SGOTM1-Persia Team Shevek
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
- Status
pindicator
Emperor
It is me up next, right? Just making sure, so if it is consider this my got it. Won't be able to play until tomorrow night, though, so if I'm wrong on the order, you've got until then to correct me 
Also, will look for some more input on how best to milk our civilization while we wait for Monarchy and Map Making to come in.
Also, will look for some more input on how best to milk our civilization while we wait for Monarchy and Map Making to come in.
grs
nameless one
Roster:
pindicator - up next
Northern Pike
Tao
grs
smackster - just played
pindicator - up next
Northern Pike
Tao
grs
smackster - just played
pindicator
Emperor
Okay, here goes.
Goals for this round:
1. Capture all Zulu Cities. Should happen easily
2. Research Monarchy (in 4 turns), then Revolt.
3. Begin Research on Map Making (looks to be approx 8 or 9 turns after revolt is finished).
4. Begin Galley Pre-builds. (For 4spt towns this will take 8 turns, 3spt towns 10 turns, 2spt 15 turns. We should have Map Making in about 12 non-anarchy turns.)
5. Milk our territory for score (priority to settlers then temples -- i believe that is the correct order).
I am starting to question the productivity of switching to Monarchy, but it was what the group decided and I am not entirely convinced it is a bad thing to do (thinking entirely in terms of score), so i will revolt upon learning the tech.
750BC, Inherited Turn
MM Ulundi for growth.
Change Persepolis from Chariot to Immortal
Change Arbela from Settler to Temple
Change Susa from Chariot to Settler
Change Tenechtitlan from Barracks to Settler
Change Tlatelolco from Chariot to Temple
Babylon kept as Barracks for galley pre-build.
All the pre-builds I changed were because they could finish something else before buildling a galley. Hope I didn't over-step my bounds in changing builds.
IBT-
The people decide that we need stairs for our palace.
A barbarian galley appears outside of Antioch. Does this mean somebody else already has map making? Too bad we can't contact (and kill) them.
730BC, Turn 1
Northern Settler founds Gordium. Production set to warrior, though I was tempted to make a worker.
MM Pasagarde to work that additional grassland.
Southern Settler founds Bactra. Production set to Temple.
4/4 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. Flawless win.
4/5 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. -1HP and ANOTHER LEADER!!! With celebration we welcome Cyrius to our army.
:jump:
[dance] 
Okay, now what to do with this one? I have two ideas. The first is rushing the Great Lighthouse once we learn Map Making, the second is rushing Hanging Gardens (for milking score) once we finish Monarchy. Pasagarde has 100 shields built, currently, and will not be able to finish either wonder on its own. Now that we have a Leader, should we switch Pasagarde to something else and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse?
Zimbabwe set to Warrior. Two workers were captured.
Disperse barb camp for 25g. Immortal to 2/4.
I decide to change Pasagarde to a settler (town will grow next turn, anyway) and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse.
IBT-
Pasagarde: Settler -> Archer. Chose Archer because its a little too early to start a galley pre-build, and an archer can almost be considered a cheap immortal, as it takes an MP away. Plus the archer is probably a better choice than the spearman.
Zulu Warrior emerges from Hlobane.
710BC, Turn 2
Science to 80%, Monarchy still in 2 now running with 2gpt income.
Decide that despite the distance, more growth opportunities are to the south, so I move the settler south.
4/4 Immortal defeats Zulu Warrior. -1 HP
690BC, Turn 3
Science to 60%, 7gpt Income; Monarchy next turn.
Road to Zulu complete. Move some workers north, but will keep some to finish the road to Bapedi.
IBT-
Discover Monarchy. Set to Map Making, due in 7 at max research with -4gpt. Revolt immediately, wondering if the settler at Susa due this turn will be built. Oops, turns out I probably should have waited on that. And we drew a 6-turn anarchy, so that will be the remainder of my turns.
670BC, Turn 4
Not much of note here. Still waiting for Zulu towns to grow.
IBT-
Barb horseman appears beside Gordium.
Bapedi grows. The harbinger has been born.
650BC, Turn 5
Immortal from Gordium kills Barb, winning flawlessly.
First Immortal attacks Bapedi, and dies without inflicting damage.
