elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,706
I did not know that. Thought you only get "appreciate the years" bonus. Does that mean you also can get traded with worst enemy penalty for uneven resource trades?
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 14,036
Not sure there Elite, from experience i would say nope.
We gave away horsies until he got BW (then cancelled so he cannot plot war with 2 possible attack units), along with several health resis that was prolly enuf for fair trade.
I have seen that often in my games, tend to gift away early until i need them back.
Overall i cannot proof it (code), but am very sure.
Also something to consider, they value resis higher as they get more population.
We gave away horsies until he got BW (then cancelled so he cannot plot war with 2 possible attack units), along with several health resis that was prolly enuf for fair trade.
I have seen that often in my games, tend to gift away early until i need them back.
Overall i cannot proof it (code), but am very sure.
Also something to consider, they value resis higher as they get more population.
elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,706
Tested it, you can get traded with worst enemy penalty from gifting resources. It did go up slower than the fair trade diplo bonus. At +2 fair trade I got -1 penalty, at +4 fair trade it went up to -2.
elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,706
Gifted lots of resources t1, fair trade went up with +1/turn. Worldbuildered setup of course.
Thanks Fippy
I see the very early Horse gift now, so PR definitely gave SB more resources than we did at the start.
I really never knew resources affect Fair Trade.
Last edited:
I wonder how gifs work with my picture hosting site?
Eh, the quality is low and the top and bottom are voids.
Can see turn-by-turn tech progression of the AI easily though.
Just need a better .gif maker I think.
Eh, the quality is low and the top and bottom are voids.
Can see turn-by-turn tech progression of the AI easily though.
Just need a better .gif maker I think.
Last edited:
So T115 PR about 5k ahead in tech but most of this is from 2 extra bulbs. Plus HS can trade for nearly 2k worth of techs when they reach friendly with local ai. So really nothing in it. HS waiting on Friendly ai.
Both teams have 2x golden ages coming up or in progress. If things continue like this you would have to suggest lib on med is the main cause for the 10 turn loss. See what Kait's following reviews show. I can't see anything to suggest HS was falling greatly behind at this stage. They will get a stack load of great people in next 20-30 turns. The lead science at 100% is still in PR favour but it does not look like were maintaining 100% where HS are with fail gold. It's interesting how the two strategies are working out mid game wise.
Both teams have 2x golden ages coming up or in progress. If things continue like this you would have to suggest lib on med is the main cause for the 10 turn loss. See what Kait's following reviews show. I can't see anything to suggest HS was falling greatly behind at this stage. They will get a stack load of great people in next 20-30 turns. The lead science at 100% is still in PR favour but it does not look like were maintaining 100% where HS are with fail gold. It's interesting how the two strategies are working out mid game wise.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 14,036
I would say on 115 PR were way ahead in population (reflected on the score graph).
HS are waiting for Feuda trade yup, but we also got this one for free.
Optics and Astro allow diplo & trades with 4 new AIs, and pay back some research (or in our case bulbing) cost each turn.
Philo (aka Paci) sooner creates some spare gold with no upkeep cost, and ofc earlier GP.
PR lack CS which also costs us each turn.
Comparing beakers is interesting, but won't show the "each turn value" of techs.
We can use Astro as example, if one team got it 40 turns sooner than another team they lost out on 40t of trading, routes commerce, Observatories etc.
After those 40 turns getting it for free via trade might barely break even with selfresearch / bulbs.
HS are waiting for Feuda trade yup, but we also got this one for free.
Optics and Astro allow diplo & trades with 4 new AIs, and pay back some research (or in our case bulbing) cost each turn.
Philo (aka Paci) sooner creates some spare gold with no upkeep cost, and ofc earlier GP.
PR lack CS which also costs us each turn.
Comparing beakers is interesting, but won't show the "each turn value" of techs.
We can use Astro as example, if one team got it 40 turns sooner than another team they lost out on 40t of trading, routes commerce, Observatories etc.
After those 40 turns getting it for free via trade might barely break even with selfresearch / bulbs.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,631
My hunch: the most mind-boggling statistic will be the total amount of maintenance costs paid by HS versus PR.
right. Did PR even bother with courthouses?
Tonny
King
We only build the one necessary for this scenario.
920AD
PR 612BPT -53CM -101 overall
HS 376BPT -68CM -145 overall
1010AD
PR 684BPT -54CM -109 Overall
HS 433BPT -117CM -177 Overall
1060AD
PR 835 -55CM -113 Overall
HS 645 -132CM -201 overall
1150AD
PR 772BPT -17CM -78 overall
HS 651BPT -115CM -92 overall
1250AD
PR 987BPT -20CM -84 overall..
HS 1061BPT -122CM -74 Overall.
1320AD
PR 1075BPT -20CM -79 overall.
HS 1137 -147CM -54 overall.
1450ad maintenance
PR 1278BPT -20CM -93 overall.
HS 1323 -161CM -144 overall .
By 1200ad or so HS has caught up science wise. On average behind by about 200 on 3 of the 4 saves I picked (I used the dates you uploaded.). Of those saves HS were 0% science on 2 turns.
