Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 23, 2020.
If SH DoWs us, then we can get our GG or 20xp without acruing his negmods ...
That's like the 5th time you called him SH. (S...Head?)
Not including the times I corrected myself.
Ok, I've tested until my eyes bled, and we can get Masonry -> Writing -> Meditation -> Priesthood done by the start of T73 even without Stonehenge money.
This lets us start Oracle in Profit City on T73 and double chop it complete on T80 thanks to 50 overflow from Dun.
Going 1 turn without stone is no big deal.
Ignore the capital Pyramids
The Great Wall fail on T73 and mostly T74 takes us very, very far even without Stonehenge gold.
I was able to complete Oracle on T81 and get the Civil Service slingshot on T82 as long as the Stonehenge gold arrived by T80.
To get Oracle on T80 and Civil Service slingshot on T81, we need Stonehenge gold to arrive by T68 I would say.
The Open Borders with simulated Sitting Bull on Turn 66 only gave +1 per turn with a trade route to our island even though he has 2 cities.
Was able to explore his land with capital Chariot and Galley from the north very quickly.
Settler was ??? in capital awaiting further orders.
I'll start writing down the micro now.
But Writing first only gets us +1.
Are you doing a library? Exploring is nice and all, but we're losing 20% bonus for not having PH first. And won't Oracle be easier with early PH? I'll take a look at you micro and test too.
And can we really get Math + CoL in 8 turns? That'd be over 100 per turn.
Without the 20% bonus is only a 17 difference on Writing I think.
Ya, Library in Science City and City.
The earlier open borders is nice for exploration reasons, but Sitting Bull has probably not met anyone else. (unless he has built no workboat or galley yet to go explore? it is 1800BC)
Even if we went Priesthood -> Writing, we can't start Oracle until T68 or T69 I think.
No matter what we do, we must utilize the Dun trick as soon as we get stone on T63 to get Oracle done in good time around T80.
PPP Rough Draft
Turn 55 to Turn 80 Outline (Will only play 10 turns)
Continuing from Lowthercastle's playthrough up to Turn 45 to Turn 55:
Empire (No whip anger at all )
Cows has 6 in Barracks
Profit has 3 in Lighthouse
Silver has 3 in Lighthouse
T55 - T57 Masonry 0%
T58 - Masonry 100%
T59 - Masonry 70%
T60 - T62 Writing 0%
T63 - T64 Writing 100%
T65 - Writing 50% (Or 100% if Stonehenge money came in)
T66 - T69 Meditation 0% (Or 100% if Stonehenge money came in)
T70 - T71 Meditation 100%
T72 - 70% Priesthood (Or 100% if Stonehenge money came in)
Shepherd (Worker 2N1W of Cow City)
T56 - T58 Road fur 2W1N of Cow City
T59 - T60 Road cow 1W of Cow City
T61 - Move to forest 2N of Cow City
T62 - T64 Chop forest for Stonehenge Fail
T65 - Move to forest 1E of Cow City
T66 - T68 Chop forest for Great Wall fail
T69 - Move to wine tile
T70 - T72 Farm 1W of Science City
Cowboy (Worker 1E of Whale City)
T55 - T59 Mine silver
T60 - Move to forest 2E of Whales City
T61 - T64 Chop forest into Whales City
T65 - Build camp on deer
T66 - Camp on deer and stop
T67 - Move to forest 2S2W of Silver City
T68 - 71 Chop forest for Great Wall fail
T72 - T74 Camp on deer
Phillip (Worker 1N1W of Profit City)
T55 - Chop forest 1N1W of Profit City
T56 - Chop forest and stop
T57 - T59 Road stone
T60 - T63 Quarry stone
T64 - Board Galley and sail north
T65 - Get off at forest 2S of Cows City
T66 - T67 Chop forest for Great Wall fail
T68 - Move onto Deer tile
