I don't like Whales at only 9 health, but there's no reason to finish Parthenon before Banking.
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ah, makes sense.
Maybe just cus we might have Banking 125 doesn't mean we should do the GAges.
Maybe I'm putting too much importance on Biology/NatPark.
If we get that 10t faster we get ~4 food, total, empire-wide for the farms that likely survived.
NP gives at least 6 free sci.
But, by spending 10t extra setting up our empire, we can get the whole package Bio, 1 turn later, Sushi.
Putting up a university 30t sooner = 450
per city (in most cities)
I would suggest forges first to get big things like ch, uni. However, we just can't have -1 food before the GAges in our big cities.
Hmm. Can we get Wheat T135? OMG
Yes, easily. Kait's test shows T133 wheat.
Ok, now I'm thinking (some) Forges. If you're gonna whip 12 population, a forge is free.
This is hard. I'll look at the test game some more.
We're talking Sushi T155 or sooner.
Maybe I'm putting too much importance on Biology/NatPark.
If we get that 10t faster we get ~4 food, total, empire-wide for the farms that likely survived.
NP gives at least 6 free sci.
But, by spending 10t extra setting up our empire, we can get the whole package Bio, 1 turn later, Sushi.
Putting up a university 30t sooner = 450
per city (in most cities)I would suggest forges first to get big things like ch, uni. However, we just can't have -1 food before the GAges in our big cities.
Hmm. Can we get Wheat T135? OMG
Yes, easily. Kait's test shows T133 wheat.Ok, now I'm thinking (some) Forges. If you're gonna whip 12 population, a forge is free.
This is hard. I'll look at the test game some more.
We're talking Sushi T155 or sooner.
Oh, I forgot we can't even start a forge for ~10t
Wheat is a big deal. It means our big cities can go for more like size 12 instead of 10 or 11.
Having 2 more pop to work a coast tile (6c during GAge) is way better than a Temple (+3) with Sankore, lib, univ.
So, no reason to make any Temples before the GAge.
Canal with 3 more population (working the coast) gets +6 or (+9 during GAges). That's better than it's 3-pop courthouse making only +4.
No ch here.
The CH's in Whales and Silver at least do +6 or +7 each.
Having 2 more pop to work a coast tile (6c during GAge) is way better than a Temple (+3
) with Sankore, lib, univ.So, no reason to make any Temples before the GAge.
Canal with 3 more population (working the coast) gets +6 or (+9 during GAges). That's better than it's 3-pop courthouse making only +4.
No ch here.
The CH's in Whales and Silver at least do +6 or +7 each.
fyi, Zara settled wheat in the test game.
Crap!
I tried with the forges going 100% slider after Education to start forges on T111, but we just burn up all our money right as we get Oxford.
Even skipped the turn for espionage.
The math just gets too crazy trying to shoehorn Forges in with the Maoi making everything crazy. We don't really want to whip forges with overflow, but Moai wants nothing but overflow!
Maybe if we did Metal Casting in 3 turns and delayed Education?
I'll post the micro I used to make comparison testing easier.Maybe just cus we might have Banking 125 doesn't mean we should do the GAges.
Maybe I'm putting too much importance on Biology/NatPark.
If we get that 10t faster we get ~4 food, total, empire-wide for the farms that likely survived.
NP gives at least 6 free sci.
But, by spending 10t extra setting up our empire, we can get the whole package Bio, 1 turn later, Sushi.
Putting up a university 30t sooner = 450
I would suggest forges first to get big things like ch, uni. However, we just can't have -1 food before the GAges in our big cities.
Hmm. Can we get Wheat T135? OMG
Ok, now I'm thinking (some) Forges. If you're gonna whip 12 population, a forge is free.
This is hard. I'll look at the test game some more.
We're talking Sushi T155 or sooner.
The Maoi is what makes my turnset a real headache!
Ya, Canal City can ditch the Courthouse, but I like being able to work 1 Spy and 2 Scientists later.
If we replace Courthouse with Forge, could run 1 Engineer and 2 Scientists.
Test Game indicates we could have a 54% Spy, 33.5% Scientist, 7.5% Artist, 6% Engineer if we ran 1 engineer and 2 scientist for 4 turns.
Techs
T105 - Education 100% (548
-82) +178 Education@ 715/2808T106 - Education 100%, (466
-87) +193 Education@ 2576/2808 Great Scientist bulbs for 1647T107 - Metal Casting 0% (379
+51)T108 - Metal Casting 0% (430
+47)T109 - 100%
slider on Peter (477 -63) +126T110 - Metal Casting 100% (414
-62) +157T111 - Metal Casting 100% (352
-64) +201 Metal Casting@ 192/702T112 - Metal Casting 100% (288
-64) +210 Metal Casting@ 434/702T113 - Metal Casting 100% (224
-64) +208 Metal Casting@ 687/702T114 - Machinery 100% (163
-65) +204 Machinery@ Overflow/1092T115 - Machinery 100% (98
-65) +214 Machinery@ 480/1092Workers
Cowboy
T105 - Chop forest 2E of Whale City to complete missionary
T106 - Move to forest 2S2W of Silver City
T107 - T110 Chop forest
T111 - Move to forest 1S2E of Whale City
T112 - T113 Chop forest
T114 - Chop forest and STOP!