PR ran full science to end of game from 920ad. PR had a GM outside Sal's capital at 920ad for 1700gold. We may have been waiting for Bibs to grow to size 14 for 1900. Think PR ran another mission later as PR had 2500 gold come 1250ad or so. Prior to this I think PR had to run 0% science quite a bit on and off.
Maintenance, the difference between teams was -13 to -141 at 1450ad. Meaning HS were likely forced to run merchants.
It's about 920-1060ad the -10k delta of SC vs med has kicked in. You had likely finsihed bulbing techs. We bulbed electricity with 4 GS. Refrig/SC was 17k in tech which was never recovered.
At 1250ad your science lead was 74bpt. 1450ad your science lead was 50 or so. Golden age helped PR late game.
Over 60-70 turns you needed to clear 10k bpt to recover med vs SC opportunity cost. Shall we say 8k with 20% discount. Up to 1150ad if those numbers stayed constant that is -5k. With maybe +2.4k beakers for final 30 turns? If game had lasted longer for PR likely over 100 beakers a turn in favour of HS. Especially if you hit 1600-1800bpt.
Med and sushi may have cost you most of the 17k beakers here compared to PR saves.
PR 612BPT -53CM -101 overall
HS 376BPT -68CM -145 overall
1010AD
PR 684BPT -54CM -109 Overall
HS 433BPT -117CM -177 Overall
1060AD
PR 835 -55CM -113 Overall
HS 645 -132CM -201 overall
1150AD
PR 772BPT -17CM -78 overall
HS 651BPT -115CM -92 overall
1250AD
PR 987BPT -20CM -84 overall..
HS 1061BPT -122CM -74 Overall.
1320AD
PR 1075BPT -20CM -79 overall.
HS 1137 -147CM -54 overall.
1450ad maintenance
PR 1278BPT -20CM -93 overall.
HS 1323 -161CM -144 overall .
By 1200ad or so HS has caught up science wise. On average behind by about 200 on 3 of the 4 saves I picked (I used the dates you uploaded.). Of those saves HS were 0% science on 2 turns.
PR ran full science to end of game from 920ad. PR had a GM outside Sal's capital at 920ad for 1700gold. We may have been waiting for Bibs to grow to size 14 for 1900. Think PR ran another mission later as PR had 2500 gold come 1250ad or so. Prior to this I think PR had to run 0% science quite a bit on and off.
Maintenance, the difference between teams was -13 to -141 at 1450ad. Meaning HS were likely forced to run merchants.
It's about 920-1060ad the -10k delta of SC vs med has kicked in. You had likely finsihed bulbing techs. We bulbed electricity with 4 GS. Refrig/SC was 17k in tech which was never recovered.
At 1250ad your science lead was 74bpt. 1450ad your science lead was 50 or so. Golden age helped PR late game.
Over 60-70 turns you needed to clear 10k bpt to recover med vs SC opportunity cost. Shall we say 8k with 20% discount. Up to 1150ad if those numbers stayed constant that is -5k. With maybe +2.4k beakers for final 30 turns? If game had lasted longer for PR likely over 100 beakers a turn in favour of HS. Especially if you hit 1600-1800bpt.
Med and sushi may have cost you most of the 17k beakers here compared to PR saves.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,631
Right. PR got early GSes without needing a GA, right. Another consideration in this game is not running the GAs till cities have reached max population, or at least max tike usage. Maybe not even running the 3-GP golden age.
Similarly, GS bulbs were relatively weak because of our pop limitations. GMs were relatively more powerful, as they often are.
Question for PR: Given this debriefing, hoe many turns faster do you think you could have played this, adding more failgold or Nat Park, or whatever? What’s the lower limit?
Similarly, GS bulbs were relatively weak because of our pop limitations. GMs were relatively more powerful, as they often are.
Question for PR: Given this debriefing, hoe many turns faster do you think you could have played this, adding more failgold or Nat Park, or whatever? What’s the lower limit?
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 25,118
Only one (pretty late) Academy in Bibs for us.
With less weird GP born at ~15% chances we might have built another one in quador cow/glh city, but iirc more academies were never really discussed.
Imo we surged ahead early with GLH and Caste, then lost some ground late to no National Park and slowed down AI partners in Merc.
I'd estimate that a perfectly played 2nd half would have set our fastest possible date at around turn 204 (3-4 turns each for NP and Steel).
But no way to tell if other things would have timed out under much more "pressure".
LC, quoting a post from My here where she basically answered your question.
NP would have certainly helped if we'd thought about it. However, we could have significantly improved the date I believe by enabling the AIs earlier and not being overly cautious on Privateers. A couple more Free Techs like Steel would have been huge, and we were on top of the AP to adjust based on a faster finish date.
I'd say we ran 100% research a majority of the game. For some time we had 0 unit and supply costs. 2 GM missions and traded for as much gold as we could and a few begs. A good bit of fail gold early, but fail gold became irrelevant later. We also pillaged HRE to dust.
