[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

It needs to make a Library before Turn 32 and work 2 scientists so we don't get a Great Spy as our first great person

Even if we have to bulb Astro, wouldn't we be fine with our first GP being a GSpy? We use it for a golden age for 100% birthrate? (and take tao if not already, and take pacifism) (and take Bureau), etc. That +200% will get us a few GS's.

And if we don't need Astro, aren't we fine with a GSpy anyway? What's better? an artist I suppose.

 

[WastinTime]

Bismarck keeps roading right across our land - it's actually pretty useful.

Yes, I've purposely given AI cities on the opposite sides of my empire. They road across and workers are easy to pick off. I'm sure more benefits we are missing. Let's not just kill everyone immediately, but there are a few nice ones we should have.

 

[babybluepants]

Sword vs. 3.7/6 lbm 64.35% (city defenses 4%)
Chariot vs. 3.7/6 lbm 23.38% (cd 4%)

I've been thinking about a couple of things:

1. Cho-ko-nu has better odds against an injured LB than sword. I guess because of the 2 first strikes? Plus it causes more collateral damage to the archers. If it survives more often, that may be 20 extra hammers well spent.

2. Even if we spend an extra turn with the bomber, bomb-strike-strike is better than bomb-bomb-strike. The LB can't heal all the way after the first strike. The increase in odds is significant, especially against PRO.
Bomb-bomb-strike (0% culture / 3.8/6.0 PRO LB):
Choko 67.02%
Sword 52.94%
Bomb-strike-strike (5% culture / 3.0/6.0 PRO LB):
Choko 87.22%
Sword 76.96%

 

[LowtherCastle]

Even if we have to bulb Astro, wouldn't we be fine with our first GP being a GSpy? We use it for a golden age for 100% birthrate? (and take tao if not already, and take pacifism) (and take Bureau), etc. That +200% will get us a few GS's.

And if we don't need Astro, aren't we fine with a GSpy anyway? What's better? an artist I suppose.

If we have to bulb Astro, don't we want it asap for galleons and TRs and network with Roosy? DOn't have to make a decision on that yet, ofc.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Note that we would also lose our trade connection when we DoW Churchill.

I don't think so. COuldn't it just go through Toku's waters?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I thought we established that it was coastal across France? In the test game, the Manchou border pop doesn't affect it.

Does that also mean the rivers through his lands, not just the coastal tiles?

 

[babybluepants]

I think that we are looking at about T35-40 for Kremlin, depending on the number of chops we're willing and able to put in. I got T36 chopping all the BFC forests and with 2x whip OF. The timing of this is decent, as we will be looking at whipping infrastructure in HK, Shanghai, and Yan/Gua around this time.

As WT keeps saying, there are some advantages to slightly delayed city captures. If we go HK first per Kait's plan, we could get Shanghai with LH and pop 5-6, then just whip something with Kremlin/OR and chop a couple of forests for an almost immediate GLH. This is circa T40.

I think we need some really careful planning in Gua. The whip timing is quite complex, as the DoW's against England and France break our resource connection.

One of the issues is that I don't think we can keep the bomber employed with just the warring. We can always use it to scout AI cities around us, but I'm wondering if we can use it another way. Maybe it can just rebase to Europe or America periodically and do more exploring.

Playing through this a bit, I would say that the AI's are definitely not expanding very well. I think they are really hampered by the distance maintenance. JC seems to be the only one building settlers, because he's not dealing with a colony.

 

[babybluepants]

I don't think so. COuldn't it just go through Toku's waters?

I think you're right, but that's not how it worked in my test file... I just don't really get this.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think you're right, but that's not how it worked in my test file... I just don't really get this.

Here's an olive to drop in your martini: If you look at both the Real and Test saves, lower right corner at all the players, only Toku has the triple arrow which says, No Trade with Toku, you have not signed an OB agreement. Why no triple arrow for dG?

Then to add a twist of lemon: Toku's the only AI we can trade resources with. Is that the reason the triple shows up?

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think you're right, but that's not how it worked in my test file... I just don't really get this.

I think that we are looking at about T35-40 for Kremlin, depending on the number of chops we're willing and able to put in. I got T36 chopping all the BFC forests and with 2x whip OF. The timing of this is decent, as we will be looking at whipping infrastructure in HK, Shanghai, and Yan/Gua around this time.

As WT keeps saying, there are some advantages to slightly delayed city captures. If we go HK first per Kait's plan, we could get Shanghai with LH and pop 5-6, then just whip something with Kremlin/OR and chop a couple of forests for an almost immediate GLH. This is circa T40.

I think we need some really careful planning in Gua. The whip timing is quite complex, as the DoW's against England and France break our resource connection.

