[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

Kaitzilla said:
Everyone wants different things!
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:D I was feeling a bit sorry for you. Then again, you asked for lots of feedback... ;)

Is tech speed our bottlneck?
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Luckily, I don't think we necessarily have to pick between your conquest idea or Religious VC yet. We can wait it out a bit and see how things play out.

Ok, how about 30%:culture: slider this turn (T33) to pop Mongolia's borders in 1 turn.
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Mongolia currently has 8.4:culture:
Then on T34, revolt to Confucianism. (We just got Manchou, a Confu city)
End the war with Japan on T35, then gift Japan 5 resources, including Iron so we can build Warriors.

Once Turn 44 rolls around, Japan will have Alphabet, and we will have +1 Fair Trade, +2 "appreciate" resources, +2 shared religion, and -3 You DoW'd us!
Gift Toku a tech like Code of Laws or Math or Metal Casting to get +4 Fair Trade, then trade another tech for Alphabet.

This 1 turn of Anarchy would allow us to save 2 cities that we wouldn't have to Liberate to Toku!
It's not as bad as it looks on the surface, because on Turn 34 we'd have 2 Settlers walking, and 2 out of 7 of our cities would still be in revolt.
Getting that plains pig right now would be nicer than giving Toku a city and waiting 15 turns for it to get that Fish?