Last edited:
DanF5771 talks about religion spread more in this post.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-15-kakumeika.451560/page-38#post-11295194
Postgame Analysis Part 4
Link to Team Saves
Link to SGOTM 26 Game Rules (Requirements for Victory)
Link to Postgame Analysis Part 3
(Hold down Control on keyboard and left click links to open a new tab for easier viewing)
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T127, up to T129, up to T131, and up to T135
Screenshots on T135
Phoenix Rising on Turn 135
Phoenix Rising teched Nationalism, Printing Press, a lot of Liberalism, and a bunch of Gunpowder by T135.
They received Guilds from trades.
Their teching assets are 1202
, 1 Great Scientist, and an Academy in Capital City.
Population is at 69 with 5 workers.
On Turn 135, their tech path to victory is at 32183
/138k (23.32% complete)
27082 is domestic research and 5101 is from AI trades.
The diplo situation overseas was like the wild west.
Saladin DOW'd Charlemagne on T126, and then Charlemagne signed another Cease Fire with Germany.
So far Charlie has DOW'd Bismarck twice, Bismarck DOW'd Charlemagne once, and Saladin DOW'd Charlemagne once.
Charlemagne is the Worst Enemy of Bismarck, Saladin, and Louis.
PR boosted potential trading partner Bismarck on T127 by trading him Feudalism, Music, Civil Service, and Calendar.
700GPP Great Scientist was born in South City on T126!
It was used to make an Academy in Capital City on T127.
800GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City on T128.
On T129, PR switched to Christianity the last turn of 1st Golden Age to gain total control of AP religion!
They also switched civics to Slavery + Org. Religion.
Apostolic Palace was completed by the start of T130!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
(3rd Great Wonder)
If I remember my AP mechanics right, only general elections can be held until Christianity spreads to 2 different AI.
So the vote will be null T140, T141, T142, T143, with another general election T144.
Then the vote will be null T154, T155, T156, T157, with another general election T158
Ultimately this leads to votes on T210
, T211, T212, T213, with a general election on T214.
This could be altered with some Christian spread occuring earlier and a vote is taken on an issue like Open Borders or Holy War or somesuch.
I'll try to pay attention to what happens with AP.
On T130, PR got a huge payday of +1500 when they used their 600GPP Great Merchant to do a trade mission to Mecca which had Temple of Artemis.
Mecca had no harbor, but Capital City did have 12 population.
1st Golden Age was over by T130.
Taj Majal was completed by the start of T134 using a 200GPP Great Engineer tp rush 700
complete without marble! (4th Great Wonder)
2nd Golden Age begun T134!
PR immediately switched to Caste + Pacifism civics and Confucianism religion.
They traded Peter Civil Service + Pacifism to get Guilds T144.
PR is continuing to curry favor with the small overseas AI by spreading Confu to Bismarck who has 3 cities. (Should be enough to bribe to Confu later I think)
They got another lucky Confu spread to Saladin's 5th city, and they are sending another Confu Missionary over from FarNW City.
Getting 2 Arab cities out of 5 might be enough to bribe him to Confu since he has only 3 Hindu cities.
By T135, PR has Harbors in all 6 coastal cities to get max +4 trade routes.
They also have 2 Observatories and a Christian Monastery in Island City giving +2 to fulfill the game rules.
Most of University if Sankore is complete in Capital City.
Homes Slices teched Literature, Music, Economics, Nationalism, and most of Gunpowder by T135.
They received Compass in trades.
Their teching assets are 226, 3 Great Scientists, 1 Great Artist, and 1 Great Merchant
Population is at 70 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 135, their tech path to victory is at 25139/137k (18.34% complete)
20381 is domestic research and 4758 is from AI trades.
Friendly Sitting Bull achieved on T125!
revealed he was teching Construction which Homies already had.
HS traded Banking to Peter for Compass and switch to Slavery + Org. Religion on T127.
Peter had Temple of Artemis in Moscow, so the Homies hoped Peter would whip a half-price Harbor complete in Moscow (Peter is Expansive) to enable a 1500 trade mission (Capital City is 9 population 
)
Free Great Artist born on T128 due to teching Music before the 4 unknown AI.
HS started their 1st Golden Age on T128 using the free Great Artist from Music.
Homies immediately adopted Caste + Pacifism + Mercantilism civic (+1 free specialist each city, no foreign trade routes)
Parthenon was completed T129 in FarNW City to boost GPP production +50%!(4th Great Wonder)
It was chosen over Taj due to FarNW being able to generate a great person instead of working hammer tiles plus all 7 cities furiously trying to generate Great People over 2 golden ages with turns in between to build back up.
200GPP Great Artist was born in East City T129! (7% odds)
National Epic was completed T130 in Capital City (thanks marble!) to boost GPP production +100% in the future National Park city.
Free Great Merchant was born T131 from teching Economics.
It was quickly sent towards Moscow as the Homies were starting to go broke.
300GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City T131!
400GPP Great Scientist was born in Central City T133!
500GPP Great Scientist was born in East City T134!
By T135, Homies are plotting to wipe out Sitting Bull in the 1st step towards conquering the world.
Surely 1 of the 4 new AI has a 2nd Iron to build Eiffel Tower (no Mass Media) and allow a lot of Cannons + Frigates to be built?
Sitting Bull is teching towards Feudalism by T146, so a switch to drafting Muskets will require 2-3 Galleys and 2 Triremes to pull off an attack before Longbows.
