[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Good job with the early settler moves. (though I would have gone NE with S7 but that coast can be revealed later...) Anybody (I think I read it) thinking we have our tiny island for ourselves?
I have a hard time thinking those riverside plainhill where S1 and S6 are standing weren't made on purpose.
I will be testing SIP S6 then S1 and going AH > myst building two workers. My gut feeling says we should wait to have at least AH/TW to settle more cities anyway.
S1 in place is definatly better than one south (more food long term and faster start with 2h central tile and more chops available). S6 as the capital for border pop and central location (from the coastline shape)
@shulec: why do you want to move S6 E or SE? riverside plain tile are prolly the best no-bonus tile we are going to get, why waste one?
About S1, if there is seafood to the west, we can still settle W or NW of the western fur. I don't see any reason to wait.
That is before testing
Cheers,
Ras
I have a hard time thinking those riverside plainhill where S1 and S6 are standing weren't made on purpose.
I will be testing SIP S6 then S1 and going AH > myst building two workers. My gut feeling says we should wait to have at least AH/TW to settle more cities anyway.
S1 in place is definatly better than one south (more food long term and faster start with 2h central tile and more chops available). S6 as the capital for border pop and central location (from the coastline shape)
@shulec: why do you want to move S6 E or SE? riverside plain tile are prolly the best no-bonus tile we are going to get, why waste one?
About S1, if there is seafood to the west, we can still settle W or NW of the western fur. I don't see any reason to wait.
That is before testing
Cheers,
Ras
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
New test game with correct starting techs! 
edit: that's shulec's one without myst but agriculture.
edit: that's shulec's one without myst but agriculture.
Conquistador 63
Deity
Agreed 100%Good job with the early settler moves. (though I would have gone NE with S7 but that coast can be revealed later...) Anybody (I think I read it) thinking we have our tiny island for ourselves?
I have a hard time thinking those riverside plainhill where S1 and S6 are standing weren't made on purpose.
I will be testing SIP S6 then S1 and going AH > myst building two workers. My gut feeling says we should wait to have at least AH/TW to settle more cities anyway.
S1 in place is definatly better than one south (more food long term and faster start with 2h central tile and more chops available). S6 as the capital for border pop and central location (from the coastline shape)
@shulec: why do you want to move S6 E or SE? riverside plain tile are prolly the best no-bonus tile we are going to get, why waste one?
About S1, if there is seafood to the west, we can still settle W or NW of the western fur. I don't see any reason to wait.
That is before testing
Cheers,
Ras
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I just played 2 test games to t35. One with SIP S6 then S1 (AH > myst > TW > pottery), the other SIP S1 then S6 once myst is in (myst > AH > TW > pottery).
Maybe waiting for myst to settle is a mistake, need to test it.
I will replay both before posting more but at first glance we can have more workers with S6 as capital. More early beakers with the other one (pottery done t35 in that case while 2 turns away if settling S6 first).
I think more workers while having TW (trade network) /pottery (granaries/cottage) will allow us to settle all our cities faster.
----
re about settling S6 E or SE: I see your point shulec actually, but I am under the impression than the site will be inferior later on while we can't build settler (so the early gains don't snowball like in a normal game, we need to find a balance between quick start and decent longterm potential imo), it will be late to be connected to S1 (more roads needed and can't be connected via border pop)...
but we should test it anyway
Maybe waiting for myst to settle is a mistake, need to test it.
I will replay both before posting more but at first glance we can have more workers with S6 as capital. More early beakers with the other one (pottery done t35 in that case while 2 turns away if settling S6 first).
I think more workers while having TW (trade network) /pottery (granaries/cottage) will allow us to settle all our cities faster.
----
re about settling S6 E or SE: I see your point shulec actually, but I am under the impression than the site will be inferior later on while we can't build settler (so the early gains don't snowball like in a normal game, we need to find a balance between quick start and decent longterm potential imo), it will be late to be connected to S1 (more roads needed and can't be connected via border pop)...
but we should test it anyway
"Anybody (I think I read it) thinking we have our tiny island for ourselves?" Well, we have water on at least three sides, so that's a reasonable expectation. A more speculative thought: The mapmaker noted that some animals have gone extinct -- probably referring to the usual wild animals but perhaps he had horses in mind. Why would a mapmaker eliminate horses other than to increase the likelihood that an AI or two on the same continent would survive to compete for land and resources?
