[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

If we are doing UN, we need to figure if Clam City can do both 600 Wall Street and 1000 UN hammers.
The UN needs doing 6 turns before the end?

The Diplo requirement is higher than AP.
I think it is +8 relations to get the vote?

We still gift up France and try to bribe him into the war against Charlie T152.

Sushi is moved back up to T155 and Astro to T158?
Or Astro T151 and Sushi T157?

I'm not sure about religion at the end.
Either free religion for all, or we convert them to Confu.

Yes, we can keep consuming AI if we have the army for it.
Whatever we can bite off and chew.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Saladin loves Theocracy.
He will never take Free Religion.

We either convert him or wipe him out.

Also, Louis gives -2 for refused demands.
If he demands Hereditary Rule, it will be a pain!

 

[WastinTime]

Sushi is moved back up to T155 and Astro to T158?

Can't we get Sushi back to 154 if we're not doing more cats, don't start HE, etc.
Or is it all just forges and courthouses?
Sushi before Astro for sure tho.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Can't we get Sushi back to 154 if we're not doing more cats, don't start HE, etc.
Or is it all just forges and courthouses?
Sushi before Astro for sure tho.

It was purely Monasteries obsoleting and dropping us 50 science per turn that caused Sushi to slip 1 turn.

It can only be done T154 by building 50 research I think.

I think calculations showed T155 with more food and less teching gave more overall food than 1 turn earlier sushi.

I'll give it another look.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Saladin loves Theocracy.
He will never take Free Religion.

We either convert him or wipe him out.

Saladin is the only one who can sign defensive pact at pleased.

If we are seriously considering UN victory, maybe it's time to cancel/defer the amphibious attack on Mound City. Only farm exp on scouts. Now we have a total of -7 permanent negmod with SB. The possible +mods are
peace+1 OB+2 share resource+2 share tech+1 religion+3 fair trade+4 wise civic(environmental)+3? He will vote for us?

 

[WastinTime]

maybe it's time to cancel/defer the amphibious attack

nah, we'll kill SB. We need something for our muskets to do. I like this new casual war pace.
We can have a CR3 accuracy cat to bombard and eventually attack.

If we're gonna make everyone like us and have Peter as an opponent, maybe the best way to win is to get Peter to build the AP in Confu. He's doing Theology. We just have to distract any AI with Theo so they don't build it.
But building 30 confu missionaries is more expensive than the UN.
Either mass convert every city to confu or we'd have to beat Peter down to 1 city-- the AP city.

We'll just play it by ear and plan for the UN. Clams can do it easily. Probably 20 turns without doing anything special.

 

[Mitchum]

If we're considering Diplo, then I think I need to update the AI post, yes? We'll need to keep an accurate count of when we get each plus mod.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I haven’t done the UN in decade but I believe it’s AP +8, UN +10. I’m not certain. We definitely better check it out.

 

[LowtherCastle]

As for winning with Peterbilt AP, AP is 10t between vote, UN, 4t between. That’s the huge benefit of conquest — you can win every 1t.

 

[WastinTime]

accurate count of when we get each plus mod.

It think we are guaranteed to have +2 OB, +2 resource by the end and max out shared war, so we should only need to track tech gifts (but remember those can be forgotten.) Anything else?

At some point we take Caste + FreeReligion (Might have to finish WestPoint, UN, and a couple late buildings without OrgRel bonus, but caste does boost workshops)
Bribe everyone to FR near the end.
Maybe our EPs go on Sal to put him in FreeReligion with a spy a couple turns before the end.

 

[LowtherCastle]

With most or all in FR, we don’t need to be. A required plus mod could be flipping someone to Confu.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Peace also increases our chances of getting a free tech from an AI. Gifting them all up to liberalism increases our chances for free communism.

 

[WastinTime]

With most or all in FR, we don’t need to be.

I was thinking we needed to be in FR for bribing, but maybe they'll take it naturally.
Don't we need to be in FR to use the spy on Sal?
And don't we want the +10% research anyway?

 

[Kaitzilla]

It think we are guaranteed to have +2 OB, +2 resource by the end and max out shared war, so we should only need to track tech gifts (but remember those can be forgotten.) Anything else?

At some point we take Caste + FreeReligion (Might have to finish WestPoint, UN, and a couple late buildings without OrgRel bonus, but caste does boost workshops)
Bribe everyone to FR near the end.
Maybe our EPs go on Sal to put him in FreeReligion with a spy a couple turns before the end.

The game rules state we must end the game running a state religion.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-pre-game-announcement-ii.657202/

I'm not sure we can have free religion at the end.

You must be running a State Religion when you win the game, but it is up to you which one you use however you must have temples of that religion in each city as well as the cathedral in the Prophet city.