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T139 and up to T145
Screenshots on T145
Phoenix Rising on Turn 145
Phoenix Rising teched Engineering, Gunpowder, Chemistry, and Scientific Method by T145.
They received Banking from trades.
Their teching assets are 655 in overflow, 730, 1 Great Scientist, 1 Great Merchant, and an Academy in Capital City.
Population is at 73 with 5 workers.
On Turn 145, their tech path to victory is at 41880/138k (30.35% complete)
35687 is domestic research and 6193 is from AI trades.
University of Sankore was completed T137 in Capital City! (5th World Wonder)
Both teams now have 5 World Wonders with PR needing a Spy Great Wonder and HS needing a Merchant Great Wonder.
PR also bribed tiny Bismarck to convert to Confucianism T137 with just 1 Confu city to improve relations.
Saladin got Civil Service, Philosophy, Theology, and Feudalism T137.
Louis got Theology T137, Civil Service T138, Machinery + Feudalism T140, and Music T141.
Bismarck got Philosophy T137, Nationalism + Engineering T139, and Optics T145.
Peter, Sitting Bull, Saladin, and Louis all adopted Bureaucracy within 2 turns.
PR's 2nd Golden Age was over by T142.
900GPP Great Merchant was born in West City T144! (13% odds)
It quickly crossed the ocean to Holy Roman Empire along with a Warrior + Musket that was built in Capital City.
PR chopped complete National Epic in Northwest City on T144, their city with the most!
This city with Taj will be probably be crucial to birth a 100% Great Artist in the future needed to secure an AP victory with a Mass Media bulb.
By T145 the PR diplomacy with Saladin has faltered with -1 for war against Charlemagne denial and -1 for refusing to stop trading with Charlemagne.
2 of 5 Saladin cities are Confucianism (Charlemagne captured Baghdad from Saladin T140), but Saladin requires Friendly before he can be bribed to switch religions.
France has 2 Iron, but -3 traded with worst enemies if preventing PR from reaching Pleased for now.
Holy Roman Empire being the only source of Wheat is protecting them from the Phoenixians for now, but on T151 a border pop in East City will allow PR to get their own wheat.
Homes Slices teched Optics, Gunpowder, Economics, Constitution, and most of Corporation by T145.
They received Archery and Horseback Riding in trades (both not required)
They also bulbed half of Astronomy for 1707
Their teching assets are 55, 5 Great Scientists, and 2 Great Merchants
Population is at 65 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 145, their tech path to victory is at 33365/137k (24.35% complete)
28607 is domestic research and 4758 is from AI trades.
HS switched to the Nationhood civic T135 and kept it all the way to T145 to draft a decently sized army of Muskets to conquer Sitting Bull.
600GPP Great Merchant was born in West City on T136! (64% odds)
It was sent north to found Sid's Sushi at Northwest City in the future.
On T136, most of Printing Press was bulbed by the 300GPP Great Scientist.
HS's 1st Golden Age was over by T136.
They also bribed Sitting Bull into the Caste civic.
The 1 turn of Anarchy slowed down Feudalism 1 turn and would keep SB from whipping for 10 turns in the future war.
HS met Charlemagne T137 due to Optics giving +1 vision to Island City's borders.
This is 34 turns later than PR.
Charlemagne was plotting or was at war with someone HS can't see yet.
HS met Saladin T137 due to a wandering workboat close to Charlemagne's island city.
This is 32 turns later than PR.
A Trireme was upgraded to a Caravel near East City on T137 for 50 to race east and get circumnavigation bonus.
A 2nd Trireme was slowly constructed in Cow City by T141 to send over a scouting Great Person to explore the new continent starting T146.
HS begged Peter for some T138.
700GPP Great Merchant was born in Island City on T139! (51% odds)
HS got +1
for naval unit circumnavigation bonus on T141!
This is 35 turns later than PR
HS met Bismarck T142 due to a galley dropping of a Great Merchant in Peter's land and sailing south with +1 Optics vision.
This is 40 turns later than PR.
Bismarck is at war with Charlemagne and are worst enemies with each other.
HS signed Open Borders T142 with Bismarck, Charlemagne, and Saladin after some map trading.
2nd Golden Age begun T142!
The 200GPP Great Artist and 700GPP Great Merchant were used.
800GPP Great Scientist was born in South City on T142!
900GPP Great Scientist was born in Capital City on T144!
1000GPP Great Scientist was born in East City on T145!
Peter built The Great Library in Moscow T143 (Peter is Philosophical
)
Still no half-priced Harbor in Moscow for trade mission.
By T145, HS has seen the map of the whole world for 3 turns and are enthusiastic about conquering the world with France's Iron and skipping Mass Media.
Sushi was acknowledged to be slower teching than planned due to lack of AI resources, but +10 for each city (plus whatever we could get from Peter) was assumed to give an advantage over Liberalism for a 10000 tech even with fewer resources.
Combined with +7 scientists in Capital City due to National Park (+130 per turn?), it should be a decisive advantage over PR.
Sitting Bull is 1 turn away from Feudalism while HS wants to attack T147, so SB will soon be gifted Nationalism and bribed into Nationhood.
