[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

Whip wb -- whip wkr -- whip granary -- whip chariot -- gift to Toku, DoW for slave capture and re-capture Guangzhou with no unhappiness?

Interesting option. I'd probably want to whip 1 or 2 more times before erasing anger. Not great to do granary and then fill the food bin, only to have an empty food bin after recapture, so we could just skip granary, but probably better to add the 5th and 6th whip.
Kinda depends on when we see a worker steal opportunity.

 

[WastinTime]

Don't forget we have riverside Watermills available that give +1 and +1

I did forget that. Can't recall the last time I built one. Much better than farms in this case. Especially in a golden age. Floodplains become 4f2h2c. Only harsh thing is the 8 turns it takes to build one.

Isn't there a tricky thing to watermills? Don't you have to be careful the order you build them? Cus it can only go on one side of a river or the other, but not both...unless the water turns or there is a 2nd river.

Bejing a little food challenged and should get the 1st watermill. (not sure I'd even bother with the dry rice.)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Interesting option. I'd probably want to whip 1 or 2 more times before erasing anger. Not great to do granary and then fill the food bin, only to have an empty food bin after recapture, so we could just skip granary, but probably better to add the 5th and 6th whip.
Kinda depends on when we see a worker steal opportunity.

Yes, granary could be the last whip.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Isn't there a tricky thing to watermills? Don't you have to be careful the order you build them? Cus it can only go on one side of a river or the other, but not both...unless the water turns or there is a 2nd river.

Ya, there is a trick.
Whenever you put a Watermill into the L bend of a river, it can randomly pick if it has 2 choices.
The trick is to build the Watermills in an order so that they always have only 1 choice.

That keeps a Watermill from accidentally taking up 2 places, and have to pillage it and start again.
2S1W of our capital is a good example.

Spoiler :

Put a Watermill there, and it grabs the river to the right, then you can't put a Watermill 2S of the capital.
But if you build a Watermill 2S of the capital first, then build another 2S1W of the capital, there won't be any bad surprises.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes, granary could be the last whip.

yea, but not if we're going to grow and whip 6 things. Then we want it 2nd or 3rd.

either way, I think wb first is locked in, right? Don't forget we also get 2c on the fish.
So we could play on until we have to decide on next build.

 

[Kaitzilla]

yea, but not if we're going to grow and whip 6 things. Then we want it 2nd or 3rd.

either way, I think wb first is locked in, right? Don't forget we also get 2c on the fish.
So we could play on until we have to decide on next build.

I still like Worker 1st, whip Granary, chop Workboat.
We could march the Worker after Rice Farm north starting Turn 21 up through Roosevelt's city to help the capital build Watermills.

The slower whip anger would let us whip Galley and a few Swords before city gift, and the Archer on the Galley could take the city back same turn instead of a weak Chariot.

If you guys insist on Workboat first, that's fine.
You all are better at early game then me.
I really want that Hong Kong as fast as possible.

 

[WastinTime]

I still like Worker 1st, chop Workboat.

I guess we need a study on this then. This option would want to be at size 2 minimum ASAP after the worker whip. Corn+fish could be powerful. Not sure I like chopping our only forest but at least it's not pre-math.

But if you build a Watermill 2S of the capital first, then build another 2S1W of the capital, there won't be any bad surprises.

yep, exactly how I remember it.

Hey! how about this idea...
Since Bejing is (slightly) food-challenged if you ignore the rice, what about a couple Elephant-Watermills? We can only use so much Ivory. And +1f1h is better than +1h1c in my book. Just comes down to all those worker turns.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Isn't a gspy unkillable? Barbs can't touch it, right? It can explore Japan, etc. with closed borders (as if we need that with our bomber)
It can't get caught in their land, right?

Great Spy is invincible ya.

what about a couple Elephant-Watermills? We can only use so much Ivory. And +1f1h is better than +1h1c in my book. Just comes down to all those worker turns.

Ohhhhh, that sounds wonderful.

************
Since Aggressive AI is off, how do we stop the war with Japan before Alphabet?
Deity AI are nothing to sneeze at if you get stuck at war with them 20 turns and they whip something nasty.

Bomber recon:

I did some testing, and it looks like the bomber recon mission reveals an 11x11 tile square centred on the recon mission tile. This can be performed on any tile in the mega-BFC that is visible when the recon mission is selected.

