[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Mitchum]

What other paths are on the table? I think we ruled out State Property. Is there any better target than Biology/Nat Park? lib medicine?
Another good thing about lib-Medicine vs lib-Industrialism is that we do it earlier so we can get Communism/Kremlin if we want. Also, less chance the AI gets liberalism first.

Biology is not as strong as normal with the land we have now so I thought we were considering alternatives... Biology makes more sense with Sushi on the table now.

 

[WastinTime]

agree cowboy stays at cows (as much as they tend to like horses)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Working a coast to slow down the wb may make the wine farm only used 1 turn???

I get it. We’re maxing food in Science with t31 Sailing. Agree. Let’s max growth in both cities, within reason.

Two thoughts:
1. We can work the wines 1 or 2t unfarmed.

2. If forced to settle Canal we re-optimize our Sailing MM. Take notes on your best tests.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We will settle Canal.

We’re delaying to:

• speed up Cows border expansion, and
• settle offshore sooner.

Both workers and wb2 should prioritize Cows (nets, deer farm, fur camps) from t35 on, while building galley1 asap.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The current planning is t35 Cows border pop and t38 galley, with t31 Canal. Earlier Canal delays those dates.

Settling Canal how much earlier is acceptable for a 1t delay, 2t delay of Cows borders or the galley?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Also consider that Canal city will produce work boats for any cities beyond.

 

[Mitchum]

We can work the wines 1 or 2t unfarmed.

Yep, that was the plan and why I said two turns on wines cost 2F (we get those 2F if it's farmed and don't get them if it's unfarmed). I will work the wines if we need the to finish Sailing. Working the coast in Cows may mean it only needs to be worked 1 turn. I will work that out.

If forced to settle Canal we re-optimize our Sailing MM. Take notes on your best tests.

I was thinking about Canal this morning. One issue with it is that it will take forever and a day to build a Great Wonder in that city with the lack of production. I wonder if we should plan any GEs to help build some of these wonders. The other option is whip OF, of course.

I don't think we should voluntarily settle Canal (i.e. not in a race with SB for it), until after Mysticism at the soonest. I think I can safely play through Mysticism before we worry too much about that. Earliest Sailing date could be huge if we find sound juicy city sites south. Let's use our early wb scout and map knowledge to get them sooner than other teams.

I have to bring at least one Settle back in our borders for the exploring wb. I was planning for it to be the one right near Canal now and leave the one near SB to watch for a settler. I can track his product using the espionage screen so we'll know if he's likely building a settler (or SH). If the settler ends up in a race to get to Canal and settle (i.e. we move, he moves, we move, etc.) and he settles further south than where we want it, he could screw us up. So watching his production will be important.

I'll rework the MM now.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I’ve been assuming Canal would be our Moai city. Those hammers will build the GW.

T21 was my original idea for Canal. I think Sailing might then require farming the wines before the rice and growing less. I’d rather do that than work a 0f fur this early in the game.

Cows needs to be p6, Science only p4.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I’m betting early exploration will yield us stone at least, if not marble also. Stone is extremely valuable in this scenario. I have a hunch something lies just beyond SB, because it’s the hardest to explore. Early canal has an advantage there.

 

[Mitchum]

The current planning is t35 Cows border pop and t38 galley

I can pull in the galley by 1 turn to T37 by working a plains forest (1F2H) instead of a fur camp (1H4C) for 4 turns. That's a trade off of 4F4H (and a sooner galley) for 16C.

Is this worth it?

 

[Mitchum]

T21 was my original idea for Canal. I think Sailing might then require farming the wines before the rice and growing less. I’d rather do that than work a 0f fur this early in the game.

Cows needs to be p6, Science only p4.

Let me run through a test without settling Canal first. Then I'll try out this idea and see what it does to our Sailing (and Galley) date. I'll upload both saves for people to ponder.

I'm assuming that in this test, with delayed Sailing Cows can afford to build an extra wb for Canal while Canal starts on a monument, correct?