Heretic
T106 - Finish Mine 2S1E of Canal City
T107 - T109 Move to forest 2N2W of Canal City
T110 - T113 Chop forest
T114 - Move to forest 4N1E of Science City to chop for Sankore
Phillip
T105 - Road 2S1E of deer tile to complete New Deer Road
T106 - Chop forest 2S1E of deer tile
T107 - Chop forest and STOP!
T108 - T109 Chop forest 3S1W of Science City into Oxford
T110 - Cottage 1W of Science City and STOP!
Joan Dark
T105 - Move to forest plain hill 3S2W of Science City
T106 - T108 Chop forest into University
T109 - Chop forest 4S2W of Science City into Oxford
T110 - Chop forest 4S3W of Science City into Oxford
Shepherd
T106 - T107 Road 1W of Science City
T108 - Chop forest 3S1W of Science City and STOP!
T109 - Chop forest 1S1E of deer tile into Oxford
T110 - Chop forest 4S3W of Science City into Oxford
Rex
T105 - T108 Chop forest 4S1W of Science City into University
T109 - Move to jungle gems
T110 - T111 Road jungle gems
Cities
Science City
T105 - Temple; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsforest
T106 - Temple; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsfarm, Plainsforest
T107 - University; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsfarm, Plainsforest
T108 - 4-pop Whip University; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, Plainsriverfarm (2 Chops land)
T109 - Oxford (goes to 335/400
); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x2 Plainsriverfarm (3 Chops land)T110 - Oxford completes (goes to 401/400
); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x2 Plainsriverfarm (1 Chop lands)T111 - Sankore; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x2 Plainsriverfarm
T112 - T115 Sankore; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Wine, x3 Plainsriverfarm
Cow City
T105 - Sankore (goes to 18/550
); Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, TundrafurT106 - Monastery; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, Tundrafur, Plainshillfur
T107 - Monastery; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, x2 Coast
T108 - Complete Warrior; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, x2 Coast
T109 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, Plainshillfur
T110 - Maoi (goes to 229/250
); Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, PlainshillfurT111 - University; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, Coast
T112 - T113 University; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, x2 Coast
T114 - Forge; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, x3 Coast
T115 - 3-pop Whip Forge; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm
Canal City
T105 - Wealth; x2 Clam, Crab, x2 Coast, x2 Scientist
T106 - Wealth; x2 Clam, Crab, x3 Coast, x2 Scientist
T107 - Maoi (goes to 160/250
); x2 Clam, Crab, x5 CoastT108 - Courthouse; x2 Clam, Crab, x5 Coast, Mine
T109 - 4-pop Whip Courthouse; x2 Clam, Crab, Coast, Mine
T110 - University (goes to 45/200
); x2 Clam, Crab, x2 Coast, MineT111 - Monastery; x2 Clam, Crab, x4 Coast
T112 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; x2 Clam, Crab, x2 Coast
T113 - Moai (goes to 245/250
); x2 Clam, Crab, x3 Coast (1 Chop lands)T114 - University; x2 Clam, Crab, x3 Coast, Mine
T115 - University; x2 Clam, Crab, x4 Coast
T116 - 4-pop Whip University; x2 Clam, Crab, Coast
Clam City
T105 - Moai (goes to 92/250
); x2 Clam, x3 CoastT106 - Library; x2 Clam, x3 Coast
T107 - Library; x2 Clam, x3 Coast, Mine
T108 - Library; x2 Clam, x2 Coast, Mine, Plainsfarm
T109 - 3-pop Whip Library; x2 Clam, Mine
T110 - Wealth; x2 Clam, x2 Coast
T111 - Moai (goes to 177/250
); x2 Clam, x2 Coast, MineT112 - Monastery; x2 Clam, Coast, Mine, Plainsfarm
T113 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; x2 Clam, Mine
T114 - Moai (goes to 240/250
); x2 Clam, Mine, PlainsfarmT115 - Wealth?; x2 Clam, x2 Coast
Profit City
T105 - T106 Monastery (goes to 22/60
); Crab, Whale, Stone, CoastT107 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; Crab, Whale, Stone
T108 - Moai (goes to 140/250
); Crab, Whale, x2 CoastT109 - T110 Library; Crab, Whale, x2 Coast (Don't go above 4/90
on Library!)T111 - T112 Warrior; Crab, Whale, x3 Coast
T113 - 3-pop Whip Library + store in queue // 1-pop Whip and Produce Warrior; Crab, Whale
T114 - Produce Library; Crab, Stone
T115 - Moai Completes (goes to 254/250
); Crab, Whale, StoneSilver City
T105 - T106 Confu Missionary; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, Silvermine, x4 Coast
T107 - 2-pop Whip Missionary; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, x4 Coast
T108 - 4-pop Whip Courthouse; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, Coast
T109 - Moai (goes to 218/250
); Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, Silvermine, CoastT110 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam (1 Chop lands)
T111 - University (goes to 58/200
); Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, CoastT112 - University; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, x2 Coast
T113 - University; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, x3 Coast
T114 - 4-pop Whip University; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam
T115 - Dun; Deer, x2 Crab, Clam, Coast
Whale City
T105 - Missionary; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine (1 Chop lands)
T106 - Moai (goes to 159/250
); x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine, FurT107 - Courthouse; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine, Coast
T108 - 3-pop Whip Courthouse; x2 Crab, Clam
T109 - Monastery; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse
T110 - Monastery; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Coast
T111 - 2-pop Whip Monastery; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse
T112 - Moai (goes to 228/250
); x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, CoastT113 - Dun; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Coast
T114 - T115 Dun; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, x2 Coast
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For the most part, I like thru 108 (with the already agreed removal of ch in Canal)
Is it really that important to chop the missionary when we only need 1 hammer?
