[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Mitchum]

I never checked the detail but I guess GPP round down, yes. I hope my spreadsheet does the right thing. I made it years ago back when LC was a pup.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Don’t we want to run an even number of specialists everywhere? For example, in Whales, alternating 2 and 4?

GP is not like beaker, the more the better. Points are wasted if no more great person is born. Getting the exact amount at the right time is the only concern.

 

[WastinTime]

1) I'm 99% sure we get to see Peter's tech whether he is in anarchy or not.

Since we didn't get Confu spread T127, I strongly prefer putting Peter in Slavery. If we do, then he can't take Tao for 1 turn. Allowing us to lock him in.

2) I'm 99% sure that since we've kept him out of Tao, and we get confu spread next turn to Vlad, we can prevent him from switching (unless Tao magically spreads)

I know we can get Friendly Tao Peter, but it's the demands to stop trading with SB I don't want. We want to sail thru his canal, etc.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Whale City *locked at pop 10
T127 - Parthenon not Fur
*T128 - Parthenon Fur silver horse +5 scientists
*T129 - wb; 8 sci

Sorry, my mistake.
I forgot T128 Whale City needs to work Fur to finish Parthenon, so it can't have 5 specialists.

Let me check WT's latest offering.
The T127 and T128 Whale City spreadsheet boxes are a bit messed up now that I look.
Hardcoded value errors.

I think I got Science City right.
It does not work 2 farms on T129 and loses -1 working the gems and horses to finish National Epic.

No likey. I don't like using a 100% GS city (which is rare this game)
Hmm... I don't like using a university city either.
Whales woulda been good, but it doesn't go til 1400.

I hate to say this, but it should be Cows at 700. We want this mudblood GE/GM born before GAge #2
Clams, a 100% pure GS should be after the GAge.

So now, Science is 900, Clams is 800, Profit gets 600 faster... (no change to the other 3 cities)

Ok, so Merchants in Profit City and Cow City then.

Hopefully we don't get both a Great Prophet and Great Engineer.
I'd cry if we had to recall our Great Merchant from Russia to do Sushi.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Since we didn't get Confu spread T127, I strongly prefer putting Peter in Slavery. If we do, then he can't take Tao for 1 turn. Allowing us to lock him in.

Convincing.

We want to sail thru his canal, etc.

I seldom play maps other than Pangaea. Does caravel require open border before it can sail through SB's city?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Convincing.
I seldom play maps other than Pangaea. Does caravel require open border before it can sail through SB's city?

Ya, I still like the Slavery for Russia.
Peter needs to whip settlers and workboats for those 2 western islands for us!

It slows down Peter 1 turn due to Anarchy, but we should still get to see what he techs next turn.

Russia needs slavery more than caste now since he is rapidly expanding and has an Academy in the capital.
Whipping a Harbor in Moscow can happen at any moment with bureau bonus.

Caravel can sail in closed-border waters, but it can't enter cities or forts without Open Borders.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Right. How many hpts is Moscow running under castes?

It is as 7pop on T127.
The only way to know for sure the hammers per turn is to record the espionage values each turn.

I would estimate 12 to 24 per turn with bureau bonus.
The city tiles is 2 hammers, the horse is 4, and the cow is 2 which will all get worked at all times.
Silver mine and plains hill mine and plains farm are all optional.

Peter Trade Mission

Is there some urgency on this or can it wait till Moscow completes its harbor?

Upgrading 2 Triremes to Caravels cost 100, and if we focus on workboats, a dun in Silver City, and barracks during Golden ages we won't be able to build a lot of Wealth.

The Great Merchant can just sit in Moscow waiting for a Harbor and good news from Profit or Cow City I suppose sure.
We can decide once we run out of money whether to keep waiting for harbor.

All the merchant specialists in Cow and Profit will help.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here's what I realized had to change.
Short answer: Whales (still no starve) 1400 on T149 (not 148). (but that's not a bad thing, it doesn't affect Bio/Sushi!)

Why? because this is not a Biology GS, it's for Astro, and we don't care if it comes as late as T150.
But why not just get it 148 like the plan says?
Because, we have to manually complete SciMeth so we have it on T147 (parthenon is gone)
Research:
146 SM
147 bulb Bio with our 100% pure GS, and manually finish Bio.
148 Liberalism
So we can't get Sushi 1t after GS birth no matter what because we have no way to put a few beakers into Bio.
149 Sushi, bulb some of Astro, Start Astro
150 Astro 100%

I had not considered Parthenon going offline T147.
Let me look.

**Edit**
Whale City
Ya, a GPP error from hardcoding.

On T128, It currently says 3 specialists and 15 GPP.
Change it to 3 specialists and 9GPP.