It seems to me that the most efficient recon pattern is 4 consecutive recon missions from one base: 5N5E, 6S5E, 6S6W, 5N6W. This reveals 22x22 tiles exactly, centred on the tile 1S1W of the base. If we can rebase to a city that is exactly 22 tiles west of the first base, we can rinse a repeat for 4t and reveal another 22x22. That is 44x22 tiles revealed in 9t.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good.

We need to find any nearby unclaimed city sites that have anything good, then check AI capitals so we can spy on them building Wonders, then start searching for Workers to enslave once Chariots and defensive Chokonus become available.

I think stacking Kremlin and getting 2 more GSpys from that one city should be good. We could even live with just 1 more GSpy.
Kinda depends on if our top secret EP plan works out.

I'm not worried about Great Spies at all.
We have Intelligency Agencies available right now, and they allow 2 Spy Specialists.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm tempted to watermill the southern silk tile later too. Epsecially after that city has to share food with HongKong.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Builders. When are you folks planning to end this game? I'd like to know if we're planning to do a wonderbread, massive conquest or what? I see this game ending really, really fast.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Builders. When are you folks planning to end this game? I'd like to know if we're planning to do a wonderbread, massive conquest or what? I see this game ending really, really fast.

It's true, the Bomber, Stone, and Marble have made my eyes glaze over.

Any thoughts on the Great Prophet?
Shrine or Golden Age seems the strongest use, unless we want to build AP or Hagia for our Workers.

If we are doing Shrine, we need to carefully march the GP north to the capital starting now before barbs can kill it

 

[WastinTime]

Since Aggressive AI is off, how do we stop the war with Japan before Alphabet?

LC is an expert at knowing exactly when they will talk/cease fire. I find that if you take a city (like the easy empty city recapture), they talk next turn and cease fire due to the war success. It's all about not losing any battles.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Watermill: 8t on plains/grass; 10t on flood plains

 

[WastinTime]

I'd like to know if we're planning to do a wonderbread,

probably only if we need astro. I imagine we need it for conquest, but not for domination.
The Civil Ministry wants us to kill 'em all tho. Being the only civ left also boosts several other categories.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Watermill: 8t on plains/grass; 10t on flood plains

10 turns, UGH.
That's like 2 farms, or 2.5 chops.

 

[WastinTime]

10 turns, UGH.

yea, I think aggressive worker stealing is the main early focus. We can do the anger-erase-city-gift tactic to get war success and quick cease fires. Should keep us from having to worry about a longbow going on the attack.

Is there anyone we want to keep good diplo relations with? All this warring could put us in rough shape. i.e. do we eventually need someone to vote for us? or not worry about that.

 

[LowtherCastle]

It's true, the Bomber, Stone, and Marble have made my eyes glaze over.

Any thoughts on the Great Prophet?
Shrine or Golden Age seems the strongest use, unless we want to build AP or Hagia for our Workers.

Like you, I'm at sea with all these choices. My anchor is knowing our strategy.

10 turns, UGH.
That's like 2 farms, or 2.5 chops.

Farm is 7t on fp. Watermill is better.

 

[WastinTime]

There are 18 cities, right? barbs won't invade until there are over 24, right?
And won't the existing barb population keep any from spawning? Or does that barb population need to be on our landmass to prevent spawning? Bomber: Let's find those barbs!

 

[LowtherCastle]

yea, I think aggressive worker stealing is the main early focus. We can do the anger-erase-city-gift tactic to get war success and quick cease fires. Should keep us from having to worry about a longbow going on the attack.

Is there anyone we want to keep good diplo relations with? All this warring could put us in rough shape. i.e. do we eventually need someone to vote for us? or not worry about that.

Question is, where will the workers be? My understanding is that the only Diplo election we need to have is leader, right?

I assume we want good relations for trading early techs and for the guy we use for our cultural city, and maybe Mehmed to bribe into wars against that guy.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Another use for our Great Spy is Scotland Yard in the capital.

Normally, that would be a silly waste of resources because of the fat +3000 infiltration.

BUT

We have Intelligence Agency available. (For only a slightly staggering 180)
If we build one in the capital along with Scotland Yard, then we will instantly get +25 per turn thanks to +150% bonus and +10 from buildings.

That means any AI's tech path will be visible for us the entire game.
City revolts will be meaningless due to bomber, but we can steal entire Deity AI treasuries from civs that go down to 1 city.

**Edit**

Huh, Scotland Yard is not a Wonder.
But a Religious Shrine IS and wonder and would give us +4 Points at the end of the game.
http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_wonders_in_Civ4