T69 - T71 Road Deer
T72 - Move to 2S2W of Science City and road
Joan Dark (Worker 1N of Science City)
T56 - Farm 1W of Science City and stop
T57 - Road 2W of Science City and stop
T58 - T59 Board Galley and sail south into Profit City
T60 - T63 Exit galley in Profit City and quarry stone
T64 - Board galley with Phillip and sail north
T65 - Get off at forest 2S of Cows City
T66-T67 Chop forest for Great Wall fail
T68 - Move onto Deer tile
T69 - Move 1S1E of Deer tile
T70 - T72 Road 1S1E of Deer tile
Rex (Born in Science City on Turn 58)
T58 - T60 Move to forest 1E of wheat
T61 - T63 Chop forest for 10 overflow into Great Wall
T64 - T66 Move to forest 2S2E of Science City
T67 - T69 Chop forest for Great Wall fail (should give the capital 148/150)
T70 - T71 Road rice
T72 - T73 Road horse
T74 - Move to forest 2N2W of Science City
T75 - T78 Chop forest for Pyramid fail
Settler 7 (Our last settler located 7N5E of Science City)
T56 - Move 1N1W and halt game if fish or copper discovered
T57 - Move 1W onto hill to get a good look
T58 - Board galley to sail back to capital if northern island is a dud
T60 - Exit galley 3N3E of capital
T61 - Walk back to capital without trampling on any forest growth
T55 - Worker; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsriverfarm
T56 - Worker; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsriver (to get 29/60)
T57 - 2-pop Whip Worker; Sheep, Horse, Winefarm
T58 - Granary; HALT GROWTH BUTTON ON Sheep, Horse, Rice
T59 - Chariot; Sheep, Horse, Rice
T60 - Chariot; HALT GROWTH BUTTON OFF Sheep, Winefarm, Rice
T61 - Chariot; Sheep, Horse, Rice, Winefarm
T62 - 1-pop Whip Chariot; Sheep, Rice, Winefarm (1 extra here is better than 3 from overflow cap)
T63 - The Great Wall (goes to 78/150); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm
T64 - Pyramids (goes to 18/500); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm
T65 - The Great Wall (goes to 96/150); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm
T66 - T68 Library; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsriverfarm
T69 - The Great Wall (goes to 148/150); Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsriverfarm, rivertundra
T70 - 2-pop Whip Library; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm
T71 - Chariot; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm
T72 - Chariot; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, Plainsriverfarm
T55 - Whip Workboat; Cow, Deer, Crab, Tundrafur
T56 - Another Workboat; Cow, Deer, Crab, Tundrafur, Plainsriverfarm
T57 - Granary; Cow, Deer, Crab, Tundrafur, Plainsriverfarm
T58 - 2-pop Whip Granary; HALT GROWTH BUTTON ON Cow, Deer, Crab
T59 - Workboat; Cow, Deer, Crab
T60 - Workboat; HALT GROWTH BUTTON OFF Cow, Deer, Crab
T61 - T62 Another Workboat; Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm
T63 - 1-pop Whip Workboat; Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm
T64 - Stonehenge (goes to 96/120); Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm
T65 - Stonehenge (goes to 114/120); Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm, Plainshillfur
T66 - The Great Wall (goes to 18/150); Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm, Plainshillfur
T67 - The Great Wall (goes to 76/150); Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm, Plainshillfur
T68 - The Great Wall (goes to 134/150); Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainsriverfarm, Plainshillfur
T69 - T72 Library; Cow, Deer, Crab, Plainshillfur, Tundrafur
