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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    IMHO moving S1 is an unnecessary gamble, We would lose 2 turns to be able to settle on its current position. I bet our rivals didn’t waste those turns. But I will go with the majority. Ok with S7 move.
     
  2. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Move settler 7.
     
  3. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    S7 moves south east.

    Screenshot attached. Save updated in maintenance thread.

    Its a 1 tile lake to the southeast with fur 2N of it and lots of tundra. It looks like more coast to the north east.

    S1 and S6 remain unmoved. .
     

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    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  4. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Likely room to expand to the East (and perhaps sooner better than later to prevent AI from getting the resources there). Looks like S6 will be our capital, so perhaps go ahead and move S1 (not a valuable city until expansion) and then settle S6 on T0, unless S1 reveals something dramatic.
     
  5. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    Agree with settling S6 as capital.
    Suspect the best available settling sites will be patches of plains in a "sea" of tundra tiles. S6 & S1 would fit this description.
    I would still settle S1 @t0. With a worker first it wouldn't need border pop to start contributing (camp furs/farm riverside plains & pasture when AH is in). Worst case work the ocean 2c tile.
     
  6. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I suspect that the best available settling sites are likely to be coastal, depending on the availability of food resources.
     
  7. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I propose we do testing with S1 SIP and S6 settle 1E or 1 SE vs S6 SIP and S1 SIP. Clearly, S6 SIP is worthless early on if no border pop. This game is going deep into the tech tree and S1 is much better that S6 for 80% of the time, esp with Bureaucracy. Let's get a sense of how good S6 SIP really is before we commit to it. Sorry, I can't do any testing until Monday...
     
  8. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Shulec, you have not convinced me that S1 is better for 80% of the game. How much upkeep will a S6 capital save us? Probably it will have a bigger impact that the cost of moving our capital. But I think we need test games before we make any more moves.
     
  9. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    RRR... Missing your input. You're a heavyweight! Please make a few minutes to weigh in. The start is so important!
     
  10. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Indeed, RRR, you are conspicuous in your absence.

    A possible compromise would be to keep S1 in place this turn and move the other NE settler onto the plain/fur/hill next turn before settling S1, in case there is a city site that could use the furs and allow us to to settle S1 a tile to the south.

     
  11. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I've been looking at settling S6 as capital and moving S1 iS which loses a turn but gets all three resources in first ring for a faster start. You lose a couple of fur tiles but gain more coast.

    I'm guessing RL is distracting RRRRRRRRRRas, hopefully he/she'll have time to post in the near future.
     
  12. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    "I've been looking at settling S6 as capital and moving S1 iS which loses a turn but gets all three resources in first ring for a faster start. You lose a couple of fur tiles but gain more coast." We would also lose two forest chops. I'm reluctant to give those up along with the furs (might also be useful before two expansions to trade for resources), unless there is a good city site that can capture the furs.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    Conquistador 63 likes this.
  13. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Updated test game
     

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    Conquistador 63 likes this.
  14. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Agreed. Both sites suck!!! I don't think maintenance will be very different. The sites are not far apart.

    S1 SIP - +5 food lighthouse seafood, +3 pastered cows, +3 camped deer
    S6 SIP - +4 food pastured sheep, +4 farmed rice

    S1 will grow faster. Secondarily, at higher populations, the seafood tiles are easily "improved" regrowth tiles. To farm the riverside plains is a lot of worker turns with a low return. The jungle gems are a long way off, but +1F+6C x2 is better than the fur - +4C, with one tile with 1F x 3.

    What is my conclusion? Blah blah blah. See the next post, isolated for emphasis.
     
  15. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Here is a new thought. Settle on T1, end T0 with S1 and S6 on their current location.

    We don't have enough information to choose on over the other. S1 moves 1NW and returns. S6 does nothing. The benefit is to see if there is another settling site in the coastal fog. If there is a site that can use the western gems tile, then consider settling S6 1E as City 2. If the west gems will never be worked if we don't settle S6 in place then I think that we should SIP S6 as the capitol. (On T1) We can also see if there is a strong tile 1E of the rice.
     
  16. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    There are too many unknowns. You could argue that the best option to settle the capitol in a few turns after our land is explored. Realistically, its not likely that there is a better capitol site then the S1 or S6. We could be on an astronomy bound island. Delaying settling our capitol with likely slow us down immeasurably. We also have to think about what wonders we want when picking the cities. I think we have to pass on Stonehenge to keep the AP victory as an option. This should be debated when choosing settling sites.
     
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    There are indeed a lot of unknowns.This is a doctored map rather than a standard map so SIP is not guaranteed optimal. Its a gamble exploring before settling, its also a gamble not exploring and settling on T0.

    The reason to think about monument (and Stonehenge in capital) is that we need to build something, its debatable how many units we need early on (given maintenance costs) and rax don't achieve much at the start. I wouldn't think about completing SH but accumulating failgold while waiting for something else to build could be useful
     
  18. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    In my test game I found it useful to build part of Stonehenge, but it is unclear to me whether (or how fast) those hammers will eventually decay over time if building is stopped.

    The compromise I suggested in Post#130 remains my default option -- that is, Settle S6, end turn, keep S1 in place and move onto the fur hill, settle S1 in place if no adjacent city site is revealed or move S1 1S if there is another good site, make additional settler exploration moves, revise the test map, and do extensive testing at that point.
     
  19. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Presumably move S4 to Fur Hill at the start of next turn then decide. If settling in place then S1 can found the city, if going 1S then S3 can move NW instead, leaving S1 to move NW towards new city site. Works for me.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  20. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Sorry for the prolonged absence. :sad: I will read the thread over the evening and comment. I am sure we are off to a good start anyway :thumbsup:

    I actually moved away from Paris last year, but lived there the 9 years before. Still travelling to it twice a month for work though.

    @pigswill: I am a "he" :mischief:
     

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