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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Oh, I'm up next.

    I will make a plan tomorrow. I just need a way to remind me that I'm playing a SGOTM again. It is way harder then I expected to just check the forum regularly.
     
  2. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Prophet City - Moai Statues, (Stonehedge, Ankor Wat, Chichen Itza, Shwedagon Paya, Apostolic Palace, Any religious holy shrine, Oracle, Spiral Minaret)
    Merchant - Wall Street, (Colossus, Eiffel Tower, Great Lighthouse, Statue of Liberty, Temple of Artemis, United Nations, Versailles)
    Artist - Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, (Hollywood, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Notre Dam, Rock and Roll, Panthenon, Sistine Chapel, Statue of Zeus, Taj Mahal)
    Scientist - Lab, Oxford University, (Great Library, Space Elevator, Universtity of Sankore)
    General- Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ
    Engineer - Industrial Park, Ironworks, (Cristo Redentor, Hagia Sophia, Hanging Garden, Pyramids, Three Gorges Dam)
    Spy - Intelligence Agency, West Point, (Great Wall, Kremlin, Pentagon)

    Tried to get an overview of what we need.
    The prophet city has a lot of alternative wonders but has to be a coastal city as it need the Moai Statues. I doubt stonehedge is a wining strategy. With no barbs, extra settler and monarch difficulty we should get a good oracle slingshot instead.
    In the merchant city I think both Great Lighthouse and Colossus looks interesting. But we could also drop the united nations here later in the game instead. Aiming for the Eiffel tower Would allow us to ignore Mass Media and win with the apostolic palace. But then we will need to build the apostolic palace in our prophet city instead of oracle.
    In the Artist city I guess we will build the Taj Mahal if we find marble.
    In the scientist city we do not have that many options but I think we should aim for the great library.
    For the Corporation I do not think it matter much. Maybe avoid Sid Sushi as we do not need to research medicine and we will not be having that many resources.
    For engineer Cristor Redentor, pyramids and hanging garden could all work.
    For spy we should probably do Kremlin. We could possibly build great wall for fail gold and if the AI does not finish it we build it.

    We need around 100k research after the medieval era. Maybe we can get biology from liberalism to speed this up?

    I will need to continue thinking tomorrow but I do see a point with not trying to optimize our early game to much before we see how starved we are on resources.
     
  3. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Looks like a pretty reasonable analysis of the game strategy.

    I'm not sure I agree with not optimising early game because I think that we do need to think bout optimising early game. What's different about this game is we need to be optimising early commerce rather than early production, we've got settlers and don't need spawnbusters.
     
  4. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    So you are against aiming for 7 strong cities and do something more like what I did in my test game?
     
  5. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Actually I am very much in favour of seven strong cities as soon as possible. However to have seven strong cities we need seven strong sites for them and we need the population and techs to work strong tiles.For instance S6 site would be much stronger if we had IW to turn jungle gems into gem mines, many sites would be stronger if we had wheel and sailing for trade routes, pottery for granaries and cottages etc. When I talk about optimising the early game I'm talking about which techs we need in which order to be able to afford seven cities with enough commerce left over for the next tech in a reasonable time frame. I'm also talking about finding decent sites and growing them to work the stronger tiles (and tile strength depends on having the tech to improve it).

    I am not in favour of rushing to settle seven cities just because we have seven settlers and crashing the economy in the process.

    Tried test game settling S6 first, S1 in place, tech myst>AH>wheel>pots. Pottery T34 (S1 worker improved fur while waiting for AH, S6 worker farmed wine while waiting for AH) S1 has border pop and working clams.Someone with better micro could probably shave 1-2 turns off pottery date.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  6. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    "With no barbs, extra settler and monarch difficulty we should get a good oracle slingshot instead." Emperor level game (not Monarch)

    "tech myst>AH>wheel>pots." Concur, at least for now.

    Reiterating that it may be prudent to hold a settler or two in hand to gain critical resource(s) later, but certainly we should get at least 5 good cities up and growing ASAP, assuming there are good sites.

    Folket, appreciate your wonder analysis, but what is your tentative plan for completing T0 and proposed actions on T1?
     
  7. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I will post a plan for T0-1 tomorrow.
     
  8. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    PPP turn 0-1:

    Stop if:
    Meeting an AI

    Moves:
    move S1 1S
    Settle S6
    100% tax
    research AH

    Turn 1:
    move S7 NE, N
    move S2 SE
    move S5 NE, NE
    move S4 NW, SW
    move S3 ??
    save before settling S1
     
  9. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    To me settle S1 in place gives us a slower start. The tiles we loose are not better then riverside plains cottage.
     
  10. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    A good deal of difference of opinion on how to proceed between folket and myself. Team needs to voice their opinions. These decisions seem important.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  11. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    My preference:
    S6 sip, start worker.
    S1 skip a turn.

    T1:
    S4 NW>SW(to plain fur hill north of S1).
    If food to north west for a second fur city then S1 NW,NW and S3 NW (1S of current S1), otherwise S1 sip.

    I would also go fur mysticism before AH to avoid wasting hammers.
     
  12. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    My preference:
    S6 sip, start worker.
    S1 sip @t0, start worker.
    Myst>AH
     
  13. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    But are we ever going to work the fur in city 1? 1F 4C and 1H 4C are terrible tiles. A riverside cottage will give us 1F1H2C and improve.

    These are good suggestions.

    Can someone show me at what point S1 sip will be better? I will accept the majorities decision but I think we will have a stronger game if we play out the scenarios S1 sip and S1/S3 south of S1.
     
  14. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    PPP turn 0-1:

    Stop if:
    Meeting an AI

    Moves:
    move S1 skip turn
    Settle S6
    100% tax
    research myst

    Turn 1:
    move S7 NE, N
    move S2 SE
    move S5 NE, NE
    move S4 NW, SW
    save before committing S1 and S3
     
  15. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    That is certainly consistent with the present consensus. Shulec and RRR haven't weighed in.

    "But are we ever going to work the fur in city 1? 1F 4C and 1H 4C are terrible tiles. A riverside cottage will give us 1F1H2C and improve" Point taken: they will be better tiles eventually. There's a real need for commerce in the near term, though, and the furs may well prove useful in trade. Hopefully, there's a city site to the NW and we'll have the benefit of both.
     
  16. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    If it is for early commerce it feels like we should play out both alternative to turn 20 or 30 and see what gives us most early commerce.
     
  17. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Sorry, folket, I misunderstood your argument (and made a flawed counterargument). Of course you can't get Pottery researched, a cottage built, and 4C generated in 30 turns (much less in 20), so, you're arguing that the early fish net will make the difference and that we won't ever use the other two furs to generate commerce (which I question). Suspect that you are indeed correct that the fish net will be more powerful and, yes, generate more commerce early, but won't we end up with a weaker city in the long term if we settle 1S. (Regardless of where we settle, perhaps we will want to build that cottage before camping the other two furs.)

    What's your take on the importance of furs for trading and the two forest chops we'd lose?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  18. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Sorry for sucking.

    Plan looks good.
    T0 S1 Wait in place.
    100%, but unselect research. We don't have to commit until T5. If we meet another AI we'll get more beakers when we commit to a tech.

    T1 Move S3 1W
     
  19. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I had not considered fur trading. It will be a weaker city once we researched levee. If we decide to build the colossus it will be stronger most of the game. Let us play turn 1 and see.

    I take it that shulec has given me his blessing. One two more people give me a go I will play.
     
  20. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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