We could then use the 2 Settlers to settle 1S1E of the Plains Pigs near Beijing, and we could also settle the Sheep+Bronze+Rice+Banana spot.
The German Archer would have to be killed before attempting Sheep+Bronze if we are at war.
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Interesting idea. Pity it has to be Confucianism. How will that play out with other AIs? We might miss out on some other trades, so it might have to be viewed as two turns of revolution, now and later. Also, don't we want multiple overseas cities anyway, for the GLH?

~~~

I try not to worry that much about the MM I see in saves in the middle of turnsets.
 
WastinTime said:
Unsightly, yes, but I don't see +1 food (and +1h) as a very high priority in this one case-- only because the city has 2 big food tiles and a good 3rd tile to work.
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I was only kidding with this one. ;)
WastinTime said:
In this area, I would settle on the silk
b) we can farm the other silk in gua and work that 'oasis' tile.
c) that farm irrigates the rice (with CS)
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I like this, and it doesn't need a border pop.
Kaitzilla said:
Then on T34, revolt to Confucianism.
This 1 turn of Anarchy would allow us to save 2 cities that we wouldn't have to Liberate to Toku!
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Are we sure he would trade Alpha in this case? If so, this is an interesting idea.
Stupid question - are we currently not able to trade resources with him because of the war, or did the Manchou capture kill the connection somehow?
Kaitzilla said:
We could then use the 2 Settlers to settle 1S1E of the Plains Pigs near Beijing, and we could also settle the Sheep+Bronze+Rice+Banana spot.
The German Archer would have to be killed before attempting Sheep+Bronze if we are at war.

Or maybe the coastal silks with the dry rice near Gua instead of Sheep+Bronze?
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I prefer the silk right now. Remind me, are we currently planning to leave Roosevelt alone, or are we taking Chong sometime soon?
 
Isn't the +2 shared religion something we have to wait for? like 10 turns? Or it's instant?
Not sure we get +4 trade for CoL either.
 
WastinTime said:
Isn't the +2 shared religion something we have to wait for? like 10 turns? Or it's instant?
Not sure we get +4 trade for CoL either.
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+1 is instant I think.
+2 we have to wait 10 turns.

If Toku had the religious capital, it would be +2 instantly.

We currently have +1 fair trade for some very odd reason, so we only need +3 more.
We can give Toku HBR if COL not enough.
 
How much war success / power rating would we need to demand Alpha in a peace treaty? Could we just give him back Manchou and a couple of other cities and recapture immediately?

Edit: nvm. I tested quickly and the threshold seems too high for us right now. I had to capture 3 cities and give myself 10 extra bombers.
 
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We seem to have gotten +1 Fair from the resource trades. Evidently they have some small Fair value that's never perceived because trades happen too late in the game. Fair Trade is dependent on turns having known the AI iirc, so CoL should easily give us +4.

Plus, with the +2 for resource trades, we only need +1 from religion to get Toku to Pleased (unless his ranking has dropped too low or something -- haven't checked that yet...)
 
Hong Kong does not liberate to Toku and never did. Not even before we had put any culture into, not even while it was still in revolt. I checked the saves. HK is 15 tiles from Yanan and 5 tiles from Tokyo. I vaguely remember something about not being able to liberate off continent to the German leader last SG. Or was that gift?

Or is that because Churchill has so much culture in it? Let me check the formula. Okay, this is obvious. CHurchill has about 23c in HK, so London would have to be ~115 tiles away to not own it.

In any case, we can't liberate it to Toku. Sheesh. Culture has a huge effect on liberation mechanics. Does that mean we can liberate Manchou? Probably. Let me check the formula.

Toku culture = ~30
Dist to Tokyo = 22*2, 30*100/44=68 -or-
30*3/2*100/44 = 102 (including the possible *3/2 factor for being original owner)

We should be able to liberate Manchou as far as I can tell.

Dist to Yanan = 12, 68*12/100=8c -or-
102*12/100=12c

We should be able to liberate Manchou even with 7c or maybe 11c. If it could be 11c, then when we capture it back it would pop borders as soon as it comes out of resistance, right?

Too valuable a city to gift, lose food in bin, etc?
 
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LowtherCastle said:
Too valuable a city to gift, lose food in bin, etc?
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No, not a bad sacrifice. Good idea. We can erase anger and get +diplo, alpha, recapture. Worth it for a loss of food.
Better, we simply don't fill the food bin. Build a settler?

Oh, but we gamble on losing the granary.
 
WastinTime said:
No, not a bad sacrifice. Good idea. We can erase anger and get +diplo, alpha, recapture. Worth it for a loss of food.
Better, we simply don't fill the food bin. Build a settler?

Oh, but we gamble on losing the granary.
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Granaries are cheap as dirt for us. Big deal if we pre-chop one. Whipping it down also shortens resistance. The only question is how to put culture in there. Maybe none. Or a couple with the slider if we'rerunning it anyway. Is better than Confu?
 
Hm...I'm not counting on being able to liberate Manchou. Neither Shanghai nor Mongolia was liberation-worthy, even with gobs of their respective culture. I don't understand the intricacies of that formula.
 
Ok, so we don't like (Liberate) and waiting 15 turns to get our island cities back, and we don't much like adopting Confucianism.

How about a 3rd option, Hanging Gardens in our capital?
Spoiler :



We currently have 34:hammers: overflow in Yanan which we can put into Aqueduct.
That gets us to 50:hammers:/100 by turn 35.
The almost perfect 2-pop whip gets us to roughly 100:hammers: / 300:hammers: for Hanging Gardens.
Add in 4 chops from 4 Workers on Turn 37, and all our cities can get +1 population on Turn 38.

Uhh, need to go slower, maybe Hanging Gardens on Turn 40 or Turn 41?
Need 2 island cities for Toku, and our Russian settler won't settle until T38 or T39 anyway.
Since those islands instantly go to Size 2, we can get Alphabet, then conquer them back fast and get busy chopping.

If we whipped Theatres at 3/50:hammers:, they could pop borders to quickly get seafood, but then (Liberate) would vanish as an option.
:hmm:

If we gave them away at Size 2 once Toku had Alpha, can we then trade for Alphabet on the same turn (maybe?), and then conquer the cities back the same turn and get Size 2 cities back?
Or would they shrink to Size 1?

If they shrink, maybe whip a granary and try to squeeze out a Warrior from the overflow if we gave Toku iron.
Hope the Granary survives reconquest.
If both cities worked the plains forests for 5 turns, could chop Theatre after 2nd Toku war over.

The 2nd Toku war might need a Choko to defend the fish city from Tokyo, hmm
That Toku galley would also be a menace again.
 
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Don't we just need more culture than he has to keep the pop2 citizen and no resistance? That could be 1 culture to his 0, right? So we could still liberate.

Toku will talk after 2t with 20 WarSuccess versus his 0.
 
LowtherCastle said:
Don't we just need more culture than he has to keep the pop2 citizen and no resistance? That could be 1 culture to his 0, right? So we could still liberate.

Toku will talk after 2t with 20 WarSuccess versus his 0.
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You're a genius!
Yes 10% culture slider is 0.3:culture:.
 
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