 

[Mitchum]

In SGOTMs past, you could "Wait, just let me play one more turn" and then make any changes you wanted before uploading the game. So it's possible that after the vote and the victory screen, we could revolt to our state religion. Should we get this clarified?

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not sure we can have free religion at the end.

right, but I think this works....

would we adopt FreeReligion until the final turn of the game-- after calling for the diplo vote, IIRC, they all vote based on their attitude with you before you switch religion that turn. Cus we have to be in our religion as a game rule.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Among those UN resolutions, there's 1 that force everyone into free religion. It can be revoked in a resolution later right?
Actually I'm still thinking about conquest victory. SB's scouts can generate a steady flow of great general points. We can use generals to create an small army of superheroes. The unit with great general can be upgraded for free. Maybe we can get rifling and fight longbow without bombardment?

 

[WastinTime]

thinking about conquest victory

There are 38 cities now, so with new settling let's say 40. Let's also assume we can prevent re-settling open space by killing settlers.

Even if we can raze one city every other turn, that's T230. I'm pretty sure our research is done before then.
And how can we raze a city, heal, and move to the next that fast? All amphibious attacks?

After finishing SB, Astronomy, and gathering an army at the new world, it will be T170-175 and we will have 35 cities to go.
So really closer to 1 city per turn.

UN victory is only about 4 turns of extra research and we can speed up research by not building an army and paying upkeep. We also get to keep all our sushi resources by not attacking Peter. And a few more resources from the New World. We get gold and silk for the entire game! for +3 happy.

I'm all-in on UN. We could even leave SB alive in one city (with 2 rice) and get 1 more resource. Then we can sell him tech too. and/or steal is gold over and over. Re-pillage. All probably adds up to more than the conquer gold for Cahokia.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Clam City has enough food to 4-pop whip Forge, complete a Trebuchet that can be on the road T155, 3-pop whip a max overflow Courthouse, and 2-pop whip a Sushi Exec.

I'm now thinking our 5xp Catapult beats up that Scout all the way to 20xp by T165.
We pray that Sitting Bull never deletes it for budget reasons.

This frees up our Great General born around T154 to come and promote 4 units.
3xp Warrior -> 8xp Medic 3 Super Medic Warrior
0xp Treb -> 5xp CR1 + Accuracy Trebuchet (-24% bombard!)
3xp Musket -> 8xp Musket (Guerilla 3 Cover Combat I)
3xp Musket -> 8xp Musket (Guerilla 3 Cover Combat I)

These two super muskets will have +25% hill attack and +25% archer attack.
They will also have 50% withdrawal.
Basically, perfect Cahokia killers.

Once we blow the Walls with spy, the Treb can have the defenses to 0% in 3 turns.
Then Super Musket vs. Hill Longbow is 9.9 vs. 11.7 + 1-2 First Strikes.
They will either die or withdraw, but either way they should maul the 2 defending Longbows that will exist by then enough for our other Muskets to finish the city off.

Our Galley can drop Musket + Chariot off near Cahokia T152, come back, get Warrior + Treb...
Uh, where will the great general fit? Let me think..
Galleons won't be an option until T158.
Great General could be born anywhere, there is no telling.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Among those UN resolutions, there's 1 that force everyone into free religion. It can be revoked in a resolution later right?
Actually I'm still thinking about conquest victory. SB's scouts can generate a steady flow of great general points. We can use generals to create an small army of superheroes. The unit with great general can be upgraded for free. Maybe we can get rifling and fight longbow without bombardment?

If we could keep and use the cities we capture, then conquest would be pretty easy.
Everything must be done with the 7 cities we have right now.


Super heroes, hmm
If we get Rifling, we could use 2 Great Generals on a Warrior and 7 Macemen with 3xp.
Then we upgrade the 8xp Maces (Combat I, Guerilla 1, City Raider 3) all into Rifles.
7 * 140 = 980, and they would be killing machines.

Or perhaps true monsters with Combat 3 + Amphibious.
They sail around on 5 Galleons with a Super medic and attack from the sea with 18.2
They will heal up even as the Galleons sail around.
Then when they get 5 more xp, they can get March promotion to heal up every single turn.


Anyway, Rifling costs 3744 and Mass Media costs 5616.
I think we can get a UN win thanks to Clam City production easier and faster than a conquest win.

The new world continent is jam packed full of forests, so even 2 Cuirassiers would have trouble with their traditional forking attacks targeting 2 cities at once and then going for weakness.

Our margin for anger is thin.
How much war weariness would we face conquering the world?
Gold and Silk would be lost in the Arab war.

Then Peter would have to be wiped out last.


I'm sure would could do it, but it would be very stressful with every lost unit having to be replaced from the homeland 7.