Conquistador 63
Deity
IMHO moving S1 is an unnecessary gamble, We would lose 2 turns to be able to settle on its current position. I bet our rivals didn’t waste those turns. But I will go with the majority. Ok with S7 move.
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
pigswill
fly (one day)
Likely room to expand to the East (and perhaps sooner better than later to prevent AI from getting the resources there). Looks like S6 will be our capital, so perhaps go ahead and move S1 (not a valuable city until expansion) and then settle S6 on T0, unless S1 reveals something dramatic.
Conquistador 63
Deity
Agree with settling S6 as capital.
Suspect the best available settling sites will be patches of plains in a "sea" of tundra tiles. S6 & S1 would fit this description.
I would still settle S1 @t0. With a worker first it wouldn't need border pop to start contributing (camp furs/farm riverside plains & pasture when AH is in). Worst case work the ocean 2c tile.
Suspect the best available settling sites will be patches of plains in a "sea" of tundra tiles. S6 & S1 would fit this description.
I would still settle S1 @t0. With a worker first it wouldn't need border pop to start contributing (camp furs/farm riverside plains & pasture when AH is in). Worst case work the ocean 2c tile.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I suspect that the best available settling sites are likely to be coastal, depending on the availability of food resources.
I propose we do testing with S1 SIP and S6 settle 1E or 1 SE vs S6 SIP and S1 SIP. Clearly, S6 SIP is worthless early on if no border pop. This game is going deep into the tech tree and S1 is much better that S6 for 80% of the time, esp with Bureaucracy. Let's get a sense of how good S6 SIP really is before we commit to it. Sorry, I can't do any testing until Monday...
Shulec, you have not convinced me that S1 is better for 80% of the game. How much upkeep will a S6 capital save us? Probably it will have a bigger impact that the cost of moving our capital. But I think we need test games before we make any more moves.
RRR... Missing your input. You're a heavyweight! Please make a few minutes to weigh in. The start is so important!
Indeed, RRR, you are conspicuous in your absence.
A possible compromise would be to keep S1 in place this turn and move the other NE settler onto the plain/fur/hill next turn before settling S1, in case there is a city site that could use the furs and allow us to to settle S1 a tile to the south.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I've been looking at settling S6 as capital and moving S1 iS which loses a turn but gets all three resources in first ring for a faster start. You lose a couple of fur tiles but gain more coast.
I'm guessing RL is distracting RRRRRRRRRRas, hopefully he/she'll have time to post in the near future.
I'm guessing RL is distracting RRRRRRRRRRas, hopefully he/she'll have time to post in the near future.
"I've been looking at settling S6 as capital and moving S1 iS which loses a turn but gets all three resources in first ring for a faster start. You lose a couple of fur tiles but gain more coast." We would also lose two forest chops. I'm reluctant to give those up along with the furs (might also be useful before two expansions to trade for resources), unless there is a good city site that can capture the furs.
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Updated test game
Agreed. Both sites suck!!! I don't think maintenance will be very different. The sites are not far apart.
S1 SIP - +5 food lighthouse seafood, +3 pastered cows, +3 camped deer
S6 SIP - +4 food pastured sheep, +4 farmed rice
S1 will grow faster. Secondarily, at higher populations, the seafood tiles are easily "improved" regrowth tiles. To farm the riverside plains is a lot of worker turns with a low return. The jungle gems are a long way off, but +1F+6C x2 is better than the fur - +4C, with one tile with 1F x 3.
What is my conclusion? Blah blah blah. See the next post, isolated for emphasis.
Here is a new thought. Settle on T1, end T0 with S1 and S6 on their current location.
We don't have enough information to choose on over the other. S1 moves 1NW and returns. S6 does nothing. The benefit is to see if there is another settling site in the coastal fog. If there is a site that can use the western gems tile, then consider settling S6 1E as City 2. If the west gems will never be worked if we don't settle S6 in place then I think that we should SIP S6 as the capitol. (On T1) We can also see if there is a strong tile 1E of the rice.
We don't have enough information to choose on over the other. S1 moves 1NW and returns. S6 does nothing. The benefit is to see if there is another settling site in the coastal fog. If there is a site that can use the western gems tile, then consider settling S6 1E as City 2. If the west gems will never be worked if we don't settle S6 in place then I think that we should SIP S6 as the capitol. (On T1) We can also see if there is a strong tile 1E of the rice.
There are too many unknowns. You could argue that the best option to settle the capitol in a few turns after our land is explored. Realistically, its not likely that there is a better capitol site then the S1 or S6. We could be on an astronomy bound island. Delaying settling our capitol with likely slow us down immeasurably. We also have to think about what wonders we want when picking the cities. I think we have to pass on Stonehenge to keep the AP victory as an option. This should be debated when choosing settling sites.
pigswill
fly (one day)
There are indeed a lot of unknowns.This is a doctored map rather than a standard map so SIP is not guaranteed optimal. Its a gamble exploring before settling, its also a gamble not exploring and settling on T0.
The reason to think about monument (and Stonehenge in capital) is that we need to build something, its debatable how many units we need early on (given maintenance costs) and rax don't achieve much at the start. I wouldn't think about completing SH but accumulating failgold while waiting for something else to build could be useful
The reason to think about monument (and Stonehenge in capital) is that we need to build something, its debatable how many units we need early on (given maintenance costs) and rax don't achieve much at the start. I wouldn't think about completing SH but accumulating failgold while waiting for something else to build could be useful
In my test game I found it useful to build part of Stonehenge, but it is unclear to me whether (or how fast) those hammers will eventually decay over time if building is stopped.
The compromise I suggested in Post#130 remains my default option -- that is, Settle S6, end turn, keep S1 in place and move onto the fur hill, settle S1 in place if no adjacent city site is revealed or move S1 1S if there is another good site, make additional settler exploration moves, revise the test map, and do extensive testing at that point.
The compromise I suggested in Post#130 remains my default option -- that is, Settle S6, end turn, keep S1 in place and move onto the fur hill, settle S1 in place if no adjacent city site is revealed or move S1 1S if there is another good site, make additional settler exploration moves, revise the test map, and do extensive testing at that point.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Presumably move S4 to Fur Hill at the start of next turn then decide. If settling in place then S1 can found the city, if going 1S then S3 can move NW instead, leaving S1 to move NW towards new city site. Works for me.
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RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Sorry for the prolonged absence. 
I will read the thread over the evening and comment. I am sure we are off to a good start anyway 
I actually moved away from Paris last year, but lived there the 9 years before. Still travelling to it twice a month for work though.
@pigswill: I am a "he"
I will read the thread over the evening and comment. I am sure we are off to a good start anyway I actually moved away from Paris last year, but lived there the 9 years before. Still travelling to it twice a month for work though.
@pigswill: I am a "he"
