[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

If we do nothing, we can probably get Iron around T175 with +1 open borders and +2 resources from trading France 6 resources for 17 turns.
No stone or marble for us though, ugh

Or we move that up 11 turn to T164 with the Spy attempt.
We would have to average 20 espionage per turn.
Odds that both spy and missionary succeed is about 71%
Tiny chance of -1 Diplo if spy is caught.

We could increase our odds a lot with 2 spies and 2 missionaries.
2nd attempt would occur around T169.

Canal can only produce 2 of the 3 needed units hmm.
Perhaps Whale could make the 2nd missionary and put it on our Caravel when it is done with 2nd sushi and drop it in Germany.
Then missionary could walk to France before sailing into Paris or wherever the 2nd spy was placed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Louis will adopt FR at Friendly.

Same religion goes up to +5. That’s the winner if we can get him in it for keeps.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We put confu in a city with the least religions, closest to us. Then spread more confu around his cities. Revolt him once. Finito.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Isn’t France pretty close to the SE?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ok, so I want to play my 5 final turns with the following changes to PPP


T150 - Trade Math to France for 50, then sign Open Borders
T150 - Trade Aesthetics to Germany for 20 + map +4 fair trade
T150 - Trade Aesthetics to Arabs for 20 + 4fair trade
T151 - Send Caravel with Spy to Paris
T151 - Attack Chaco Canyon from the sea with 3 Muskets + the 0xp Chariot if it is still defended by Archer + Dog Soldier
T151 - Bulb Astronomy after triple bulbing Biology and then trading Bismarck Paper for Calendar
T152 - Trade Mission to Moscow for 1500 when it finally has a Harbor

Move all to France
Accept all tech or map demands from France, Germany, and Arabs.
Deny all demands from Holy Roman Empire
Deny any demand to change civic or religion from anyone
Discuss with team any demands

Work a spy specialist whenever possible
Set up Canal City to 2-pop whip a Spy+Confu Missionary combo after whipping Forge

Keep attacking our SB scout punching bag with Catapults
Leave the northern SB scout alone so that one of our future siege can hit it if it ever wanders into our borders

 

[Kaitzilla]

Louis will adopt FR at Friendly.

Same religion goes up to +5. That’s the winner if we can get him in it for keeps.

We can only bribe him into Free Religion if we are running that civic ourselves.
Maybe we get lucky and he builds Shwedagon Paya and switches to Free Religion naturally.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Isn’t France pretty close to the SE?

Not greatly close no.

Spoiler :

We can use that hidden island halfway between Canal City and France to store units. (10E of Cahokia? I see seafood in that area)
Galleon can dump units on the island, and then we can put that Caravel to work doing short shuttle runs.

 

[WastinTime]

Louis will adopt FR at Friendly.

That might be a great idea. He has multiple religions and has no holy City. He might take free religion on his own. It would kind of depend on the last time he changed civics. We don't need a shared religion. We just need to not have him haye our religion

 

[LowtherCastle]

Our GS locates Louis’ 6th city. If no religion, put the spy there. Is it there sooner?

Oh wait. We’re hoping his city will have TRs with us for another 20% off the spy mission. All of his cities will prefer our cities for overseas, right?

Is it first come, first served? Where is Louis on the list of AIs in the Demo screen?

 

[WastinTime]

So we should not give him theology because if he's at war he would take theocracy. But then again if he's at war then we will have shared war bonus

 

[LowtherCastle]

Or can each AI have TRs with our cities, unbeknownst to us?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Don’t give him goose turd.

 

[Kaitzilla]

That might be a great idea. He has multiple religions and has no holy City. He might take free religion on his own. It would kind of depend on the last time he changed civics. We don't need a shared religion. We just need to not have him haye our religion

We could trade to France
T150 Math
T151 Code of Laws
T152 Civil Service
T153 Paper
T154 Education
T155 Philosophy, and then Liberalism.

For a good chance at permanent Iron, I think we can roll the dice giving these techs away.

It does not advance the new world outrageously.
If France does not naturally adopt Free Religion, we do our spy thing and try to get iron the rotten way.

Our GS locates Louis’ 6th city. If no religion, put the spy there. Is it there sooner?

Oh wait. We’re hoping his city will have TRs with us for another 20% off the spy mission. All of his cities will prefer our cities for overseas, right?

Is it first come, first served? Where is Louis on the list of AIs in the Demo screen?

Let me check.

The player will get a -20% Trade Routes bonus if the player has a city in their empire with a trade route to the AI target city. (Thanks Elitetroops!)

We are overseas for France and have 7 cities with 4 trade routes.
We should almost certainly get -20% Trade Route bonus I think.
Take away HRE, add in Peter, hmm
Yes, 28 overseas trade routes for our empire, and 28 overseas cities

The new Louis 6th City?
I'll send our scout Great Scientist up there before using it to bulb Astro on T151.
Maybe I can catch a peek if it has no religion

If it has no religion, then we should probably take advantage of 100% Confu spread chance.
Lot of holy cities over there.
It would be surprising if it stayed religion-free until T165.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So we should not give him theology because if he's at war he would take theocracy. But then again if he's at war then we will have shared war bonus

Who, Louis?
Ya, that would make it very annoying to spread Confu.