For a permanent fix, change box AF11 to read =AE11*3

How about 4 specialists in Whale City T128 and 1 specialist on T140? (not a citizen)
I think that would fix Whale City without messing up the food.

Science City is also hardcoded on the spreadsheet T127, T128, T129, and T130, so keep that in mind if making any changes.

Canal City
Canal City has a food error T136 through T140
Working 5 specialists gives +3 per turn, not +1.

It can save a starving population with the new food.

T136 - T137; 4 specialists
T138 - T140; 6 speclialists
T141 - 8 specialists
T142 - 10 specialists
T143 - 12 specialists (starve)
T144 - 11 specialists (starve)

Science City
The food is off again and the city will starve on T143.

T136 - T138; 2 speclialists.
T139 - T140; 4 specialists.
That should fix it.

There ought to be a way to get the spreadsheet to automatically calculate the food for us, but it would take forever to figure out how to do that!

Silver City
I'm not sure how this error made it through 30 spreadsheets, but Silver City starts with 14GPP on T127, not 5!
I don't think it affects anything.

Spoiler :

Clam City
The city will starve on T141 working 9 specialists.
Working 7 should be just fine.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I vote fool.

I complete you Villagers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

How much slower will Peter tech Optics under Slavery and whipping the bejesus out of his low-food, slow-growing cities?

Can’t we trade for Compass this turn, trade for Slavery next turn if he’s not in Optics?

 

[MirrorGuard]

There ought to be a way to get the spreadsheet to automatically calculate the food for us, but it would take forever to figure out how to do that!

I made a look-up table in my spreadsheet with vlookup function.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I had not considered Parthenon going offline T147.
Let me look.

**Edit**
Whale City
Ya, a GPP error from hardcoding.

On T128, It currently says 3 specialists and 15 GPP.
Change it to 3 specialists and 9GPP.


For a permanent fix, change box AF11 to read =AE11*3

How about 4 specialists in Whale City T128 and 1 specialist on T140? (not a citizen)
I think that would fix Whale City without messing up the food.

Science City is also hardcoded on the spreadsheet T127, T128, T129, and T130, so keep that in mind if making any changes.

Canal City
Canal City has a food error T136 through T140
Working 5 specialists gives +3 per turn, not +1.

It can save a starving population with the new food.

T136 - T137; 4 specialists
T138 - T140; 6 speclialists
T141 - 8 specialists
T142 - 10 specialists
T143 - 12 specialists (starve)
T144 - 11 specialists (starve)

Science City
The food is off again and the city will starve on T143.

T136 - T138; 2 speclialists.
T139 - T140; 4 specialists.
That should fix it.

There ought to be a way to get the spreadsheet to automatically calculate the food for us, but it would take forever to figure out how to do that!

Silver City
I'm not sure how this error made it through 30 spreadsheets, but Silver City starts with 14GPP on T127, not 5!
I don't think it affects anything.

Clam City
The city will starve on T141 working 9 specialists.
Working 7 should be just fine.

Updated the spreadsheet with all the changes.
The 9 extra GPP in Silver City didn't change anything.
Canal City still wins with a tie-breaker.

Silver City might be able to work 1 less specialist.
Cow City might also be able to work a few less specialists.

Amazing.
I only see 1 city with the dreaded "Avoid Growth" button, our capital.
Only 3 population starves, all in Canal City.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I made a look-up table in my spreadsheet with vlookup function.

A table is a good idea.
I don't really use excel that much.
vlookup would be a new function for me

How much slower will Peter tech Optics under Slavery and whipping the bejesus out of his low-food, slow-growing cities?

Can’t we trade for Compass this turn, trade for Slavery next turn if he’s not in Optics?

If Peter is doing Optics, then Slavery will certainly slow him down at least 1 turn.

I guess we can bribe him to Slavery later, but it will cost another tech I think. (Literature?)

In the long term, slavery will help Peter tech and hand out more gold than Caste.
He has gotten the easy great people.

If Peter gets those islands settled, we can trade him Music later.
That way he can still pop borders fast.

 

[Kaitzilla]

PPP T127 to T130
synced to new GPP
* indicates there is a modification


Techs
Get Compass for Banking +*bribe Peter into slavery to accelerate harbor in Moscow?