That will cause 1 turn of Anarchy and lock SB into Caste for 10 turns.
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T147, up to T149, up to T150, and up to T152
Screenshots on T152
Phoenix Rising on Turn 152
Phoenix Rising teched Biology and some of Physics by T152.
Their teching assets are 347, 1 Great Scientist, 1 Great Merchant, 1 Great Artist, and an Academy in Capital City.
Population is at 75 with 5 workers.
On Turn 152, their tech path to victory is at 48208/138k (34.93% complete)
42015 is domestic research and 6193 is from AI trades.
1000GPP Great Artist born in Northwest City! (13% odds) 
PR needs a Great Artist to win the game, but they probably hoped for a Great Scientist to bulb Physics since they can make a 100% Great Artist in Northwest City later using National Epic if they wanted.
On T150, Bismarck DOW'd Holy Roman Empire again and captured Munich back.
Christianity spread to the HRE island city too.
If Christianity spreads to a 3rd civ, that will activate AP resolutions and the 14 turn election cycle will be broken.
By T152, PR has 3 Muskets + 1 Warrior (healer?) ready to attack Holy Roman Empire as soon as the Wheat is hooked up next turn.
The main 3 cities in the center of their empire have tons of Biology powered farms to grow with.
AI relations are:
+9 Bismarck
-2 Saladin
+1 France
-1 Holy Roman Empire
Homes Slices teched Corporation, Printing Press, Chemistry, Scientific Method, Biology, and some of Liberalism by T152.
They bulbed Chemistry, x2 bulbed Scientific Method, and x3 bulbed Biology
They received Engineering and Calendar in trades.
Their teching assets are 169, 1 Great Scientist, and 2 Great Merchants
Population is at 58 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 152, their tech path to victory is at 49774/137k (36.32% complete)
42910 is domestic research and 6864 is from AI trades.
On T145, HS bribed Peter into Caste with Nationalism to keep him out of Mercantilism for 10 more turns.
Sitting Bull got Nationalism and then Metal Casting to switch to Nationhood and lock in Caste for 10 turns. (Also delayed Feudalism 1 more turn)
Caravels would counter any Triremes Sitting Bull slowly built.
DOW'd friendly Sitting Bull T146!
The 1st city was guarded by Archers and quickly fell with a Spy revolt.
1200GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City T147!
1400GPP Great Scientist was born in FarNW City T148!
HS adopted Bureaucracy, Slavery, and Organized Religion civics on T148.
2nd Golden Age was over by T149.
Homies traded Printing Press + Optics to Peter for Engineering + DOW against Sitting Bull T149 for shared war bonus.
After using 6 Great Scientists to bulb Chemistry, Scientific Method, and Biology, HS got Calendar in trade from Bismarck since it was convenient.
On T150, the Arabs started plotting war with a fist icon (Ya, they were targeting the Homies!)
HS met Louis on T150!
This is 42 turns after PR.
Open Borders was immediately signed.
Louis was Hindu just like the Arabs and Germans
HS decisively switched from Conquest to UN Victory on T150 after meeting Louis and realizing that Iron will take a while to get.
Louis hates different religion and requires Pleased to trade Iron.
Homies would have much rather met De Gaulle or Napoleon who don't mind religion and requires Cautious to trade Iron.
HS experienced a minor crisis T151 as Germany demanded they join the war against Charlemagne.
Charlie had open borders with Saladin and HS had a Great Scientist scouting towards France.
If it got captured by a wandering HRE unit, that would be disaster!!!
F4 screen revealed Bismarck's turn goes before Charlemagne since it goes from the portraits left-to-right
F5 screen showed no Holy Roman Empire units near the Great Scientist.
F4 screen again showed HRE did not have Engineering for 3 on roads or horse resource.
DOW'd Holy Roman Empire T151!
Great Scientist survived.
A diabolic plan was hatched by LowtherCastle to farm Great Generals and eventually settle them in Capital City to created +1000 from nothing.
Fighting Scouts with Catapults in home territory + Great Wall gave +200% Great General points (triple).
There is no war weariness from the homeland battles, and the Catapults take no damage after the 1st attack.
Scout heals 5% hp each turn in enemy territory, so the Catapult that attacked the Sitting Bull Scout gained +3 Great General Points and +1xp, each turn, forever.
Yes, the Catapult was not able to attack on T150 for some reason, but it gained 1xp each turn after that.
By T152, the Homies have drafted 11 Muskets and destroyed 2 Sitting Bull cities.
All the population and buildings vanished in a puff of smoke.
With the catapult going to 20xp purely by attacking the SB scout, the southern invasion turned into a bit of a side show.
The pillage and capture are still appreciated.
The 2 golden ages spread over 21 turns spawned 11 Great People.
It took perfect execution, birthed all the wanted Great Scientists, and over 1 week of planning.
Lots of interesting links this turnset from Home Slices.
====================================
Link to Postgame Analysis Part 5
Link to Team Saves
Link to SGOTM 26 Game Rules (Requirements for Victory)
Link to Postgame Analysis Part 3
(Hold down Control on keyboard and left click links to open a new tab for easier viewing)
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T127, up to T129, up to T131, and up to T135
Screenshots on T135
Phoenix Rising on Turn 135
Spoiler :
Phoenix Rising teched Nationalism, Printing Press, a lot of Liberalism, and a bunch of Gunpowder by T135.