While waiting for folket and RRR to post their post-testing comments, I'm interested in discussing the optimal number of cities to settle early. It would seem prudent to hold at least one settler back for potential use in acquiring a critical resource. Holding two back would provide flexibility to eventually settle, say, a mineral rich island (which could be quite valuable) or perhaps a razed AI super capital site. I'm leaning toward settling at least 5 cities quickly (assuming five good sites are available), which will slow early research but greatly enhance growth and development.
While waiting for folket and RRR to post their post-testing comments, I'm interested in discussing the optimal number of cities to settle early. It would seem prudent to hold at least one settler back for potential use in acquiring a critical resource. Holding two back would provide flexibility to eventually settle, say, a mineral rich island (which could be quite valuable) or perhaps a razed AI super capital site. I'm leaning toward settling at least 5 cities quickly (assuming five good sites are available), which will slow early research but greatly enhance growth and development.
Looked at folket's save . . .
Initial research is good, but we're paying a price.
Sharing the capital's food resources will put limits on growth, so not optimal, unless we just can't find other decent city sites. So, advocate going to T1 and seeing what else we can learn about the map before more testing.
With the sharing and the settling of S1 south, we just don't have any powerful cities.
Other decent city sites will be easier to find if we research Myst and can expand them, which would be consistent with settling S1 in place (perhaps first moving settler onto the fur hill to make sure there's not a city site that can share the furs) and researching Myst first
Initial research is good, but we're paying a price.
Sharing the capital's food resources will put limits on growth, so not optimal, unless we just can't find other decent city sites. So, advocate going to T1 and seeing what else we can learn about the map before more testing.
With the sharing and the settling of S1 south, we just don't have any powerful cities.
Other decent city sites will be easier to find if we research Myst and can expand them, which would be consistent with settling S1 in place (perhaps first moving settler onto the fur hill to make sure there's not a city site that can share the furs) and researching Myst first
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Here is a screen of Folket's game:
I am feel the same than Cactus Pete, I am not keen on sharing food ressource till we haven't explore more. In a normal game I just want to share capital's food for fast growth but this game restrictions somewhat don't call for it.
I didn't find time for more testing this week end, I will get to it this evening.
Cheers
I am feel the same than Cactus Pete, I am not keen on sharing food ressource till we haven't explore more. In a normal game I just want to share capital's food for fast growth but this game restrictions somewhat don't call for it.
I didn't find time for more testing this week end, I will get to it this evening.
Cheers
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I am liking S1 south more and more too. In place may be stronger longterm but one south is powerfull right off the bat, and allows to tech worker techs before mysticism which is good.
Conquistador 63
Deity
If this was an ordinary game, e.g. fast conquest goal, I would agree.
But this is not.
We will only be able to settle 7 cities, and to me it is likely that each one of those will need its own full fat cross and maximum land coverage for resource grabbing, as the game objectives will require us go deep down in tech tree.
EDIT: giving up settling in a riverside PH which also is coastal doesn't appeal to me either.
For the record, this is a screenie of a test game I ran a few days ago.
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Conquistador 63
Deity
About the chances we would be isolated, that would be too evil from the mapmakers, given our designated leader/civ. I wouldn’t bet on it.
"EDIT: giving up settling in a riverside PH which also is coastal doesn't appeal to me either." Yes, and, if a good city site immediately to the NW is not available, it means delaying furs for a while too.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Having problems with settings , AlanH pmed me about it and despite following his instructions I'm still not able to get a legitimate game going so maybe someone can take over from me as I don't want us disqualified on the first turn.
Settling S1 1S is better short term and does give up some stuff longer term. I think it would be worthwhile exploring north west of the fur before coming to a final decision on S1 site.
I also think that S6 sip is fairly uncontroversial, my guess is that there could be more land to the north west and to the east so S6 is likely to be a more central location for capital in terms of distance maintenance.
Would be nice if we made some decisions and got the end of T1 by the end of the week. (
)
Settling S1 1S is better short term and does give up some stuff longer term. I think it would be worthwhile exploring north west of the fur before coming to a final decision on S1 site.
I also think that S6 sip is fairly uncontroversial, my guess is that there could be more land to the north west and to the east so S6 is likely to be a more central location for capital in terms of distance maintenance.
Would be nice if we made some decisions and got the end of T1 by the end of the week. (
)"Would be nice if we made some decisions and got the end of T1 by the end of the week." Indeed, it would. Who is up next?
pigswill
fly (one day)
Looks like Folket is next to pick up the baton (if available).
pigswill
fly (one day)
Is anybody out there?
Waiting on folket.
What "settings" are you referring to?
What "settings" are you referring to?
pigswill
fly (one day)
Keep getting Hof error warning .