T55 - Whip Workboat; Crab, Coast
T56 - Granary; Crab, Coast
T57 - Granary; Crab, Clam
T58 - Granary; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T59 - T62 Lighthouse; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T63 - 2-pop Whip Granary; Crab, Clam
T64 - The Great Wall (goes to 82/150); Crab, Clam
T65 - T66 Lighthouse; Crab, Clam
T67 - T68 Lighthouse; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T69 - 2-pop Whip Lighthouse; Crab, Clam
T70 - The Great Wall (goes to 102/150); Crab, Clam
T71 - Library; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam
T72 - 2-pop Whip The Great Wall; Crab, Clam
T55 - T59 Granary; Tundraforest
T60 - T61 Granary; Crab
T62 - Granary; Crab, unimproved Stone
T63 - T65 Granary; Crab, Stone
T66 - 1-pop Whip Granary; HALT GROWTH BUTTON ON Stone
T67 - T68 Dun; Crab
T69 - Dun; HALT GROWTH BUTTON OFF Crab
T70 - T72 Dun; Crab, Stone
T73 - T78 Oracle; Stone, Tundraforest, Tundraforest
T55 - Granary; Clam, Silvermine
T56 - T61 Granary; Clam, Silvermine, Tundrahillfur
T62 - T63 Granary; Clam, Crab, unimproved Crab
T64 - 1-pop Whip Granary; HALT GROWTH BUTTON ON Clam, Crab
T65 - Lighthouse; Clam, Crab
T66 - Lighthouse; HALT GROWTH BUTTON OFF Clam, Crab
T67 - Lighthouse; Clam, Crab, Crab
T68 - T69 Lighthouse; Clam, Crab, Crab, Silvermine
T70 - 2-pop Whip Lighthouse; Clam, Crab
T71 - The Great Wall (goes to 60/150); Clam, Crab, Crab
T72 - Library; Clam, Crab, Crab, Silvermine
T55 - T59 Monument; Clam
T60 - T64 Monument; Clam, Silvermine (T63 could put 6 into Stonehenge, but I like 3 into future Granary more)
T65 - T71 Granary; Clam, Silvermine
T72 - Granary; Clam, Silvermine, Coast
Galley 1 (8N1W of Canal City)
T56 - T57 Sail west to pick up Settler
T58 - T60 Sail towards 4N4E of Science City to drop off Settler
T61 - T65 Sail to 1S1E of wheat to pick up Chariot
T66 - T68 Sail to 2W of Sitting Bull's capital and drop off Chariot to explore
T69 + Sail around Sitting Bull's land looking for AI or good city spots
Galley 2 (Inside Cow City)
T55 - T57 Sail to 3S1E of Cow City
T58 - Pick up Joan Dark and sail to Profit City
T60 - Unload Joan Dark in Profit City
T61 - T63 Move to 1N of Profit City and wait
T64 - Pick up Joan and Phillip and sail north
T65 - Drop off Joan and Phillip at 2S of Cows City
T66 - Move to 2S1W of Cow City and wait
T71 or T72 ***If earlier than T80 Oracle is needed due to early Stonehenge fail , start moving workers
T73 - Move to 3S1E of Cow City
T74 - Pick up Worker and sail to Profit City
T75 - Drop off worker 1N1W of Profit City and head back north
T77 - Move to 3S1E of Cow City
T78 - T79 Sail down to Profit City and drop 2nd worker off at 1N1W of Profit City
T55 - T58 Garrison Cow City
Workboat 5 (Born in Cow City)
T56 - T61 Sail to 1E of Silver City
T62 - Net crab 2E1N of Silver City
Workboat 6 (Born in Canal City)
T56 - Move to 1S1W of Canal City
T57 - Net clam 2S of Canal City
Workboat 7 (Born in Cow City)
T57 - T59 Sail to 3N2E of Profit City
T60 - Net Profit City crabs
Workboat 8 (Born in Cow City)
T61 - T66 Sail to 2S of Silver City
T67 - Net crab 2S of Silver City
Workboat 9 (Born in Cow City)
T64 - T73 Sail to 3W of Whale City
T74 + Explore the great west
Espionage on Sitting Bull
Screenshot his city + espionage screen every turn
Screenshot the demo screen every turn
Check every turn for fist icon
T60 - Gift Cow to Sitting Bull
T66 - Sign Open Borders with Sitting Bull for +1 per turn and exploration starting T68
T73 - Gift Rice to Sitting Bull?