They received Guilds from trades.
Their teching assets are 1202
, 1 Great Scientist, and an Academy in Capital City.Population is at 69 with 5 workers.
On Turn 135, their tech path to victory is at 32183
/138k (23.32% complete)27082
is domestic research and 5101 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
Saladin DOW'd Charlemagne on T126, and then Charlemagne signed another Cease Fire with Germany.
So far Charlie has DOW'd Bismarck twice, Bismarck DOW'd Charlemagne once, and Saladin DOW'd Charlemagne once.
Charlemagne is the Worst Enemy of Bismarck, Saladin, and Louis.
PR boosted potential trading partner Bismarck on T127 by trading him Feudalism, Music, Civil Service, and Calendar.
700GPP Great Scientist was born in South City on T126!
It was used to make an Academy in Capital City on T127.
800GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City on T128.
On T129, PR switched to Christianity the last turn of 1st Golden Age to gain total control of AP religion!
They also switched civics to Slavery + Org. Religion.
Apostolic Palace was completed by the start of T130!
(3rd Great Wonder)If I remember my AP mechanics right, only general elections can be held until Christianity spreads to 2 different AI.
So the vote will be null T140, T141, T142, T143, with another general election T144.
Then the vote will be null T154, T155, T156, T157, with another general election T158
Ultimately this leads to votes on T210
, T211, T212, T213, with a general election on T214.This could be altered with some Christian spread occuring earlier and a vote is taken on an issue like Open Borders or Holy War or somesuch.
I'll try to pay attention to what happens with AP.
On T130, PR got a huge payday of +1500
when they used their 600GPP Great Merchant to do a trade mission to Mecca which had Temple of Artemis.Mecca had no harbor, but Capital City did have 12 population.
1st Golden Age was over by T130.
Taj Majal was completed by the start of T134 using a 200GPP Great Engineer tp rush 700
complete without marble! (4th Great Wonder)2nd Golden Age begun T134!
PR immediately switched to Caste + Pacifism civics and Confucianism religion.
They traded Peter Civil Service + Pacifism to get Guilds T144.
PR is continuing to curry favor with the small overseas AI by spreading Confu to Bismarck who has 3 cities. (Should be enough to bribe to Confu later I think)
They got another lucky Confu spread to Saladin's 5th city, and they are sending another Confu Missionary over from FarNW City.
Getting 2 Arab cities out of 5 might be enough to bribe him to Confu since he has only 3 Hindu cities.
By T135, PR has Harbors in all 6 coastal cities to get max +4
trade routes.They also have 2 Observatories and a Christian Monastery in Island City giving +2
to fulfill the game rules.Most of University if Sankore is complete in Capital City.
Homes Slices teched Literature, Music, Economics, Nationalism, and most of Gunpowder by T135.
They received Compass in trades.
Their teching assets are 226
, 3 Great Scientists, 1 Great Artist, and 1 Great MerchantPopulation is at 70 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 135, their tech path to victory is at 25139
/137k (18.34% complete)20381
is domestic research and 4758 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
revealed he was teching Construction which Homies already had.HS traded Banking to Peter for Compass and switch to Slavery + Org. Religion on T127.
Peter had Temple of Artemis in Moscow, so the Homies hoped Peter would whip a half-price Harbor complete in Moscow (Peter is Expansive) to enable a 1500
trade mission (Capital City is 9 population )Free Great Artist born on T128 due to teching Music before the 4 unknown AI.
HS started their 1st Golden Age on T128 using the free Great Artist from Music.
Homies immediately adopted Caste + Pacifism + Mercantilism civic (+1 free specialist each city, no foreign trade routes)
Parthenon was completed T129 in FarNW City to boost GPP production +50%!
(4th Great Wonder)It was chosen over Taj due to FarNW being able to generate a great person instead of working hammer tiles plus all 7 cities furiously trying to generate Great People over 2 golden ages with turns in between to build
back up.200GPP Great Artist was born in East City T129! (7% odds)
National Epic was completed T130 in Capital City (thanks marble!) to boost GPP production +100% in the future National Park city.
Free Great Merchant was born T131 from teching Economics.
It was quickly sent towards Moscow as the Homies were starting to go broke.
300GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City T131!
400GPP Great Scientist was born in Central City T133!
500GPP Great Scientist was born in East City T134!
By T135, Homies are plotting to wipe out Sitting Bull in the 1st step towards conquering the world.
Surely 1 of the 4 new AI has a 2nd Iron to build Eiffel Tower (no Mass Media) and allow a lot of Cannons + Frigates to be built?
Sitting Bull is teching towards Feudalism by T146, so a switch to drafting Muskets will require 2-3 Galleys and 2 Triremes to pull off an attack before Longbows.
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T139 and up to T145
Screenshots on T145
Phoenix Rising on Turn 145
Spoiler :
Phoenix Rising teched Engineering, Gunpowder, Chemistry, and Scientific Method by T145.
They received Banking from trades.
