[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

Bismark and Arab relations were in a holding pattern until we made contact with France.

I thought that was it. But now we can get 70-90 gold for trades this turn.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Is Karl a land target of Sal’s?

Let me check.

Spoiler :

Ya, Charlemagne is touching 9 Arab land tiles with his own land tiles, so the Arabs should consider Holy Roman Empire a land target.

That makes it very likely that HRE is the war target of Saladin.
Still a tiny chance it could be us though.

 

[WastinTime]

Since we met 150, Louie will increase to -3 religion on T155, so we need to get him Pleased before 155 and keep him Pleased til we get Astronomy.

Similar to iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange, there is iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange
Louie is -2 which means he won't "-1 feel threatened by your large civ" if we get him to rank 4 (rank difference 3)

We get him there (on or before T154) by gifting 10 techs, which also gives us +1 sharing tech.

That's +6 - 3 = +3 Pleased because the -1 first impression used to be hidden so it's the same as the old '+4 Pleased'.

Now, we have to keep him Pleased until we get Astronomy, but he'll get -1 on T155
No problem. We bribe him into war on Charlemagne 154 or earlier.

On the turn we get Astronomy (or earlier) we DoW Charley which we were gonna the following turn anyway and get +1 shared war, Pleased. Get Iron.

10 techs:
Math, Aes, Lit, Music, CodeLaws, Philo, Paper, HBR, Calendar (after we get it), Metal Casting
For war on Karl: Compass? or Theology (after we get it)?

(Might have to consider Civil Service and Nationhood to get him high enough in rank?)

 

[WastinTime]

That makes it very likely that HRE is the war target of Saladin.

Dogpile HRE! Maybe we should take the HRE island and then let everyone conquer him. bombarding defenses, killing units.
We move on sooner than planned to maybe Bismarck.

Question: if, for example, Sal takes a HRE city, then we some day take that city from Sal. Do we get full conquest gold for the age of the city being 50+ turns? or does the counter start over

 

[Kaitzilla]

Since we met 150, Louie will increase to -3 religion on T155, so we need to get him Pleased before 155 and keep him Pleased til we get Astronomy.

Similar to iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange, there is iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange
Louie is -2 which means he won't "-1 feel threatened by your large civ" if we get him to rank 4 (rank difference 3)

We get him there (on or before T154) by gifting 10 techs, which also gives us +1 sharing tech.

That's +6 - 3 = +3 Pleased because the -1 first impression used to be hidden so it's the same as the old '+4 Pleased'.

Now, we have to keep him Pleased until we get Astronomy, but he'll get -1 on T155
No problem. We bribe him into war on Charlemagne 154 or earlier.

On the turn we get Astronomy (or earlier) we DoW Charley which we were gonna the following turn anyway and get +1 shared war, Pleased. Get Iron.

10 techs:
Math, Aes, Lit, Music, CodeLaws, Philo, Paper, HBR, Calendar (after we get it), Metal Casting
For war on Karl: Compass? or Theology (after we get it)?

(Might have to consider Civil Service and Nationhood to get him high enough in rank?)

That might work!

He is -2 different religion already.
France does not have the Hindu holy city.
I wonder why it is not -1?

I feel like our different religions pealty might increase -3 in 1-to-5 turns instead of just 5 turns, but I have no proof.


Louis would only be willing to DOW Charlemagne if he had a higher Power Rating (Soldiers) than Holy Roman Empire. (If Louis is weaker, he says "We would have nothing to gain")

Without the war bribe, Louis would fall back to Cautious with the -3 religion diplo. Hmm

 

[WastinTime]

higher Power Rating (Soldiers) than Holy Roman Empire

We could give him feudalism and he'll upgrade archers for increased power. It's not like he won't have longbows by the time we have to conquer him.

 

[Kaitzilla]

We could give him feudalism and he'll upgrade archers for increased power. It's not like he won't have longbows by the time we have to conquer him.

Alright, let me check the points.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-207#post-15849983

We need to boost France 148 points.

Spoiler :

10 techs:
Math, Aes, Lit, Music, CodeLaws, Philo, Paper, HBR, Calendar (after we get it), Metal Casting
For war on Karl: Compass? or Theology (after we get it)?

Math - 12
Aesthetics - 12
Literature - 12
Music - 18
Code of Laws - 12
Philosophy - 18
Paper - 18
Horseback Riding - 12
Calendar - 12
Metal Casting - 12
Feudalism - 18
Compass - 12

Ah, France already has Aesthetics + Lit + Music I think.