T56 - Northern island has additional seafood or copper
Stonehenge is completed by AI and we get a bunch of
Meet a new AI
79% Done, feeling sleepy
Uploading start of T65 + T70 Test Game run
Urk!, T72 is as far as I can go tonight,
Hmm, now that I look, Library 2-pop whip T73 in Cow City and working the plainsrivertile so much might not be best for the short term sprint to COL+Math
I think it's 36+
I'm tired too, but I know I'm not going to like a half dozen or more chops pre-math with math coming so soon.
Our precious forests exchanged for 40 a piece.
Feels like we're chopping 10 forests to get Oracle 1t sooner.
We must have too many workers.
187 Writing divided by 1.4 multiplier = 134 raw beakers
187 Writing divided by 1.6 multiplier = 117 raw beakers
134 - 117 = 17 raw beakers
17 raw beakers * 1.2 multiplier for any other tech is 21
3 chops in Cow, 1 chop in Science, 1 crucial chop in Canal, 1 chop in Whale, and 1 chop in Silver all before Math.
Yes, the 2 chops in Profit City are after Math.
Any AI that gets marble can finish Oracle in 7 or 8 turns.
Every turn faster matters I think.
Civil Service is 1248
And 2 chops in Profit. Oh, you mean pre math and these are postmath..I was still hoping we could get by with 1
1.6 multiplier for writing? I think it's too late I'm not following you. And do we even want open borders yet? Couldn't SB settle 2clams
(Hilarious tho sad)
Right. Each “20%” bonus is progressively less actual %, because the total beakers needed is fixed.
What WT hears: “yada yada yada crucial chop yada yada yada” WT: “One chop? One worker.”
Huh, I guess I rarely if ever got 60% bonus on anything, so my estimate for savings was way off. Anyway, 17 is still better than 1bpt.
And, like I said, we probably? don't want OB, so then it's 0.
And on top of that I would still like to start Oracle earlier. So, here's my plan:
I just tested and Priesthood T63 is doable, but we don't even need it then. T65 should be a breeze, and I think we can even let it go to T66 by using either rax or warrior whip.
The key is probably in Cows : whip wb and stop working Deer.
Then the previous plan for T81 Oracle is one option.
So we're not wasting the Dun trick.
Other tweaks, feel free to stop reading:
I don't think we need the following extra boost, but another way to squeeze out more coins is:
Profit: work coast instead of tundra for 5 turns (55-59).
To make up for those 5 lost hammers, we'd have to either use the Rax or, probably better is to cold-whip a warrior 0/15 for 5h overflow.
At least we need that warrior eventually.
OK, I see that you've selected your forests nicely so they can re-grow.
And most of them our outside our BFC. (some only 13)
And I suppose we can't wait til Math cus by then it's too late for SH/GW and we'd only get Mids failgold.
Excellent work Kait So I hate to mess with your MM too much.
Any way you can chop 1N2E instead of 1E in Cows? or does that extra movement turn throw something off?
Or are you thinking we want to improve that plainsriver? farm?
If you really wanna just go with your Dun in Profit. I can probably get on board. But would my way save us the Dun if we simply do PH before Writing?
Ok, I will try a Priesthood 1st variation.
I'm not really sure of the knock-on effects yet.
How do we breeze Masonry->Meditation->Priesthood in 10 turns?
Furs in Cow City?
Avoid the 4th exploration workboat in Cow City, stop working the plainsrivertile, and just fur it up on T56?
Yeah, you whip wb and immediate get off the Deer.
Silver City: can you work the Silver T62-63 instead of unimproved clam?
Research is the critical path to Oracle. We know we can build/chop it in time.
Brilliant Profit Plan, Kait!
We can shave one more turn off Oracle (tested!), by building a warrior 1t on T69, then whipping him T76. Requires Math T79, CoL T80.
Remotely possible even one more...
Maybe it's not worth your time/effort. If you really need to do a library cus nothing else to build in Science. I do like seeing that Library.
That's the real reason for Writing first (not exploration) We probably make up the beakers with that.
I guess the thing I'd like to see changed is Cows working the tundra fur almost always since it has 1f.
Work the plainsfur as much as possible. and throw in the 3rd fur if you can.
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