[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

**Edit**
Actually, the -2 religion anger could be neutralized with a city gift on Tokyo's island.

It would instantly give +4 fair trade and +1 liberation bonus.

+2 more relations from 3 resource gift hmm

Good point. Two cities liberated would be +7. So we could even capture Manchou and still get him to Pleased by adding +1 resource trades. But if he settles one first, we'd be screwed. Or not, there's room for three more cities...

 

[LowtherCastle]

This is fun.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Bbp, it's okay with you, could we hold off till tomorrow, pls? I'll have some time to look at the MM and timing of attacking Manchou, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Mongolia. Compare with their current builds. Think about our wonder builds. See if we can put together a bigger picture for this opening phase.

 

[babybluepants]

Bbp, it's okay with you, could we hold off till tomorrow, pls? I'll have some time to look at the MM and timing of attacking Manchou, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Mongolia. Compare with their current builds. Think about our wonder builds. See if we can put together a bigger picture for this opening phase.

Definitely.
Just catching up... With all the great ideas flying around today, we should really take our time to figure out the timing of the warfare. It will likely affect city and worker MM from this turn.

 

[WastinTime]

I almost skipped Kremlin in my ongoing space game and now that I have it, I can't imagine playing without it, and I probably should have gotten it 45 turns sooner. I'd like to see a focus on this. I could care less about doing GLH ourselves right now. I'd like to see if we can let an AI near us build it. Maybe plan to take it out from under Roosy if he's on it. It's very special that we get to see what every city is building this early.

 

[babybluepants]

How about granary / sword / sword / sword / chariot / chariot? Or something like that. Our worker could road Gua-NE-2N2E before farming the rice maybe. And maybe even skip the chop if possible.

One issue with this is that we don't necessarily need this many swords for Shanghai, and it's a long trek for them to Manchou after. Also, it's a bit difficult to line up 2pop whips of swords because of all the OF. If Shanghai is our first target, it's quicker to get there with chariots.
With the 3 food, Gua regrows so fast. I'm debating whether the chop wb is worthwhile... We should test without, as well.

 

[babybluepants]

Here's one with: granary whip / part chariot / sword whip / finish chariot / galley whip / wb. Shanghai capture on T23. Got lucky in that his LB attacked my chariot and got killed by another chariot. Unlucky in that he had 3 archers. I think those offset. If they have archers as CG, the LB is more likely to attack. I think T23-25 is what we should be aiming for with Shanghai.

Edit: I think we need minimum 4 units, but I also think we should rebase the bomber to Beijing earlier than the attack and use it to recon.

It means that Gua gets its strat resources disconnected before it gets too many units out. Hence the galley-wb combo.

 

[babybluepants]

Have we also considered whipping Beijing to death and gifting? Is there any limit to our depravity?

I don't necessarily mind, but Beijing can do 20hpt at pop5. We can get there by T25-26 probably. It only has one 5fpt food.
Edit: It's different if we're making some Kremlin play there.

 

[babybluepants]

I don't mind if Deity France has a few extra turns to improve and grow his city for us if it gives us a more explosive buildup using 2 pop whips instead of 1pop whips.
That Deity AI Size 1 17 food bin will fill up fast if his workboat hooks up fish next turn.

The flip side is that they do sometimes whip archers. Since we need 3t of bomber action after DoW, there is an opportunity for it.

 

[WastinTime]

The flip side is that they do sometimes whip archers. Since we need 3t of bomber action after DoW, there is an opportunity for it.

That would be unusual if we're not threatening the city

 

[babybluepants]

That would be unusual if we're not threatening the city

I want to say that we are threatening the city... but how does this work exactly?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I want to say that we are threatening the city... but how does this work exactly?

T+0: DoW, Air Bomb #1, our swords move to 2 tiles away (threatening), dG switches to archer
T+1: Air Bomb #2, our swords move to 1 tile away (threatening), dG whips archer
T+2: Air Strike, our swords capture, archer dies ignominiously (if it's WT's turnset)

T+0: DoW, Air Bomb #1, our chariots move to 4 tiles away (non-threatening), dg keeps building twerker
T+1: Air Bomb #2, our chariots move to 2 tiles away (threatening), dG switches to archer,
T+2: 1 chariot moves to 1 tile away, Air Strike, our chariots capture, archer self-immolates

 

[WastinTime]

In 20% culture cities, I like:

T+0: DoW, Air Bomb, our swords move to 1 tile away (diagonal move) (threatening)
T+1: Air Strike, capture.

could get an archer whip in any case, but my point was they won't start whipping just because we start bombing or DoW. Just another great reason for 2-movers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

XPost: previous post edited

 

[babybluepants]

In 20% culture cities, I like:

T+0: DoW, Air Bomb, our swords move to 1 tile away (diagonal move) (threatening)
T+1: Air Strike, capture.

could get an archer whip in any case, but my point was they won't start whipping just because we start bombing or DoW. Just another great reason for 2-movers.

I like that, too. The 4% culture isn’t necessarily worth a bomber turn, especially against non-PRO LB’s.

 

[LowtherCastle]

In 20% culture cities, I like:

T+0: DoW, Air Bomb, our swords move to 1 tile away (diagonal move) (threatening)
T+1: Air Strike, capture.

could get an archer whip in any case, but my point was they won't start whipping just because we start bombing or DoW. Just another great reason for 2-movers.

With Shanghai, that means from the northwest, because there's a river crossing from the southwest west. (Note: rivers omitted from Test Save!)

From Gau, swords can attack on T+3 but using your technique only on T+6 without a bunch of Renaissance roads.
From Beijing, chariots can attack on T+3 without archer whip if no archer in build on T+1.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Sword vs. 3.7/6 lbm 64.35% (city defenses 4%)
Chariot vs. 3.7/6 lbm 23.38% (cd 4%)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Kait has proposed a switch to Taoism, so we should seriously consider that because we're still building granaries. No point in wasting hammers if we're going to do it anyway. I see us building the Kremlin asap, probably in Beijing as per WT. All Beijing really needs to do before that is produce any units we want for some quick nearby captures, so that probably puts it pretty soon. If we also want a forge in Beijing before the Kremlin, all the more reason to switch to Taoism beforehand.

Food for thought.

I'm running out of time until tonight or tomorrow, so I haven't gotten as far as I had hoped.

 

[LowtherCastle]

How many workers do we need to chop the Kremlin?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I almost skipped Kremlin in my ongoing space game and now that I have it, I can't imagine playing without it, and I probably should have gotten it 45 turns sooner. I'd like to see a focus on this. I could care less about doing GLH ourselves right now. I'd like to see if we can let an AI near us build it. Maybe plan to take it out from under Roosy if he's on it. It's very special that we get to see what every city is building this early.

Totally agree on the Kremlin.

For perspective, w/Kremlin, whipping the GLH with 35% (+OR) and 60% (+forge+OR) boni:

=============
GLH pop whips
=============
pop 1.35  1.6
=== ====  ===
1     29   35h
2     59   70
3     90  107
4    120  142
5    149  177
6    180  214
7    210  249

In short, we could put a forge in Gua and easily 4 or 5whip the GLH on any given turn.