Damn you RNG! The second Immortal meets the same fate, and the Impi can only smugly smile back at us.
The third Immortal redlines without a hit, and then wins four in a row to smite our enemy. Wheh, but now I will have to shuffle some Immortals around to continue the attack.
Change Arbela from Temple to Immortal to compensate for our later need of them.
Drat, my warrior builds in Ulundi and Zimbabwe were auto-changed to Immortals. Gordon hasn't been, though. Anyway, I change both towns to Archers.
IBT-
Zulu archer appears out of Bapedi.
630BC, Turn 6
Both Zimbabwe and Ulundi are undefended, but I lack the troops to take Bapedi as of now and keep a watch on Hlobane. I probably should shuffle troops down from Hlobane, but I am stubborn like that. Am moving troops south, as well. In the end, I decide I dont' want to risk a major setback and move the troops from Hlobane towards Bapedi.
Elite* Immortal kills archer, -2HP
IBT-
Wonderful! Bapedi shrinks back down to size 1.
610BC, Turn 7
Immortal in north kills barb camp.
590BC, Turn 8
Settler founds Sidon on east coast. Production set to Archer, but this should probably be changed.
570BC, Turn 9
...zzzz...
IBT-
We become a Monarchy!
550BC, Turn 10
Pasagarde changed from archer to Temple. This is a galley pre-build.
End of Round
Map Making is now due in 6 with a -4gpt deficit.
Antioch's Temple can be seen as a pre-build; there will only be 6 shields wasted after switching.
Tarsus's Barracks are a good pre-build.
So are Babylon's Barracks.
I missed my window at Bapedi; just got unlucky and I guess they rushed something. In frustration I wanted to just wipe it out, but realized that razing either of those towns helps us zero. Unless we have settlers without room, we just need to be patient.
The Great Leader is currently in Susa. I moved him all the way up there because I figured a northern town was the most secure location for a wonder.
Persepolis will build an Immortal next turn.
Susa builds a settler next turn.
Ulundi and Zimbabwe currently have NO MPs. They are both building archers; Ulundi's will finish in 2 turns with the forest chop.
Firaxis Score: 247
Get ready to sail the seven seas!
Goals for this round:
1. Capture all Zulu Cities. Should happen easily
2. Research Monarchy (in 4 turns), then Revolt.
3. Begin Research on Map Making (looks to be approx 8 or 9 turns after revolt is finished).
4. Begin Galley Pre-builds. (For 4spt towns this will take 8 turns, 3spt towns 10 turns, 2spt 15 turns. We should have Map Making in about 12 non-anarchy turns.)
5. Milk our territory for score (priority to settlers then temples -- i believe that is the correct order).
I am starting to question the productivity of switching to Monarchy, but it was what the group decided and I am not entirely convinced it is a bad thing to do (thinking entirely in terms of score), so i will revolt upon learning the tech.
750BC, Inherited Turn
MM Ulundi for growth.
Change Persepolis from Chariot to Immortal
Change Arbela from Settler to Temple
Change Susa from Chariot to Settler
Change Tenechtitlan from Barracks to Settler
Change Tlatelolco from Chariot to Temple
Babylon kept as Barracks for galley pre-build.
All the pre-builds I changed were because they could finish something else before buildling a galley. Hope I didn't over-step my bounds in changing builds.
IBT-
The people decide that we need stairs for our palace.
A barbarian galley appears outside of Antioch. Does this mean somebody else already has map making? Too bad we can't contact (and kill) them.
730BC, Turn 1
Northern Settler founds Gordium. Production set to warrior, though I was tempted to make a worker.
MM Pasagarde to work that additional grassland.
Southern Settler founds Bactra. Production set to Temple.
4/4 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. Flawless win.
4/5 Immortal attacks fortified archer in Zimbabwe. -1HP and ANOTHER LEADER!!! With celebration we welcome Cyrius to our army.
:jump:
[dance] Okay, now what to do with this one? I have two ideas. The first is rushing the Great Lighthouse once we learn Map Making, the second is rushing Hanging Gardens (for milking score) once we finish Monarchy. Pasagarde has 100 shields built, currently, and will not be able to finish either wonder on its own. Now that we have a Leader, should we switch Pasagarde to something else and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse?
