[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

Green light from me on HG! How many settlers can we crank out in time for the +1 pop?

 

[WastinTime]

How about a 3rd option, Hanging Gardens in our capital?

very clever. Implies our focus on settlers right now is wise. And of course on city captures too.

I'm loving this cultural slider.

Yea, it did not dawn on me in pre-game that we'd be able to use it for happiness, and border pops, and keeping liberation cities from revolting, etc. Forgot we even had Drama for the longest time.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Your a genius!
Yes 10% culture slider is .1 culture.

I meant to get it to 1c. You're the genius. We'd have to test 0.3c or .5c (or whatever) to make sure it doesn't evaporate when we gift it.

At pop2 we can get 2t*.5cpt = 1c anyway. (10% slider)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Yea, it did not dawn on me in pre-game that we'd be able to use it for happiness, and border pops, and keeping liberation cities from revolting, etc. Forgot we even had Drama for the longest time.

I didn't even think about the happiness till I set it on 50% to pop Beijing a turn early when I handed off to Kait and then I re-opened the save and couldn't figure out how in the world Beijing had so many happies...

I think sossos thought about all of this though. Pavilions, nearby dyes, etc. It all adds up. Philosophy so we could double-bulb Astro or run Pacifism, on and on.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hm...if we finish GLH in time, then the two Toku cities with a 10% slider get

6c TRs
1c city
4c 2pop
11c total * 10% = 1.1c in 1 turn

 

[LowtherCastle]

Incidentally, I don't think Currency is all that good in this scenario. Five of the eight AIs have iMaxGoldTradePercent = 5, whereas most AIs are 10 with a couple 15 (iirc). Plus, we're currently WEs with most AIs.

 

[WastinTime]

Hm...if we finish GLH in time, t

I was just going to xpost that, but I think we're better off getting settlers first. GLH is just another distraction. We've already got HG and aqueduct added.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I was just going to xpost that, but I think we're better off getting settlers first. GLH is just another distraction. We've already got HG and aqueduct added.

Agreeance.

What about failgold on Pyramids? Bag it for now? Wait for marble and ToA instead?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Do we want to gift Roosy a mediocre city and capture Changqing?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Do we want to gift Roosy a mediocre city and capture Changqing?

We only need Open borders with Roosevelt until we get circumnavigation.

After that, we can totally gift him a new city and take Changqing.

Roosevelt needs a city on our continent so he will take gift cities later, such to form a colony.

*Edit*
Actually, we still have fog west of Paris that we can't unfog anymore.
Might be best to stop trying to get circumnavigation and just grab that Roosevelt city.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We need Roosevelt to have a city on our landmass to initiate the whole process of getting him to vassalize, right?

 

[babybluepants]

We could give him Chong back later.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We could give him Chong back later.

Duh.

I'd like to repeat: This is why we should keep Mehmed alive and on good terms with us. He'll DoW practically anyone so that we can get OBs with someone like Roosy at the end, thus enabling us to ahve a TR with our ToA city and get 1st place in Export/Import (at least theoretically).

 

[LowtherCastle]

Anything we can do to help, Kait? (Or is that a threat to discombobulate your turnset even more? )

 

[Kaitzilla]

Anything we can do to help, Kait? (Or is that a threat to discombobulate your turnset even more? )

The feedback is really good.
I'm just crossing the I's and dotting the t's right now.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I meant to get it to 1c. You're the genius. We'd have to test 0.3c or .5c (or whatever) to make sure it doesn't evaporate when we gift it.

At pop2 we can get 2t*.5cpt = 1c anyway. (10% slider)

Good news is, as soon as Toku reaches Pleased from city gifts/liberates, he will trade Alphabet.


Final testing has given a few weird results.

With no culture present, both 2 pop cities were (Liberated) to test Toku, then taken back.
It resulted in building losses, 1 pop loss, and 3 turns of revolt.

With 0.8 present, both 2 pop cities were (Liberated) to test Toku, then taken back with war.
It resulted in no building losses, 0 pop loss, and 1 turn of revolt.

With 2.4 present, only 1 city could be (Liberated), the clam city could no longer be (Liberated) , and both were taken back with war.
It resulted in no building losses, 0 pop losses, 1 turn of revolt for the (Liberated) city, and 0 turns of revolt for the clam city.


Further, the Hanging Gardens adds population instantly, so cities get whatever and and the city assigns the new citizen towards.
So "Emphasize Commerce" and "Emphasize Food" buttons actually matter.


The finalized plan is as follows:
1) When Toku is 1 turn from Alphabet, settle Clam City since it can't afford a religion spread.
Fish city can be settled once Toku is 4 turns away from Alphabet since it can tolerate more culture than Clam City.
Fish city can be settled even earlier if a Toku settler moves towards the spot. Will gamble with religion spread.
Run 10% slider, and "Emphasize Commerce" buttons in both gift cities.
Finish Hanging Gardens.
Then (Liberate) both 2 pop cities to Toku, trade for Alphabet, DOW Tokugawa.

2) We only have 1 Chariot to take back both 2 pop cities.
Clam city can be reclaimed immediately.
Fish city can be retaken 2 turns into the 2nd Toku war.
It is 1 turn before Toku can reinforce the city from Tokyo, and testing indicates the AI doesn't realize the danger from the sea, so it won't whip an Archer.
The 2nd captured city is enough to get Toku to Cease Fire in the 2nd turn of the war.

