[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

SB had still not put any eps on anyone else so probably hasn’t met anyone.

A 6:4 ratio for total eps would appear as 114% on the ep screen. 5:4 as 107%. He’s at 110%.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If SB meets no one else, he’ll trade only techs which don’t unlock units or buildings of any sort.

Not TW, BW, Poly, Pottery, IW...

 

[Kaitzilla]

If it’s not the same landmass the culture won’t spread three tiles over water.

Woops, good call!
Yes, we can only get that tile with border pops if it is connected to our landmass somehow.
So, not likely.

Is tile 84 east of tile 65?

Yes, Tile 84 (edge of the world) is about 5 tiles east of Sitting Bull's capital.
It is not a hard edge, the world is cylindrical wrapped.

If SB meets no one else, he’ll trade only techs which don’t unlock units or buildings of any sort.

Not TW, BW, Poly, Pottery, IW...

Yes, Sitting Bull will only easily trade to us:
Fishing
Agriculture
Animal Husbandry
Monotheism
Alphabet
Monarchy
Liberalism
Printing Press
Replaceable Parts
Scientific Method ​

 

[LowtherCastle]

I’m tempted to send Cow wbs 1 & 3 south and west and send Canal’s first wb east.

The land north might be just the six tiles wide we see. Has forest. Might be good for one offshore city. Maybe south will be the same. Where is our rosetta?

 

[WastinTime]

Exploring.
I feel like we are going to meet a couple more AI (maybe all) because we have paths West and South to explore. The map is just not that big, so they have to be just out of our current reach.
Doesn't mean they'll be good tech traders.
Prediction 1: We won't find places to settle in those 2 directions (AI occupied) and we won't find an AI to our NorthEast.
Prediction 2: That means our NorthEast is where the stone/marble is . There is not enough room for an AI up there with the 'end of the world' just past SB.
If not stone/marble, then it's probably a good site, or two (and gold? etc.)

 

[Mitchum]

Getting to the NE island is a PITA for sure. That will take many turns!! But I agree it's likely a great site for those who go through the pains to explore it.

The test game I have played forward is at T13. I will play it forward and upload it soonish. I don't plan to edit the land to the far west since it won't affect any play testing.

 

[Mitchum]

Here is the save. Interestingly, in the real save, we have +1 beaker in Sailing (or whichever tech we choose) compared to the test save. I have no idea how that happened. Maybe in the real game, SB learned Mysticism and we got a bonus beaker on it??? The rest looks to be accurate (food, hammers, current gold, etc.).

So keep that in mind if we're one beaker short of learning Sailing, in the real save we'll be fine.

If someone wants to monkey with saves to figure it out, I've uploaded the T13 test game as well.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Prediction 3: there are three nice sites offshore, nearby. South, north, and south of SB. The nicest will be south of SB and we’re in a race to either settle it before him or have to capture and settle. And that race depends of course on open borders or our galley getting there before that.

Prediction 4: The only AIs we will meet by workboot are via the Northwest. (South will be a small, ocean-locked island.)

It would be so nice to meet at least one or two AIs so we could go straight from Sailing to Writing.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Let's put this Eiffel tower discussion to bed.
tl;dr We forget about it and then GreatLH is back on the table. We have sailing coming and we probably want masonry for mids.
Post also contains: late game tech path

Eiffel: 1250 is a lot, but with iron, more like 625, so doable, but it's not like we can settle an 8th city in some forests.
However, the sushi plan means we will want to bulb physics, electricity and a little radio if we accidentally get aritsts from our NationalEpic or Parthenon city.
So bulbed techs come last.
making our tech path (something close to...)
biology, lib->medicine, corporation, (Miltary Trad*) communism, RepParts, steel (last big build), Refrig, Supercond, steam, AssLine, (Astro, Physics, Electr), Industrialism, Radio, MassMedia

* Mil Tradition: we may get this pre-sushi or even pre-biology to get conquer gold and kill em all.

RE: Settling Whale or 1e

Tl;dr: We would keep colossus longer than GLH and have it when we work a zillion wet sushi tiles.

Colossus comes later but might add more value all told. Doesn’t compete with early hammers for other stuff. Might get gold before building it. Food for thought.

 

[Mitchum]

Cows just finished wb1 which will go south and then west (i.e. the left side of the computer screen, LC... unless you play upside down). It's next builds will be monument -> wb2 -> wb3 -> galley

We could send wb2 scouting and use wb3 for fishing nets. wb3 might arrive a turn or two after borders pop but it's probably worth it to get that second scouting wb out sooner.

Exploring the North Sea is going to be a PITA. How soon can Canal afford to send one of its precious wbs to explore? It has hardly any production and still has to build a monument. A wb from Cows would take forever and a day to get up there. Any other ideas how we can explore up north before T100?