Their teching assets are 655
in overflow, 730, 1 Great Scientist, 1 Great Merchant, and an Academy in Capital City.Population is at 73 with 5 workers.
On Turn 145, their tech path to victory is at 41880
/138k (30.35% complete)35687
is domestic research and 6193 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
(5th World Wonder)Both teams now have 5 World Wonders with PR needing a Spy Great Wonder and HS needing a Merchant Great Wonder.
PR also bribed tiny Bismarck to convert to Confucianism T137 with just 1 Confu city to improve relations.
Saladin got Civil Service, Philosophy, Theology, and Feudalism T137.
Louis got Theology T137, Civil Service T138, Machinery + Feudalism T140, and Music T141.
Bismarck got Philosophy T137, Nationalism + Engineering T139, and Optics T145.
Peter, Sitting Bull, Saladin, and Louis all adopted Bureaucracy within 2 turns.
PR's 2nd Golden Age was over by T142.
900GPP Great Merchant was born in West City T144! (13% odds)
It quickly crossed the ocean to Holy Roman Empire along with a Warrior + Musket that was built in Capital City.
PR chopped complete National Epic in Northwest City on T144, their city with the most
! This city with Taj will be probably be crucial to birth a 100% Great Artist in the future needed to secure an AP victory with a Mass Media bulb.
By T145 the PR diplomacy with Saladin has faltered with -1 for war against Charlemagne denial and -1 for refusing to stop trading with Charlemagne.
2 of 5 Saladin cities are Confucianism (Charlemagne captured Baghdad from Saladin T140), but Saladin requires Friendly before he can be bribed to switch religions.
France has 2 Iron, but -3 traded with worst enemies if preventing PR from reaching Pleased for now.
Holy Roman Empire being the only source of Wheat is protecting them from the Phoenixians for now, but on T151 a border pop in East City will allow PR to get their own wheat.
Homes Slices teched Optics, Gunpowder, Economics, Constitution, and most of Corporation by T145.
They received Archery and Horseback Riding in trades (both not required)
They also bulbed half of Astronomy for 1707
Their teching assets are 55
, 5 Great Scientists, and 2 Great MerchantsPopulation is at 65 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 145, their tech path to victory is at 33365
/137k (24.35% complete)28607
is domestic research and 4758 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
600GPP Great Merchant was born in West City on T136! (64% odds)
It was sent north to found Sid's Sushi at Northwest City in the future.
On T136, most of Printing Press was bulbed by the 300GPP Great Scientist.
HS's 1st Golden Age was over by T136.
They also bribed Sitting Bull into the Caste civic.
The 1 turn of Anarchy slowed down Feudalism 1 turn and would keep SB from whipping for 10 turns in the future war.
HS met Charlemagne T137 due to Optics giving +1 vision to Island City's borders.
This is 34 turns later than PR.
Charlemagne was plotting or was at war with someone HS can't see yet.
HS met Saladin T137 due to a wandering workboat close to Charlemagne's island city.
This is 32 turns later than PR.
A Trireme was upgraded to a Caravel near East City on T137 for 50
to race east and get circumnavigation bonus.A 2nd Trireme was slowly constructed in Cow City by T141 to send over a scouting Great Person to explore the new continent starting T146.
HS begged Peter for some
T138.700GPP Great Merchant was born in Island City on T139! (51% odds)
HS got +1
for naval unit circumnavigation bonus on T141!This is 35 turns later than PR
HS met Bismarck T142 due to a galley dropping of a Great Merchant in Peter's land and sailing south with +1 Optics vision.
This is 40 turns later than PR.
Bismarck is at war with Charlemagne and are worst enemies with each other.
HS signed Open Borders T142 with Bismarck, Charlemagne, and Saladin after some map trading.
2nd Golden Age begun T142!
The 200GPP Great Artist and 700GPP Great Merchant were used.
800GPP Great Scientist was born in South City on T142!
900GPP Great Scientist was born in Capital City on T144!
1000GPP Great Scientist was born in East City on T145!
Peter built The Great Library in Moscow T143 (Peter is Philosophical
)Still no half-priced Harbor in Moscow for trade mission.
By T145, HS has seen the map of the whole world for 3 turns and are enthusiastic about conquering the world with France's Iron and skipping Mass Media.
Sushi was acknowledged to be slower teching than planned due to lack of AI resources, but +10
for each city (plus whatever we could get from Peter) was assumed to give an advantage over Liberalism for a 10000 tech even with fewer resources.Combined with +7 scientists in Capital City due to National Park (+130
per turn?), it should be a decisive advantage over PR. Sitting Bull is 1 turn away from Feudalism while HS wants to attack T147, so SB will soon be gifted Nationalism and bribed into Nationhood.
That will cause 1 turn of Anarchy and lock SB into Caste for 10 turns.
====================================
Homeslice Turnset Report up to T147, up to T149, up to T150, and up to T152
Screenshots on T152
Phoenix Rising on Turn 152
Spoiler :
Phoenix Rising teched Biology and some of Physics by T152.
Their teching assets are 347
, 1 Great Scientist, 1 Great Merchant, 1 Great Artist, and an Academy in Capital City.Population is at 75 with 5 workers.