One of the issues is that I don't think we can keep the bomber employed with just the warring. We can always use it to scout AI cities around us, but I'm wondering if we can use it another way. Maybe it can just rebase to Europe or America periodically and do more exploring.

Playing through this a bit, I would say that the AI's are definitely not expanding very well. I think they are really hampered by the distance maintenance. JC seems to be the only one building settlers, because he's not dealing with a colony.

Hmm, if we got Kremlin done by turn 40, we could give Beijing away and flush the 1st Great Spy points.
Then no rush for Great Scientist.

I also like that Choko over Sword if it will give such better odds.
Losing a Hong Kong attacker would definitely affect France attack.

Mathematically, Chokos with 10xp are a bit superior to suicide catapults.
They do 2/3rd's of the collateral damage, and with 50% withdrawl (hilltop promotion line), you are risking 30 each time instead of 50
They garrison cities and murder melee, but can't bombard down city defenses.

No idea about the trade routes.
Might want to do the 2 roads?
Or whip some warriors?

 

[babybluepants]

Here's an olive to drop in your martini: If you look at both the Real and Test saves, lower right corner at all the players, only Toku has the triple arrow which says, No Trade with Toku, you have not signed an OB agreement. Why no triple arrow for dG?

Then to add a twist of lemon: Toku's the only AI we can trade resources with. Is that the reason the triple shows up?

I've never even noticed that triple arrow before.
Looking through the test saves, I suspect it shows up when we first reveal Toku's capital. It's not there early on.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Even if we have to bulb Astro, wouldn't we be fine with our first GP being a GSpy? We use it for a golden age for 100% birthrate? (and take tao if not already, and take pacifism) (and take Bureau), etc. That +200% will get us a few GS's.

And if we don't need Astro, aren't we fine with a GSpy anyway? What's better? an artist I suppose.

Mmm, I suppose another Great Spy would be ok.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hmm, if we got Kremlin done by turn 40, we could give Beijing away and flush the 1st Great Spy points.
Then no rush for Great Scientist.

I can't even locate you with Hubble, you're so far out of my box... That's a good solution for early Oracle or SH GPs.

 

[babybluepants]

Here's an olive to drop in your martini: If you look at both the Real and Test saves, lower right corner at all the players, only Toku has the triple arrow which says, No Trade with Toku, you have not signed an OB agreement. Why no triple arrow for dG?

Then to add a twist of lemon: Toku's the only AI we can trade resources with. Is that the reason the triple shows up?

It's because we are connected to his capital. Doesn't apply to the European AI's. If you connect Shanghai to Paris in WB, you'll see the triple arrow next to DG, as well.

 

[LowtherCastle]

It's because we are connected to his capital. Doesn't apply to the European AI's. If you connect Shanghai to Paris in WB, you'll see the triple arrow next to DG, as well.

Okay, so we should maintain TRs through Toku's waters upon Chruchill DoW.

 

[babybluepants]

Okay, so we should maintain TRs through Toku's waters upon Chruchill DoW.

Yes, it should be fine.
I just realized that I was also at war with Toku when the trade was disconnected in my test.

 

[babybluepants]

I also like that Choko over Sword if it will give such better odds.
Losing a Hong Kong attacker would definitely affect France attack.

Yes, ideally we don't lose an attacker in HK, ship those two to Shanghai, and have them join 1 more sword from Gua and 1 chariot from Beijing. Or add 1 more sw/cha, whatever is available.

It would also be nice to ferry a worker over for the gems... I guess we can do that during the attack on HK.

After Shanghai, the galley can just keep going to Manchou after, landing choko+sword on the corn 1SE.

 

[babybluepants]

Hmm, if we got Kremlin done by turn 40, we could give Beijing away and flush the 1st Great Spy points.

This is interesting. If we really don't want the second GSpy, I think it's worthwhile looking into this. Maybe we can whip up an army of chokos, and OF them into Kremlin, then gift and recapture. It would be nice to gift both Beijing and Gua to DG on the same turn, right after the Shanghai capture CF.

This would require managing Beijing a bit differently. I was previously thinking iron > ivory watermill > stone. Maybe it should be iron > stone > FP watermill > rice or something. Stone asap and more food...

I can't even locate you with Hubble, you're so far out of my box...

My thought exactly!

 

[LowtherCastle]

And if we don't need Astro, aren't we fine with a GSpy anyway? What's better? an artist I suppose.

At a 5:1 ratio, a spy is worth 15,000 culture. Artists aren't really that great for us, are they? Even without TRs, it's 4:1 or 12,000. One artist to jumpstart the LC.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Chokos are pretty good for 2whipping after Kremlin, aren't they?
30*100/67*1.1=49h