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[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    What will the Shanghai slave do?
     
  2. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    It is possible to complete the Kremlin after hitting enter on T31, but it requires working Iron Mine on T30 and T31.
    A few :hammers: are lost to overflow limit when 2-pop whipping the 6/40:hammers: Sword and then producing 11:hammers: base in Beijing.

    By building the Kremlin 1 turn slower, Beijing can work more food and regrow faster.
    The whips I'm eying all happen on Turn 33.
    Do we need +2 Spy GPPs?

    Might be able to work Kremlin in Yanan for 1 turn for 12 fail:gold:. :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  3. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Okay. The Shanghai slave could go to help improve the Beijing rice and fp watermill, and so on. Sounds good. I think we should seriously consider building a pavilion in Beijing asap and growing it to work as many tiles as we can improve, running the cultural slider for happies. Unorthodox but who cares. We have it, let's use it.
     
  4. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Maybe even 16h failgold in Yanan. Did you hold growth last turn?
     
  5. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    How about:
    T31 - Archer 2W1S Manchou, Sword+Choko 2W2S of Manchou, 2 Chariots 1W2S of Manchou, 2 Chariots on Rice. Bomber blasts Iron Mine
    T32 - If LB attacks Archer, Bomb LB and kill with Sword, 2 Chariots 1E of Manchou, Choko 1W1S of Manchou, 2 Chariots 1W2S of Manchou.
    If no attack, Bomb LB and move Archer 1W1S of Manchou.
    T33 - Manchou falls, Sword promotes to City Raider I and moves to 1W of Manchou if it miraculously didn't fall :crazyeye:, 2 Chariots 1E of Manchou can grab any Workers that didn't get scared into Manchou.

    Manchou keeps 20% defenses in all scenarios.

    Ya, held growth last turn.
    2 more :food: is probably more valuable than +4:gold:

    The Shanghai slave could do a lot of help with Rice and improvements near Beijing.

    Was gonna just pre-chop near Shanghai for faster for The Great Lighthouse?
    Shanghai can do a lot of whips!
    Was thinking Library or Pavillion 2-pop whip into Forge to get borders moving, then Forge whip into TGL, followed by enough chops to finish TGL.

    If we can get that Tokyo slave, can pair it with gems worker to improve Shanghai, and the current Shanghai slave can really help in Beijing. :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  6. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Pavilions will also give us +1:) from dyes, which we should settle sooner or later.
     
  7. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Even better. Just keep watching workers with Spy, just in case they go somewhere weird, like chopping Man-NW.

    Green light from me!
     
  8. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Also with pavilion in Bejing, we could run an artist or two if we want to speed up the GP and give ourselves a chance for an early GArtist.
     
  9. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    That's Gua's fish being stolen by HK as far as I'm concerned. Gua gets it whenever required.
     
  10. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Shanghai and Gua are both great for GP spamming, if we so choose. Do we want one for a pure Artist? With Kremlin, SP and a forge, TGL whips at about 30h/pop, so that's something to consider too. Chops are useful but could be kept for AP* or something else. Partly a question of where we want to put the worker-turns right now. Later our workers might be more idle. Yanan and Beijing are desperate for wkr-ts and Mongolia, (Manchou, 2Gold) and roads west are too. You decide. I often decide based on what accelerates us the fastest right now. I think that's Beijing and Yanan.

    Pavilion pops the borders 1t sooner, unless the cultural slider helps. Library adds to our HBR beakers.

    * AP with Kremlin+SP+forge+OR whips for 18h/pop. Pretty lousy.
     
  11. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    The formula ZPV gave to me, which works all the time as far as I can tell is:

    formula: [(1 + BaseResearch)*[100+[30*KnownTeamsWTech/TeamsAtStart]+20*Prereqs]/100]
    with truncations at each square bracket [ ], three total, and BaseResearch is what you see up in the left-hand corner next to the research slider.