T127 Music
T128-129 Optics

Workers

Phillip
Joan Dark
Wheat

Shepherd
cottage Science-1N
*stop at T129

Rex
127 Move to Rice tile (so not blocking forest grow)
128-129 workshop Rice-S or if forest grew: Rice-2E

Cowboy
road/mine silver

Heretic
Wheat

Cities
Science City
127- NE *avoid growth on
128 NE, 1 scientist
129 NE, *3 Sci

Cow City
127 wb
*128 wb 3 merchants
*129 wb 7 merchants

Canal City (verify borders will expand T130)
127 Wealth 1 scientist
*T128 - culture 6 artists
*T129 - wealth 10 scientists

Clam City
127 wealth work TundraRiver + 1 sci
128 wealth *6 scientists
129 wealth; 6 sci

*Profit City
127 wb 0 scientist
128 wb 1 scientist
129 wb; 7 sci

*Silver City
T127 wb 2 sci
T128 wb; 9 Sci
T129 - wb; 10 sci

Whale City *locked at pop 10
T127 - Parthenon not Fur
*T128 - Parthenon Fur silver horse +5 scientists
*T129 - wb; 8 sci

Units
Trireme
sail to Clams

Galley in Peter's land
Take Miss to Vlad. Go south to catch white/gray culture on T130

Galley Whale City

Galley
127 Drop workers
128 drop last worker
Hang out and wait for possible GP transport to Profit's possible caravel

Confucian Missionary
Spread to Vlad if no Tao there.

Diplomacy

Peter
Compass for Banking

Don't renegotiate Rice with Peter. If he asks us to cancel deals with SB, we will. So we need to be able to get our Rice back.
Give in to any Peter demand except:
Gold demand will be discussed with team
Everything else is a probably Yes including Paper or our map, or cancel deals w/SB (e.g. if Tao spread and he demanded switch we'd DENY that)

Every turn
Check if Confu/Tao spread somewhere
Check for fist
Save and the start and end of each turn
EP spending on Peter just enough to keep eyes on research

Stopping point
Peter or Sitting Bull demands , pause and discuss with team the amount
Peter starts Optics
Something unexpected happens
begin T130

T128 Whale City, I think we are leaning towards 4 scientists now.

T129 Science City, we will be working all the gems and horse, so we will give up 2 farms to work specialists I think

Profit City will work merchants with Cow City to increase our odds of getting a Great Merchant.

2nd Trireme from Profit City will sail to 1S1W of Cow City?
If it is to be upgraded to Caravel and take a Great Merchant to Moscow, I think that is the best spot for it.

If he asks us to cancel deals with SB we will

This is extremely dangerous.
Canceling a deal with an AI because another demanded it will result in the AI refusing to speak to us with a !
This has a 5% chance to wear off each turn.

One game I went 60 turns with an AI refusing to speak to me, and it crippled my game.

If we DOW Sitting Bull, theoretically we might never be able to stop it.
Might not be able to Open Borders, tech trade, or get money or begs ever again.


Sorry you got stuck with the spreadsheet turnset Mirrorguard.
I think after 1 week we almost have it figured out.

 

[LowtherCastle]

A table is a good idea.
I don't really use excel that much.
vlookup would be a new function for me


If Peter is doing Optics, then Slavery will certainly slow him down at least 1 turn.

I guess we can bribe him to Slavery later, but it will cost another tech I think. (Literature?)

In the long term, slavery will help Peter tech and hand out more gold than Caste.
He has gotten the easy great people.

If Peter gets those islands settled, we can trade him Music later.
That way he can still pop borders fast.

We can bribe him to Slavery T128, before we revolt, if he’s not teching Optics.

Or bribe him to Slavery between GAs.

 

[LowtherCastle]

My calcs on GP probabilities:

200 Can — What if GS?
300 Silv — 100% GS
400 Sci — 97% GS
500 Can — 93% GS
600 Cow — 19% GE, 81% GM
700 Pro — 29% GPro, 71% GM
800 Cla — 100% GS
900 Sci — 95.7% GS

1000 Can — 93.3% GS
1200 Silv — 100% GS
1400 Wha — 92% GS

 

[LowtherCastle]

Is a GM 1500g trade mission in the near future worth more than a GE for Eiffel?

 

[WastinTime]

How about 4 specialists in Whale City T128 and 1 specialist on T140? (not a citizen)
I think that would fix Whale City without messing up the food.

This looks like it works,
But I thought MG said because of the GAge's extra hammers on T128 we don't really have a problem and maybe can run 5 sci if we wanted?
4 sci is probably better and then no citizen

There ought to be a way to get the spreadsheet to automatically calculate the food for us, but it would take forever to figure out how to do that!

I think it wouldn't be too hard if you just assume every person works 2 food. But that's not really the case this game in some cities.

This is extremely dangerous.
Canceling a deal with an AI because another demanded it will result in the AI refusing to speak to us with a !

Right, that's why : slavery for Peter this turn.

 

[WastinTime]

Is a GM 1500g trade mission in the near future worth more than a GE for Eiffel?

Ya, Eiffel is buildable. I don't want to save 800 or whatever with a GE.

 

[LowtherCastle]

This is extremely dangerous.
Canceling a deal with an AI because another demanded it will result in the AI refusing to speak to us with a !

So refuse to cancel deals with SB.