On Turn 152, their tech path to victory is at 48208
/138k (34.93% complete)42015
is domestic research and 6193 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
PR needs a Great Artist to win the game, but they probably hoped for a Great Scientist to bulb Physics since they can make a 100% Great Artist in Northwest City later using National Epic if they wanted.
On T150, Bismarck DOW'd Holy Roman Empire again and captured Munich back.
Christianity spread to the HRE island city too.
If Christianity spreads to a 3rd civ, that will activate AP resolutions and the 14 turn election cycle will be broken.
By T152, PR has 3 Muskets + 1 Warrior (healer?) ready to attack Holy Roman Empire as soon as the Wheat is hooked up next turn.
The main 3 cities in the center of their empire have tons of Biology powered farms to grow with.
AI relations are:
+9 Bismarck
-2 Saladin
+1 France
-1 Holy Roman Empire
Homes Slices teched Corporation, Printing Press, Chemistry, Scientific Method, Biology, and some of Liberalism by T152.
They bulbed Chemistry, x2 bulbed Scientific Method, and x3 bulbed Biology
They received Engineering and Calendar in trades.
Their teching assets are 169
, 1 Great Scientist, and 2 Great MerchantsPopulation is at 58 with 6 Workers.
On Turn 152, their tech path to victory is at 49774
/137k (36.32% complete)42910
is domestic research and 6864 is from AI trades.Spoiler :
Sitting Bull got Nationalism and then Metal Casting to switch to Nationhood and lock in Caste for 10 turns. (Also delayed Feudalism 1 more turn)
Caravels would counter any Triremes Sitting Bull slowly built.
DOW'd friendly Sitting Bull T146!
The 1st city was guarded by Archers and quickly fell with a Spy revolt.
1200GPP Great Scientist was born in Northwest City T147!
1400GPP Great Scientist was born in FarNW City T148!
HS adopted Bureaucracy, Slavery, and Organized Religion civics on T148.
2nd Golden Age was over by T149.
Homies traded Printing Press + Optics to Peter for Engineering + DOW against Sitting Bull T149 for shared war bonus.
After using 6 Great Scientists to bulb Chemistry, Scientific Method, and Biology, HS got Calendar in trade from Bismarck since it was convenient.
On T150, the Arabs started plotting war with a fist icon (Ya, they were targeting the Homies!)
HS met Louis on T150!
This is 42 turns after PR.
Open Borders was immediately signed.
Louis was Hindu just like the Arabs and Germans
HS decisively switched from Conquest to UN Victory on T150 after meeting Louis and realizing that Iron will take a while to get.
Louis hates different religion and requires Pleased to trade Iron.
Homies would have much rather met De Gaulle or Napoleon who don't mind religion and requires Cautious to trade Iron.
HS experienced a minor crisis T151 as Germany demanded they join the war against Charlemagne.
Charlie had open borders with Saladin and HS had a Great Scientist scouting towards France.
If it got captured by a wandering HRE unit, that would be disaster!!!
F4 screen revealed Bismarck's turn goes before Charlemagne since it goes from the portraits left-to-right
F5 screen showed no Holy Roman Empire units near the Great Scientist.
F4 screen again showed HRE did not have Engineering for 3
on roads or horse resource.DOW'd Holy Roman Empire T151!
Great Scientist survived.
A diabolic plan was hatched by LowtherCastle to farm Great Generals and eventually settle them in Capital City to created +1000
from nothing.Fighting Scouts with Catapults in home territory + Great Wall gave +200% Great General points (triple).
There is no war weariness from the homeland battles, and the Catapults take no damage after the 1st attack.
Scout heals 5% hp each turn in enemy territory, so the Catapult that attacked the Sitting Bull Scout gained +3 Great General Points and +1xp, each turn, forever.
Spoiler :
By T152, the Homies have drafted 11 Muskets and destroyed 2 Sitting Bull cities.
All the population and buildings vanished in a puff of smoke.
With the catapult going to 20xp purely by attacking the SB scout, the southern invasion turned into a bit of a side show.
The pillage and capture
are still appreciated.The 2 golden ages spread over 21 turns spawned 11 Great People.
It took perfect execution, birthed all the wanted Great Scientists, and over 1 week of planning.
Lots of interesting links this turnset from Home Slices.
Spoiler :
====================================
Link to Postgame Analysis Part 5
Last edited:
Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
Super Moderator
Hall of Fame Staff
GOTM Staff
Supporter
There's something not right somewhere, the odds for spreading that are listed in the two posts you linked seem far too low compared to my experience. Has something changed in a patch or BUFFY or is there something else going on??
Here's an example in a current game where Hatty shrined Judaism before I killed her and it's spreading like wildfire, I'll try and work out the odds of those spreads all happening based on those formulae but it's astronomical!
Last edited:
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,631
Aside from the AP gambit which enabled GLH, the key areas where PR did better seem to be:
- more population (stat: total citizen-turns), although Sushi’s primary benefit derives from increased population
- more AI tech trades (stat: total beakers traded for)
The AP gambit also significantly empowered the Ai tech trading by freeing PR to aggressively gift techs to AIs. (No fear of too powerful AIs)