    This formula doesn't necessarily distinguish between zero and one AI having a tech very early in the game, btw. That's why I use a spreadsheet. For example, for a one-prereq tech like HBR in our game (9 TeamsAtStart), with our research slider at 100% and showing a BaseResearch of 19b or 20b, both zero and one AI knowing the tech yields the same answer to the formula above, whereas with BaseResearch of 18b or 21b, one AI shows +1b over zero AI.

    SG25 AIKnownTechBonusExample.jpg

    Note 1: Ignore the color coding in this image. It's clearly all messed up. Once upon a time I had it so it showed where the numbers changed in rows.

    Note 2: This spreadsheet also tells you where there are beaker jump points. For example, if you happen to know that one AI knows the tech you're researching, going from 20 to 21 BaseResearch gives you an extra beaker you don't see in the upper corner. So you could MM for an extra coin somewhere and get two beakers in return. Or if you don't necessarily want to go 100% research, you perhaps could MM and adjust the slider down from 24 to 23, because you see that you're getting jobbed a beaker at 24. (Edit: Oops, you can't see that. I'll expand the image...)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    When I say 'distance' I mean sid's distance, which means if it's off continent, then it's doubled. So with that baked-in to ourDistance...

    OurDistance > OurCulture/HisCulture*HisDistance
    (you had the culture flipped)

    Not sure about ties. Seems like the first player checked wins, so we would NOT be able to liberate to anyone if we have tied scores.
    If two AI tie then it's the first one processed. *not tested.
     
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  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I was going to say, why not settle right next to clam, but your clever way of settling means the recaptured clam city (ours would have no border pop) will have 2 forests, of which one can be handed off to the fish city. (like you said) Just pointing out how well thought out that was. :goodjob:

    I was kinda eyeing up those cities for us to just use ourselves, but I guess this is our way to get Alpha.

    I don't think the AI normally attacks empty, uninjured galleys with a single galley. Not sure how they know if it's empty (cheaters)
    It would also be a first if the AI had a unit to attack amphibiously. Normally their galleys are empty or have a settler/escort.
    Going for the fish seems most likely

    Is this because is only other city is off-continent? cus otherwise, I find the AI doesn't disband workers very often. Even if they have no escape.
     
  14. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Is Yanan still planning to build a worker?
     
  15. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Yanan is gonna do 1 turn of fail gold, then settler whip, then library.

    Mongolia is the only city scheduled to build a worker.
     
  16. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Okay, I guess that's the one I remembered. Do we need it?
     
  17. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    When and why the AI disband Workers is a mystery.
    Not even Tachwaxon's excellent "Slave Economy" guide talks about it.

    The 100% case is when the AI recaptures a Worker that the player stole.
    It is always instantly terminated.
    Workers tend to flee to the next city when it gets captured, but sometimes they get disbanded.
    Workers that flee into a city rarely get disbanded.

    I'm sure I've killed off Deity AI with 1:move: units and not 1 Worker was captured!
    I call it the Ghost Case Scenario.


    That's why, barring a woodsman 2 unit, I try to scare Workers into a city with horse units before capturing the city.
    Tend to get the most workers with the least chasing that way.
     
  18. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Yes!

    Mongolia has no good 2nd tile yet, and 11:food: turns into 59:hammers: with Kremlin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Of course they vaporize if you kill an AI. Unless you use the 'require complete kills' game option.
     
  20. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    More context, the civ had 5 Workers when the war started.
    I didn't make any effort to capture them since I had only slow units and the stiff resistance required 1 stack of doom.

    By the time I got to the last weak city, I spread out my troops to herd any workers into the last city.
    There were no workers.

    So I spread out more, but saw nothing.
    Even freshly arrived 2:move: units on neighbor's roads didn't see them.
    They must have been disbanded.

    I've also seen workers vanish that physically couldn't have run away, so I know some of them are getting disbanded.

    Many players think they just run away, and they do, but I'd swear there is a point when the AI hits the skull and crossbones button.

    I'm not crazy :ack:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018

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