3) After the war, both cities can 1-pop whip Theatre.
1 pop whip from Hong Kong or Gua can probably produce 2 Workboats for the 2 retaken cities.
The 2 forests can be chopped to get both cities Granaries.

4) Toku's Galley or barb galleys could mess this plan up, but it is likely to work.

5) Toku can bribe other AI to DOW us with Alphabet, so we need to be prepared for that.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Let's throw in Music too. And of course Theo.
(edit: on 2nd thought, after reading bbp's post on wonders, GArtists are easy to make and we don't need Sistine, we have too many other wonders available, so drop Music.)

Alpha, Monarchy will be free leaving the following (in the somewhat prioritized order and showing some reasons):
CURRENCY (tech rate)
AESTHETICS (3 wonders)
HORSEBACK RIDING (conquest)
CALENDAR (happies?, wonder)
LITERATURE (3 wonders)
Music (seed culture, wonder)
Theology
CONSTRUCTION (bridges?)
COMPASS

With, for example, Theology alone taking 14 turns right now, tech is looking like one of the two the problem areas (along with culture). And we're just talking about classical techs! We're not getting free Mids anytime soon from the AI, so now I'm thinking it might be our #1 next goal.

How can we make use of the GS's we're likely to get if we do a mids/scientist tech strategy?
bulb Compass, Calendar, and/or Aes?
We can do that after free Alpha, but before we get Theo (or steal CS) otherwise Paper blocks us.
Calendar and Aes would normally work, but we have machinery which means Optics comes first,
so just Compass bulb

leaving 7 techs:
CURRENCY
AESTHETICS
HORSEBACK RIDING
CALENDAR
LITERATURE
Theology
CONSTRUCTION

Right, that's a good list to keep track of!

Required techs:
1) Literature 304
2) Horseback Riding 379
3) Monarchy 456
4) Aesthetics 456
5) Alphabet 456
6) Construction 531
7) Calendar 531
8) Compass 608 (Great Scientist can bulb this if we don't have Civil Service, ya)
9) Currency 608
10) Theology 760 (Need the 50+ points the AP provides for sure)

Optional
11) Feudalism 1064 (For Conquest win)
12) Music 912 (This can be bulbed by Great Artist if we have Literature, and it will produce.. another Great Artist! )

I totally agree that the AI will get Alphabet and Monarchy for us.
They always tech them, and no AI will monopolize them.
At worst, we can steal Monarchy with a gift city.

So the only techs we need to tech after Horseback Riding are:
1) Literature 304
2) Aesthetics 456
3) Construction 531
4) Calendar 531
5) Compass 608 (Great Scientist can bulb this if we don't have Civil Service, ya)
6) Currency 608
7) Theology 760 (Need the 50+ points the AP provides for sure)

With the 20% bonus for knowing Alphabet, we only need 254 + 380 + 443 + 443 + 507 + 435 + 634 base science, or 3096 from our slider.
So 78 per turn from slider for 40 turns.
With Feudalism, that is 3096 + 887 = 3983 raw science beakers from slider.
So 100 per turn from slider for 40 turns.

Any of these 7 or 8 techs the AI tech for us to steal or trade would be great!!!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Only Mehmed can be bribed to DoW at Cautious, the rest at Pleased. I assume that means someone has to be Pleased with Toku. Plus, Toku needs to be Pleased with him to trade alpha, right? Or not? I think the only likely candidates (haven't checked AI attitudes yet this turn) are JC and dG.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Looking at all the various goals, this is starting to feel like a Turn 80 game.
So if Conquest can be done by turn 80 (Horse Archers can do a lot with proper Bomber support.), and Techs can be done by Turn 80, and AP can be complete by Turn 80, and we can get 6-8 more Wonders by Turn 80;
That just leaves culture right?

I'm thinking, our 100GPP Great Spy can pop our Golden Age around T48.
That will allow us to switch to Bureau+Pacifism.
Maybe Monarchy or Representation if we got Mids.

This golden Age would let us adopt our Tao religion once we no longer care about diplo, and all the civic changes we want to do but are loathe to get turn in Anarchy.
Waiting for Calendar + MoM for 50% Golden Age might be too long to wait, because the vast 150,000 effort can't start without the Great Artist.
And I don't see the Great Artist effort happening without the Golden Age.

We want a Great Artist fast I think.
Our 3rd Great Person can be another Great Spy from Beijing.
Maybe Security Bureau in Beijing to let us get 2 Spys and a lot of passive espionage points.

So Great Artist 200GPP, and Great Spy 300GPP
Anything more is gravy, like Great Prophet bulbing Theo or making another shrine.

 

[WastinTime]

Further, the Hanging Gardens adds population instantly, so cities get whatever and and the city assigns the new citizen towards.

True, but not quite the whole story. I learned this the hard way. I had a size 1 city working a specialist. All its tiles were 1 food coastal. When it grew because of HG, it starved. That matches what you described, but it only happens in cities that are processed AFTER the HG city. (in the order on the F1 screen)
So be careful.

1 turn of revolt for the (Liberated) city, and 0 turns of revolt for the clam city.

This is normal. Turns in revolt scales down to zero as you add culture. I used to have the formula memorized. I'd have to look it up. It's simple. I've never dealt with fractional culture points tho.

AI doesn't realize the danger from the sea, so it won't whip an Archer.

Wow. OK, would not have taken that gamble. But I guess it's not a gamble if you know that's the behavior.