 

[WastinTime]

I like that we're trying to explore to find the best sites to settle, but let's not over-do it. We have at least 4 sites already and we could make-do with what we have if that was all we had.
We will not likely settle #6 or #7 until we get IW (either thru alpha or not)
So getting a galley 1t sooner probably doesn't get us 7 cities settled sooner, but instead would delay IW. And i think that should be our goal. Getting the full snowball rolling.
So, how many turns of exploring after the galley is produced do you think it will be until we can reveal all of our (reasonably close) options?

 

[Mitchum]

That depends on whether we send our first wb out scouting or send it to Canal City.

Test 1: No Canal - Sailing T31

Test 2: Canal on T21 (the turn we learn Mysticism) - Sailing T33 or T34 depending on whether we want to work a coastal tile in Cows and delay the fish nets by a turn to pull in Sailing by a turn. I worked the wine farm in Science instead of the nice rice farm to prioritize commerce over food.

All of this could go out the window depending on what we find in the NW though.

Both of these plans are the same through T21 and learning Mysticism. Would we consider settling city #3 before then? If so, more testing would be needed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I like that we're trying to explore to find the best sites to settle, but let's not over-do it. We have at least 4 sites already and we could make-do with what we have if that was all we had.
We will not likely settle #6 or #7 until we get IW (either thru alpha or not)
So getting a galley 1t sooner probably doesn't get us 7 cities settled sooner, but instead would delay IW. And i think that should be our goal. Getting the full snowball rolling.
So, how many turns of exploring after the galley is produced do you think it will be until we can reveal all of our (reasonably close) options?

frankly, I think you and KZ are trusting us two too much in this decision-making process. This post confuses me even more. My basic tech goal has been alpha ASAP, if we decide to go that route. I’m not sure if settling canal sooner or later helps with Alpha.

 

[Mitchum]

Do we know enough to play through Mysticism at least? Or is there still consideration for settling Canal before T21?

Maybe uncovering the NW and finding out if it's a dead end or not might change some of our decisions.

I don't want to play forward if there is any disagreement on Mysticism ASAP and delaying Canal until then.

 

[Kaitzilla]

frankly, I think you and KZ are trusting us two too much in this decision-making process.

Ok, I'll take a 2nd look at everything.
Give me an hour.

 

[WastinTime]

I good with myst ASAP. no canal until then (unless SB approaches)
Let's play as far as we can before we have to decide something critical like expore with wb1 or not, etc.

 

[Mitchum]

Tentative PPP T13 to T21 (through Mysticism):

Binary research: Mysticism (2T at 0%, 6T at 100%)

Science: barracks -> SH (don't complete it)
Cows: wb1 -> monument

Shepherd: partial farm Science-N (1T) -> sheep pasture (4T) -> partial farm Science-N (1T) -> horse pasture (4T)
Cowboy: pasture cow (4T) -> farm Cows-N (5T)

Settler 4 (furthest NW): finish exploring peninsula (and beyond if possible)
Settler 3 (NW by double silver): NNE onto silver hill to defog ocean tiles then either
a) start walking toward 4F+silver site in case the peninsula isn't a peninsula or
b) start walking to Cows to save maintenance and prepare to board a galley
Settler 5 (south of Science): Stay put watching for AI wb
Settler 2 (near Canal City location): move back inside cultural borders and wait to board galley
Settler 7 (near SB): move 1 SE and stay put watching for SB worker/settler

Things to do each turn:
Use espionage to estimate hammers in SB's current build using SabotageProduction*((EspionageByAIOntoYou+100)/(3*InvestigateCity)
Check is SB is working plains river.
Monitor EPs with SB (should be 6:4 ratio)
Check max production.

EDIT: Once I get a green light from 3 or 4, I can play these turns any time between now and 6 PM.

 

[WastinTime]

green light

 

[LowtherCastle]

Green light, but please wait for KZ’s feedback.

S7 could also look to see if SB’s still working the plain river. Monitor SBs epps on us. 6/4 ratio indicates unlikely he’s met anyone else. Also curious if the max AI hammer production goes higher than the 4 it’s been. (I forgot to check t13)