105 add Fur
106-107: no fur no silver, just food + horse. Or if you need to get to Edu, do silver T106.
Is it really that important to chop the missionary when we only need 1 hammer?
105 add Fur
106-107: no fur no silver, just food + horse. Or if you need to get to Edu, do silver T106.
It is more like a chop into Maoi than Missionary.
But I like working the 5
clam more than fur on T105 ya.This chop also frees up the Dun Trick -> Library 3-pop whip later into a huge overflow waterfall for Parthenon.
Putting Whale City Maoi overflow on T106 and T112 is very nice for the other cities too.
We could run 20% slider with our spare 33
on T108 to get Forges at the start of T113 now that I look.The missing money from Courthouse in Canal could be taken from Sitting Bull in trades.
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but you get +5 food and the next turn you lose -4 food working silver+fur. Just do it without the chop.But I like working the 5
How does the chop help the Dun trick?
-------------------------------
I know you're trying to do a perfectly filled Moai, but if they are a bit short it's fine.
Running out of $$ is not an issue, but every turn we delay the GAges beyond T130, I would estimate that directly delays Bio/NatPark and Sushi due to the dependency on GS births.
It's 20t to Sushi, so T130-T150
T134 - T154., etc.
So we should aim get to our minimum acceptable population by T130. Grow 1-2 extra if there's time.
If time is running out to get up to size, then we do stuff like 2-whip (no OF) vs 3-whip (max OF)
Sacrifice failgold to get the size we need for GAge #1.
Hammers for Moai are coming from Monastery and chop in my plan.
Without the chop, they have to come from Monastery and Library? Missionary?
I don't really like 1-pop whips on missionary.
Using Library means we can't team it up with Dun and then store both overflows while chops land in Wealth.
Basically, there needs to be 2 separate overflows in Whale City to give us a nice amount of Moai gold.
I hate running out of money when we have Oxford.
What if we decide we want Music, but can't reach Music + Banking because we did not make enough Maoi gold?
Working that fur instead of Clam is also -3
since we are 1 pop smaller when we bulb education.The silver and fur are worked for Maoi on T106 for commerce just as much as Maoi fail gold.
Education is really tight.
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OK, I also was trying to watch that we don't run out of $$ before Banking (possible Music), so go ahead and chop. The worker is standing right there after all.
That's the forest that already re-grew. Maybe we get a grandchild tree.
But, I still kinda want 2 forests there for the GAges, I think Parthenon can be done with 1 forest as long as we have til 130 instead of 126 or something.
That's the forest that already re-grew. Maybe we get a grandchild tree.
But, I still kinda want 2 forests there for the GAges, I think Parthenon can be done with 1 forest as long as we have til 130 instead of 126 or something.
So do 108 Monast or Uni in Canal and I think we're good for 4 turns.
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LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,750
If another AI completes ToA we should watch for massive failgold from Peter and be prepared to trade for it.
Nah, not a good forge city.
Isn't monastery and 5 pop whip Uni enough for that city to be doing?
Are you just trying to find an OF for Moai? Do a spy? and run counter espionage on SB. Or just having it in the city can help catch spies, right?
As the spy city, Canal needs a courthouse before we can win the game.
I'll give it some more thought.
Ya, a spy in the city is very useful when SB starts sending them.
Mitchum
Deity
Aren't we working specialists and not coastal tiles during a Golden Age though?Wheat is a big deal. It means our big cities can go for more like size 12 instead of 10 or 11.
Having 2 more pop to work a coast tile (6c during GAge) is way better than a Temple (+3
So, no reason to make any Temples before the GAge.
Canal with 3 more population (working the coast) gets +6 or (+9 during GAges). That's better than it's 3-pop courthouse making only +4.
No ch here.
The CH's in Whales and Silver at least do +6 or +7 each.
I'm talking about extra citizens, We can only run 6-8 sci (plus 1 from merc) in each city as food allows. Extras work the coast.
That does make it more attractive. Every city has to have a ch by the time we have sushi spread there. If we can fit it in and get up to size by T130-ish maybe it's still on.
It does pay for itself.
