
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Oh, is that a wisp of life for Alphabet 1st?
Need spy units to steal Civil Service.
LowtherCastle
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Pls see edit above.Oh, is that a wisp of life for Alphabet 1st?
Need spy units to steal Civil Service.
Heh, that plan means no adopting Taoism for +1 happiness.Pls see edit above.
None of the AI have Ironworking yet right?
100% of all AI tech Iron Working before Alphabet in my past test games.
We're going to be waiting for a long time before AI build workers, tech IW, then tech Alpha.
**Edit**
Actually, the -2 religion anger could be neutralized with a city gift on Tokyo's island.
It would instantly give +4 fair trade and +1 liberation bonus.
+2 more relations from 3 resource gift hmm
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LowtherCastle
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I thought we ruled out adopting Taoism early on a while ago.
No AI IW yet. Scores will jump. (Scores will jump circa T20-23 for land too btw.) Power will also jump. That will be the tell-tale sign. 10K leap for IW, diagnosable on the Demo screen.
Yeah, AIs will be slow teching. We'd be lucky if Toku went IW-Alpha. That's why I was asking earlier how were going to tech. The fastest route for us might be to plan to tech most everything on our own. Or not.
Another thought I had was to beeline GLH and Kremlin then spam coastal settlers. Our tech rate could be based on having a zillion cities, needed for domination anyway. Instead of thinking of settlers as a cost, we think of them as a down payment on the spies we'll need instantly later. For 1100 land tiles we probably need 40+ cities total. We could also go heavy on the failgold too with all those cities. Infinite city spam used to be a great stategy, voided by CIV, but this scenario opens up that possibility.
If we built the Mids, then each city w/library could run two Rep scientists for 15bpt on top of the GLH TRs. All we do is spam cities and the teching will take care of itself. If I'm not mistaken, the most common mistake made in fastest domination finishes is not spamming settlers soon enough.
LowtherCastle
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Or instead of expensive libraries...build cheap pavilions to grow our dominating cities faster, and run 4b 4c Rep artists so we also spam a few GAs for our LC.