Don’t give him goose turd.

Who?

 

[Kaitzilla]

*Updated*
I want to play my 5 final turns with the following changes to PPP


T150 - Trade Math to France for 50, then sign Open Borders
T150 - Trade Aesthetics to Germany for 20 + map +4 fair trade
T150 - Trade Aesthetics to Arabs for 20 + 4fair trade
T151 - Send Caravel with Spy to Paris
T151 - Trade Code of Laws to France for money
T151 - Attack Chaco Canyon from the sea with 3 Muskets + the 0xp Chariot if it is still defended by Archer + Dog Soldier
T151 - Bulb Astronomy after triple bulbing Biology and then trading Bismarck Paper for Calendar
T152 - Trade Civil Service to France for money
T152 - Trade Mission to Moscow for 1500 when it finally has a Harbor
T153 - Trade Paper to France for money
T154 - Trade Education to France for money

Move all to France

Accept all tech or map demands from France, Germany, and Arabs.
Deny all demands from Holy Roman Empire
Deny any demand to change civic or religion from anyone
Discuss with team any demands

Work a spy specialist whenever possible
Set up Canal City to 2-pop whip a Spy+Confu Missionary combo after whipping Forge

Keep attacking our SB scout punching bag with Catapults
Leave the northern SB scout alone so that one of our future siege can hit it if it ever wanders into our borders

Use the great scientist near France to explore Louis' 6th city before bulbing Astronomy. Don't use up all !

 

[LowtherCastle]

Who?

Louis. I guess we can do him Liberalism.

 

[Mitchum]

I like this plan better than trying to move Louis up the scoreboard.

Green light.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We could trade to France
T150 Math
T151 Code of Laws
T152 Civil Service
T153 Paper
T154 Education
T155 Philosophy, and then Liberalism.

For a good chance at permanent Iron, I think we can roll the dice giving these techs away.

It does not advance the new world outrageously.
If France does not naturally adopt Free Religion, we do our spy thing and try to get iron the rotten way.


Let me check.

We are overseas for France and have 7 cities with 4 trade routes.
We should almost certainly get -20% Trade Route bonus I think.
Take away HRE, add in Peter, hmm
Yes, 28 overseas trade routes for our empire, and 28 overseas cities

The new Louis 6th City?
I'll send our scout Great Scientist up there before using it to bulb Astro on T151.
Maybe I can catch a peek if it has no religion

If it has no religion, then we should probably take advantage of 100% Confu spread chance.
Lot of holy cities over there.
It would be surprising if it stayed religion-free until T165.

DanF5771 has it opposite. Paris (or Louis city 6) has to have a TR with one of our cities.

Well, there are no real priorities here -- the game simply loops over all cities of all the potential trade partners and compares the respective trade profits.

The order during the looping is determined by the IDs of the players (= the order in which they appear in your F4 foreign advisor screen) and the respective order of their cities (= the order in which they were founded or acquired = how they would appear in their F1 domestic advisor screens).

Cities checked at a later point need to yield better trade profits to push back cities that were checked in the beginning. Thus, the human player who normally has the ID=0 (may only be different in scenarios) will usually have a high number of "outgoing" trade routes = a lot of AI cities will have trade routes with the human cities in a balanced game situation, since the human cities are checked first. Therefore the human's Exports-Imports statistics in the F9-Demographics screen will often be negative, but this is rather irrelevant economically.

But it is not completely irrelevant concerning another game concept: Espionage!
Espionage missions get a discount on their -cost if the target city has an outgoing trade route to a city of the spy's owner. So the human is at a slight disadvantage because missions against him will be a bit cheaper than against other players on average.

Note that the loop order in which your cities "grab" their partner cities is optimized. As a first step, all your cities are sorted according to their inherent total trade modifier (= function of city size, connected to capital, harbor, but not customs house). Then each city determines the best available partner cities and establishes the trade routes.

--> In a situation where you move your palace to one of your cities that you founded or "acquired" at a later date, make sure that this city has the best total trade modifier to grab the most lucrative trade routes first in order to maximize the benefit from +50% bureaucracy-bonus on . Build a harbor and grow it bigger than any other harbor-city preceding it in your F1-screen.

More points:

1. It does indeed seem from DanF’s post that multiple AIs can create TRs with our cities.
2. Louis has 6 cities, we have 7, so all of his cities should have TRs with ours. He checks ours first.
3. If Karl’s island city is a more valuable TR than ours, it will go to Paris! (Requires OBs between them.)
4. If Karl’s island city happens to be less valuable than our top five but more valuable than our last two it would go to Louis city 6.

No!!! Louis must have Astro for us to get the 20% bonus!!!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Will the caravel with spy arrive at Louis City 6 before or the same as Paris?

Green light

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think we can count on the 20% spy bonus but we can be certain by comparing the mission costs before and after Astro.


No!!! Louis must have Astro for us to get the 20% bonus!!!