 

[Mitchum]

I just ran a balanced test (i.e. not trying to get Sailing ASAP) and here are my results:

Sailing T35
Galley T40
Science: 4 pops; 95H in SH; sheep, horses, rice improved, wine farm, two plains river farms; needs an MP unit soonish
Cows: 3 pops; 7OF hammers into galley
Canal: 2 pops; nets T34 (could also be an exploring wb); 3/30 in monument
exploring wb1: T22
exploring wb2: T30
wb3 for nets: T35 (JIT)

Basically, I worked the strongest tile (other than the fur camp) most of the time. Science worked the wine farm rather than the rice farm a couple of turns to pull in Sailing a turn. Cows focused on hammers to get the monument and exploring wbs done; Canal worked the 2F2C tile and then a 1F1H tile to get the wb done.

If we instead focus on working commerce tiles, Science would be 3 pops, Cows won't be able to finish all 3 wbs and monument, Canal would not have a wb yet.

I'm assuming that in LC's testing, the focus was on working commerce tiles which pulls in Sailing but slows down the development of our current cities. It might also sacrifice exploring wbs but I'm not 100% sure about that.

Should we focus on Sailing (and Galley) ASAP, my balanced approach, or something in between?

 

[Mitchum]

Here were LC's results for reference:

T13 Canal Options

T22 Myst, T26 Cow Monument, no options

T31 Sailing! (e.g., T36 Mining w/Silver wkr but no wb), T35 Canal wb, T47 monument, T57 border expansion, Cows p2, Sci p3, ~T38 galleyu

T32 Sailing, T37 Canal monument, wb 11h, T39 galley

Another option to look at would be growing cows more while building only a work boat in Canal.

I haven’t tested settling Canal later. Settling canal now works just fine. Frees up the workbook to explore and I’d say we’re at an advantage.

So it looks like my test with a galley on T40 is either 1 or 2 turns behind LC's tests.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Sitting here wondering if DD sells PITAs and why not seeing Mitch’s saves is giving me a headache when I spotted this:

At my age, is it possible I have menstrual migraine?

 

[WastinTime]

I think we should settle 4-foodsilver the turn we get Sailing Mining (around T38?)
I would like wb2 to go there and provide clam (unpopular with you explorer types).
I would like cowboy to farm-5t and then move 10 turns to silver mine and complete it T42 when that city grows to size 2 (then fur)
Shepherd can do rice, wine, and arrive at Deer exactly when borders pop.

If you really want to explore with wb2, then I'd be OK with having 4-foodsilver sit and work the silver tile building it's own monument and wbs.
But we need that silver to start this city. I know, it's a long walk for the worker, but a worker has to make that trip at some point and I don't think we can/should wait for a galley.
The real problem would be that the worker has nothing to do after silver+fur unless borders pop (deer). But we'll have 2 workers and neither has anything to do until BW (prechop) or mining. With IW, we really want them on the gems.

Nothing feels right. Henge would actually work nicely if we could build it in Science which we cannot.

 

[Mitchum]

WT, did you play out a test game? If so, can you upload it? If not, email to LC. He can drive to DD, get the email, and then post it for you.

 

[Mitchum]

I think we should settle 4-foodsilver the turn we get Sailing (around T32-34)
I would like wb2 to go there and provide clam (unpopular with you explorer types).

I guess this is ok, but then it would be sweet if 4Fsliver could build a wb early-ish (after monument) to explore west.

I would like cowboy to farm-5t and then move 10 turns to silver mine and complete it T42 when that city grows to size 2 (then fur)
Shepherd can do rice, wine, and arrive at Deer exactly when borders pop.

This sounds okay. Science can build another worker quickly when needed. Shepherd can handle both cities in the short term.

Nothing feels right. Henge would actually work nicely if we could build it in Science which we cannot.

Henge would be nice but we really have no place that can build it.


How many AIs would we have to know when Sailing is done to pull the trigger on the Alpha beeline? wb1 will have 10ish turns to explore which isn't really that many.

Wait, we're also self-teching Mining so that buys us a few more turns. It's starting to feel like we should just self-tech IW if we're already doing Mining... but Writing will be a huge boost to research allowing libraries to be built (in Science ASAP). This is a tough scenario to optimize.

 

[LowtherCastle]

WT, did you play out a test game? If so, can you upload it? If not, email to LC. He can drive to DD, get the email, and then post it for you.

Exactly. And the save I upload will oddly look just like my T31 save…

 

[LowtherCastle]

Mining will have to be done by ~t37 in WT’s scenario...

 

[WastinTime]

Didn't play yet. It's actually a pretty efficient walk to silver (9 turns, not 10). Mostly 2 tiles per turn, so it's not a horrible waste to walk up there.
Another option would be cowboy does farm, winefarm, deer, jumps on our boat to get on the silver T46, but I bet we have other plans for the boat...and that is a bit late for silver.

Are we doing Mining?(oh yeah, i forgot again) Slavery sure would make it easy to get 4-foodsilver a whipped monument & wbs. Just do BW?
Library is not quite worth it yet -- seems like we won't see one til after slavery.
Writing boosts research? by what? 1 with TR to SB. Or are you hoping we have sailing connections to everyone?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Doesn’t make sense that workboats don’t carry workers. Wtf? Why even call it a workboat? Since when do boats work?