Mitchum
Deity
The only downside would be if a wb scooted around the south shore while the chariot is scouting the north shore. It would really delay how long it takes to meet them. But I'm fine scouting more with the chariot.
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
The only downside would be if a wb scooted around the south shore while the chariot is scouting the north shore. It would really delay how long it takes to meet them. But I'm fine scouting more with the chariot.
LowtherCastle
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How much does it cost us to meet the other AIs:
- T110?
- T120?
- T130?
- T84?
- T94?
Mitchum
Deity
Very dramatic. I like it. Haha
Now that WT is letting us build monuments and workers, maybe we can slip in a wb, a few courthouses and 7 forges.
I agree that a wb exploring SE is a good idea and paper maps don't let you automagically meet the AI on said maps so I'd like to see Canal build one but after the worker whip + OF into Mids. That's in the next turnset.
Now that WT is letting us build monuments and workers, maybe we can slip in a wb, a few courthouses and 7 forges.
I agree that a wb exploring SE is a good idea and paper maps don't let you automagically meet the AI on said maps so I'd like to see Canal build one but after the worker whip + OF into Mids. That's in the next turnset.
Mitchum
Deity
I plan to play in about 2 hours.
LowtherCastle
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Dramatic, yes, haha, maybe not. I’m actually nerfing the drama, considering the wb would be starting from the far eastern end of an 84-tile map. Could take up to 50 or more turns to meet all AIs.
Put another way, we’re not gambling on the 500h Pyramids but are on the 30h wb.
Good luck.
LowtherCastle
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Just to elaborate a bit on the gamble: The equifinality of CIV occurs in the mid-game tech trading with AIs. Jumping out to a tech lead at the expense of empire development can backfire if you have to wait for AIs to catch up.
PR clearly got an empire development advantage on us by settling Clams(?) T5/6. They apparently teched Writing in the 50s enabling earlier exploration of SB land. They might have popped a GS in tge 70s and bulbed Philo in the 80s (+5
).
We have a chance to regain some advantage by trading for Philo, but we need Alpha. In delaying meeting AIs we’re gambling on getting Alpha from either SB or Peter, instead of having several AIs who could get it for us.
PR clearly got an empire development advantage on us by settling Clams(?) T5/6. They apparently teched Writing in the 50s enabling earlier exploration of SB land. They might have popped a GS in tge 70s and bulbed Philo in the 80s (+5
). We have a chance to regain some advantage by trading for Philo, but we need Alpha. In delaying meeting AIs we’re gambling on getting Alpha from either SB or Peter, instead of having several AIs who could get it for us.
Mitchum
Deity
Yes. Maps only get us so far. And knowing another AI could be the difference between getting a tech for free vs. self researching it.
The question is whether we can wait three turns to get a wb out of Canal or whether we want to send Clam City's wb onward and replace it with another from Cows, Clams or Canal.
Said another way, the wb in Clam City right now is NOT game changing and sending it on as a scout will NOT hurt Clam City so much that it will drastically affect our end date. Meeting an AI many turns sooner could drastically affect our end date.
I'm 100% fine with sending this wb onward. I think Kait suggested the same.
EDIT: xpost with LC
The question is whether we can wait three turns to get a wb out of Canal or whether we want to send Clam City's wb onward and replace it with another from Cows, Clams or Canal.
Said another way, the wb in Clam City right now is NOT game changing and sending it on as a scout will NOT hurt Clam City so much that it will drastically affect our end date. Meeting an AI many turns sooner could drastically affect our end date.
I'm 100% fine with sending this wb onward. I think Kait suggested the same.
EDIT: xpost with LC
We can get a caravel over there before that.
Mitchum
Deity
I plan to wait for the rest of the team to weigh in.
MG seemed to want to explore too but he suggested we scout the eastern coast of SB. If we send the wb, I'd prefer to have it beeline the channel and meet the AI and have the chariot explore the east coast on it's way back north.
MG seemed to want to explore too but he suggested we scout the eastern coast of SB. If we send the wb, I'd prefer to have it beeline the channel and meet the AI and have the chariot explore the east coast on it's way back north.
LowtherCastle
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Bearing in mind we want Alpha before SB or Peter gets Philo so we can get them to Friendly and trade for Philo before either starts the wonder build.
Mitchum
Deity
Are you sure? Weren't we hoping to get a few of the techs leading to Optics in trade? From which AI? The more AI we know the better chance we can get the techs. Plus, after Currency we'll be teching Paper + Education prior to Optics so that's many turns away.
LowtherCastle
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ETA for Optics?
Mitchum
Deity
To LC's point, isn't a 30H wb worth the chance that we meet additional AI sooner and get a tech (or five) in trade many turns sooner?
I still vote for Paper, but if I'm out-voted then the only option I can stomach is putting the worker/Mids OF in Canal into a wb.
I don't want less pop and more anger in Canal T95, although anger is probably not an issue.
One more pop (sci) during our 10t caste is 75
(w/ library)
+60g in Mids could pay for 1 turn of research (I think we are -56gpt) However, that gold is meaningless if we can generate plenty more in Moai/UoS.
Mids should pay for 20 turns. Now it would only be 19 turns.
I don't want less pop and more anger in Canal T95, although anger is probably not an issue.
One more pop (sci) during our 10t caste is 75
(w/ library)+60g in Mids could pay for 1 turn of research (I think we are -56gpt) However, that gold is meaningless if we can generate plenty more in Moai/UoS.
Mids should pay for 20 turns. Now it would only be 19 turns.
LowtherCastle
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Another angle: In this scenario, when fo you suppose the first AI will tech Alpha? When is the last date we need it to avoid teching Philo ourselves?
I'm happy to send our workboat down as fast as possible.
I'm sure we can replace it fairly soon.
Where exactly the wb is going can be decided next turnset.
I still think Clams whipping a wb replacement T93 is the best solution.
The city loses 14 food compared to netting seafood at border pop t88, but clam city has no anger problems and I want that 60 gold in canal from the worker whip.
I'm sure we can replace it fairly soon.
Where exactly the wb is going can be decided next turnset.
I still think Clams whipping a wb replacement T93 is the best solution.
The city loses 14 food compared to netting seafood at border pop t88, but clam city has no anger problems and I want that 60 gold in canal from the worker whip.
LowtherCastle
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i’m not interested in outvoting you. I’m looking for a rational, convincing solution for all.I still vote for Paper, but if I'm out-voted then the only option I can stomach is putting the worker/Mids OF in Canal into a wb.
I don't want less pop and more anger in Canal T95, although anger is probably not an issue.
One more pop (sci) during our 10t caste is 75
60g could pay for 1 turn of research (I think we are -56gpt) However, that gold is meaningless if we can generate plenty more in Moai/UoS.
Mids should pay for 20 turns. Now it would only be 19 turns.
LowtherCastle
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Which is why I ask questions from different angles, to put as much perspective on this question as possible. In other words, how much do we stand to lose if we fail to get Philo in trade? And when are we likely to fail like that?
LowtherCastle
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Another angle: how much do we actually gain from the worker? Per turn? If he has to travel to the somewhat distant chops over by SB and chop those unenculturated tiles, what are we getting, two or three hammers per turn?
LowtherCastle
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The wb is a 1whip, the twerker, a 2whip. I think I just saved us a pop...One more pop (sci) during our 10t caste is 75
+60g in Mids could pay for 1 turn of research (I think we are -56gpt).
You’re welcome.