All these offerings are worth 126 points.
Still need 22 more.


We actually need to trade France Civil Service before we can trade him Paper.
We can also trade Construction after Math.

That is +30 points.

So:
Round 1
Code of Laws
Feudalism

Round 2
Civil Service
Math
Metal Casting

Round 3
Philosophy
Paper
Horseback Riding
Calendar
Compass

That would be the safest way to feed Louis I think.
It adds up to 156 points.
Give him time to power up, and if he goes to -3 dilpo from religion on T151 or T152, we can stop feeding him techs.

We can also switch to Louis now and start sending the spy caravel as a back up plan.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Now for the power check.

Demographics soldiers guide:
https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/st...orkings-of-the-demographics-screen-explained/

Sitting Bull estimate:
On T147 Sitting Bull had 155,000 Soldiers and was the weakest AI in the world based off our Soldier count and our power rating with SB.
T147 - He lost a Galley, Dog Soldier, 2 Archers, and 9 population when Poverty Point burned (-13,500 soldiers)
T148 - Gained Feudalism (no soldiers, same as Engineering :lol)
T149 - Gained 1 Archer (+2000 Soldiers)
T150 - The current weakest AI is 143,000 Soldiers which is probably Sitting Bull.


Strength of France vs. Holy Roman Empire
Population
France - 35 pop
HRE - 40 pop
Advantage HRE (+2500 Soldiers)

Notable Buildings (Castles don't add to soldiers)
France - 3 Barracks, Walls (+11,000 Soldiers)

Spoiler :

Mystery new city ??? probably not many buildings

Holy Roman Empire - Moai Statues, 4 Barracks, 2 Forges, 4 Walls (+34,000 Soldiers)

Spoiler :

Advantage HRE (+23000 Soldiers from buildings)
Armies
HRE - Decent Sized
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-222#post-15860758

France
???

Advantage ???

Techs of France vs. Holy Roman Empire
After 10 tech trades, France will have the advantage of only Compass
Advantage France (+4000 Soldiers)

 

[WastinTime]

Ah, France already has Aesthetics + Lit + Music I think.

Math is a prereq for Music , so no Music for Louie

 

[Kaitzilla]

Machinery and Guilds are both worth 8000 Soldiers, but I suspect that unless France has a huge army they won't want to DOW Holy Roman Empire.

That darn Maoi Statue is really strong and Charlemagne has a fair amount of troops.
Every city had like 4 defenders.

Archer -> Longbow upgrade adds +3000 Soldiers each time
Axe - > Mace is +3000 Soldiers each time
Sword - > Mace is +2000 Soldiers each time

 

[Kaitzilla]

Math is a prereq for Music , so no Music for Louie

Here is the revised list

So:
Round 1
Feudalism
Metal Casting
Mathematics
Horseback Riding

Round 2
Machinery
Construction

Round 3
Philosophy
Music
Calendar
Compass

Sigh, 4 points short.
Might have to gift Guilds for 18 points and +8000 Soldiers

 

[Kaitzilla]

These 10 or 11 techs, if we give them to France it might get traded around.

France is almost Friendly with Germany and Arabs I think.

 

[WastinTime]

Sigh, 4 points short.

Don't forget cities get whipped and scores change.

We should think about how to prevent Louis from getting Calendar in trade before we can get it to him.
We should get/give Calendar in round 2, next turn, 151. Maybe hold off on HBR or MC. I'll have to look closer.

afk again for several hours.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I don’t like it. Gotta be a better solution.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We want to beat down on Ais not prop them up

 

[LowtherCastle]

We want iron until we build Eiffel, very late in the game. We want to get it from a very weak AI who will be easy yo conquer late in the game. Louis seems very weak right now. Let’s keep him that way.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don’t like it. Gotta be a better solution.

We want to beat down on Ais not prop them up

I think it almost has to be spies, right?

T164 Iron is not the worst outcome.
We can only make Frigates and Maces with Iron right now anyway.

 

[LowtherCastle]

What do we need iron for immediately? Two friggin’ frigates? Knights? Maces?

Xpost

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think it almost has to be spies, right?

T164 Iron is not the worst outcome.
We can only make Frigates and Maces with Iron right now anyway.

Seems so. Maybe gradually gift him up to Liberalism for Free Religion. Or spam him with Confu.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Seems so. Maybe gradually gift him up to Liberalism for Free Religion.

Woo, free religion.
Would that really work?

I wonder what France's natural civic change clock is at?
He is not spiritual.