Zimbabwe set to Warrior. Two workers were captured.
Disperse barb camp for 25g. Immortal to 2/4.
I decide to change Pasagarde to a settler (town will grow next turn, anyway) and use the Leader to build the Lighthouse.
IBT-
Pasagarde: Settler -> Archer. Chose Archer because its a little too early to start a galley pre-build, and an archer can almost be considered a cheap immortal, as it takes an MP away. Plus the archer is probably a better choice than the spearman.
Zulu Warrior emerges from Hlobane.
710BC, Turn 2
Science to 80%, Monarchy still in 2 now running with 2gpt income.
Decide that despite the distance, more growth opportunities are to the south, so I move the settler south.
4/4 Immortal defeats Zulu Warrior. -1 HP
690BC, Turn 3
Science to 60%, 7gpt Income; Monarchy next turn.
Road to Zulu complete. Move some workers north, but will keep some to finish the road to Bapedi.
IBT-
Discover Monarchy. Set to Map Making, due in 7 at max research with -4gpt. Revolt immediately, wondering if the settler at Susa due this turn will be built. Oops, turns out I probably should have waited on that. And we drew a 6-turn anarchy, so that will be the remainder of my turns.
670BC, Turn 4
Not much of note here. Still waiting for Zulu towns to grow.
IBT-
Barb horseman appears beside Gordium.
Bapedi grows. The harbinger has been born.
650BC, Turn 5
Immortal from Gordium kills Barb, winning flawlessly.
First Immortal attacks Bapedi, and dies without inflicting damage.
Damn you RNG! The second Immortal meets the same fate, and the Impi can only smugly smile back at us.
The third Immortal redlines without a hit, and then wins four in a row to smite our enemy. Wheh, but now I will have to shuffle some Immortals around to continue the attack.
Change Arbela from Temple to Immortal to compensate for our later need of them.
Drat, my warrior builds in Ulundi and Zimbabwe were auto-changed to Immortals. Gordon hasn't been, though. Anyway, I change both towns to Archers.
IBT-
Zulu archer appears out of Bapedi.
630BC, Turn 6
Both Zimbabwe and Ulundi are undefended, but I lack the troops to take Bapedi as of now and keep a watch on Hlobane. I probably should shuffle troops down from Hlobane, but I am stubborn like that. Am moving troops south, as well. In the end, I decide I dont' want to risk a major setback and move the troops from Hlobane towards Bapedi.
Elite* Immortal kills archer, -2HP
IBT-
Wonderful! Bapedi shrinks back down to size 1.
610BC, Turn 7
Immortal in north kills barb camp.
590BC, Turn 8
Settler founds Sidon on east coast. Production set to Archer, but this should probably be changed.
570BC, Turn 9
...zzzz...
IBT-
We become a Monarchy!
550BC, Turn 10
Pasagarde changed from archer to Temple. This is a galley pre-build.
End of Round
Map Making is now due in 6 with a -4gpt deficit.
Antioch's Temple can be seen as a pre-build; there will only be 6 shields wasted after switching.
Tarsus's Barracks are a good pre-build.
So are Babylon's Barracks.
I missed my window at Bapedi; just got unlucky and I guess they rushed something. In frustration I wanted to just wipe it out, but realized that razing either of those towns helps us zero. Unless we have settlers without room, we just need to be patient.
The Great Leader is currently in Susa. I moved him all the way up there because I figured a northern town was the most secure location for a wonder.
Persepolis will build an Immortal next turn.
Susa builds a settler next turn.
Ulundi and Zimbabwe currently have NO MPs. They are both building archers; Ulundi's will finish in 2 turns with the forest chop.
Firaxis Score: 247
Get ready to sail the seven seas!
Whow. Another Great Leader. Amazing and terrific.
And you wait for Bapedi and Hlobane to grow in order/culture expand in order to capture them.
What I don agree at all(!) are some of your other choices. I would stopp immediately the chopping at Pasargadae, Tarsus, and Antioch. The forest gives us much need shields. IMHO we will not research up to construction and build aqueducts. Thus we must get as much as possible out of pop 6.
In Ulundi, it might be good to build a temple to get access to all these nice wheats. