[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

and we know it puts us at -8 vs -7gpt based on the test game? or paper calcs?

Test game is showing it really is an -8 per turn vs. -7 per turn choice.
The closer city bumps the maintenance up to -8 per turn when it reaches Size 2.

 

[WastinTime]

btw. Biology is not looking very useful. We can't farm most of the sites we see. IIRC, freshwater tundra can be farmed, but it doesn't spread irrigation, right?
We do have a 9 or 10 forest national park, but we may have to chop it for Mids.

 

[WastinTime]

because of the forests, We know exactly where SB's scout was on T2, so his capital should be close.
But protective, with castle? when could we even take that city? T80? 90? Probably using a spy to revolt the city.
And then we start with a size 1 city instead of the usual free granary, size 5 or whatever.
Yuck. the turtle idea is looking better and better.
I'm eyeing up ClamCrab for Engineer city. It could build mids in 20 turns or less. We don't need stone/marble this game. It's only a few wonders.
The question is go with what we see, or get sailing/galleys and hope to improve. How much better could it possibly get? (without mapmaker intervention)
...done rambling...for now.

 

[Kaitzilla]

btw. Biology is not looking very useful. We can't farm most of the sites we see. IIRC, freshwater tundra can be farmed, but it doesn't spread irrigation, right?
We do have a 9 or 10 forest national park, but we may have to chop it for Mids.

because of the forests, We know exactly where SB's scout was on T2, so his capital should be close.
But protective, with castle? when could we even take that city? T80? 90? Probably using a spy to revolt the city.
And then we start with a size 1 city instead of the usual free granary, size 5 or whatever.
Yuck. the turtle idea is looking better and better.
I'm eyeing up ClamCrab for Engineer city. It could build mids in 20 turns or less. We don't need stone/marble this game. It's only a few wonders.
The question is go with what we see, or get sailing/galleys and hope to improve. How much better could it possibly get? (without mapmaker intervention)
...done rambling...for now.

Our Cow city could also get Mids done.
It has enough plain hills.

No Biology?
This map is so weird, not much of my experience is helping.

How about a trade route empire with TGL, harbors, and custom houses?
Or maybe Colossus and avoiding Astro is the way to go? ​

 

[MirrorGuard]

I guess the 3 jungles are not edited, given that our cities are very near to the equator. The shortage of land food in the starting location might be just a result of " heavily edited". It's a bit too early to give up on biology.
btw it's aggressive AI. we might need some soldiers to lower the risk especially when we settle near SB.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We see roughly 150 tiles. Unknown amount more nearby offshore that are “ours.” That’s already more than our share. How realistic is it that we will even have a chance at sites in distant lands? Without warring that is.

 

[WastinTime]

How about a trade route empire with TGL, harbors, and custom houses?
Or maybe Colossus and avoiding Astro is the way to go?

Since we eventually need Astro, I'm thinking Colossus is out. I wouldn't mind getting +24gpt with TGL for say --100 turns (til Corporation)?
That's 'only' 2400 gold, but the important thing is it's early gold.
2-3 problems (at least): dirty gene pool and blocks Eiffel, so MassMedia required. Those 2 cost us probably 6,000+ . Also blocks UN, so only victories left are religious and conquest.

 

[WastinTime]

I woke up with an endgame plan: Kill em all.
After the tech trades dry up, and we go Mercantilism, the AI is useless, we get Cuirassiers (which ignore Castles). Go out and gather conquer gold. We get more gold for older cities. We need Astro anyway, so we should be able to reach everyone (barring an ice castle.)
We're in no rush, like usual, to conquer and get the city working on our side since everything razes. That means we can have a small, cheap, but efficient army.
Having some warring in our big picture plan could save us from a religious loss. We don't need the UN (or MassMedia) or AP. We don't need to keep voters happy. It also means: No Fascism for the GG. We can get WestPoint without it. And, we can end the game on any turn we like instead of timing the voting.

 

[WastinTime]

btw, an ice castle would cost us : Railroad, Combustion, Flight, Rifling, and Fascism (for paratroopers)
Actually, it would be game over, right? cus we can't get a city close enough to drop in (unless we find the ice castle close by)
Or can you paradrop from a boat? probably. I don't recall

Reminder: if we do Oracle + TGL, we have no other way to win except Conquest.

 

[WastinTime]

Back to short term plans:
AH, Myst, (pottery?) Sailing (plant cities #4 & #5)
Sailing gives us +5 instantly and only costs 156 which means it would actually shorten our Alpha beeline.
We get an early galley and settle off-shore for another +7 to trade routes! with city #6 (still pre-alpha)
- we get cities 6 and 7 settled and working much sooner.
- Alpha is even earlier now (if we go for Alpha)
- we can delay the decision to go Alpha or not.
- we get lighthouses (super early TGL? (needs mining/masonry tho)

 

[LowtherCastle]

btw, an ice castle would cost us : Railroad, Combustion, Flight, Rifling, and Fascism (for paratroopers)
Actually, it would be game over, right? cus we can't get a city close enough to drop in (unless we find the ice castle close by)
Or can you paradrop from a boat? probably. I don't recall

Reminder: if we do Oracle + TGL, we have no other way to win except Conquest.

Cultural...

I was about to ask, with an ice castle ai we can’t meet, can we still win with either AP or UN?

In other words, can we be forced to win by cultural? (or space)

 

[WastinTime]

I think you auto-meet everyone when the UN is built. But again, my memory...
I don't see culture win as feasible. It just doesn't work well with a long research path. Religion hoarding is also hard in this scenario.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Game Analysis T0-T5

SB
Score: 47, = palace, pop1, + 4 basic techs (agr, fish, arch, ???), assuming normal starting techs

Power: 18, ?= castle, archery, 2 archers, + 4 ???

6/4 eps on us. Looks like SB has only met us.

All AIs have same power. Hm...

AI Land tiles (6 capitals)
T0
7, 7, 7, 6, 6, 5

T2
11, 7, 7, 7, 6, 5
One creative AI jumped from 6 to 11

T4
15, ?, ?, ?, ?, 11, Ave = 13.166
36 more land tiles, an average of +7 per AI for the 5 AIs, with 1 tile left over. These guys may be coastal but they have a lot of land.


GNP
All AIs seem to have a castle, 1, +25%, = 8 base GNP for capital (3+5), for Cre. base = 10.
AIs have varied between 18 and 22 GNP, seems normal coins, teching a 20% bonus tech.

Food
2 AIs have had 5f every turn, maybe same AIs
T0-1
2AIs 5f, 3AIs 4f, 1AI 3f
T2-4 at most 1 other had 4f, the rest 3f
T5 at least 1 has only 2f !?!

Hammers
T0-1
Max 2h, min 1h, average 1h (truncated), could be 5 AIs at 2h...
T2-4 noticeable jump
2 AIs 4h, at most 1AI 3h, rest 2h
T5
3AIs 4h, at least 1AI 2h, rest 2-3h

4h in capital isn’t from a hammer multiplier like a forge so it’s likely actual hammers. Looks like 2-3 AIs have hammer production in capital. Will they grow slowly? We need to be on the lookout for an uber AI or two. We also need to be wary of early wonder production.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I’m guessing all AIs start with an extra tech. TW? Masonry? This might be Another game where the map maker made it easy for ais to quickly build early wonders. We know that no capital started with a 3 Hammer City Center but we don’t know if they settled on marble or stone on a tundra hill… Or on a plains tile

 

[LowtherCastle]

btw, an ice castle would cost us : Railroad, Combustion, Flight, Rifling, and Fascism (for paratroopers)
Actually, it would be game over, right? cus we can't get a city close enough to drop in (unless we find the ice castle close by)
Or can you paradrop from a boat? probably. I don't recall

Reminder: if we do Oracle + TGL, we have no other way to win except Conquest.

It does appear we need to prioritize sailing. I think an early TGL or colossus is playing Russian roulette. Until we know there’s no ice castle I don’t think it’s worth the gamble. I think it’s better to find an alternative research engine.

 

[LowtherCastle]

A basic game factor may be getting any religion. Especially if we turtle up. What if sitting ball doesn’t get a religion himself? And we’re far from everybody else?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Sitting Bull with a castle is unkillable.

If we can't have sitting bull's capital site, maybe we can steal his #2 site.
Send the triple seafood settler onwards?

Might be a bit risky to settle that close militarily or if he builds a ton of culture.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We see:
4 happies, +2 w/forge, +1 w/ market
7 healthies, +2 w/granary, +2 w/harbor, +1 w/grocer, +3 w/super

Our cities won’t get past about 15 without help.

 

[WastinTime]

A basic game factor may be getting any religion. Especially if we turtle up. What if sitting ball doesn’t get a religion himself? And we’re far from everybody else?

we will probably get Confu. Assuming we sorta race for CS/Bureau

 

[LowtherCastle]

Sitting Bull with a castle is unkillable.

If we can't have sitting bull's capital site, maybe we can steal his #2 site.
Send the triple seafood settler onwards?

Might be a bit risky to settle that close militarily or if he builds a ton of culture.

With a barracks and a totem pole his protective archers start with an extra double promotion.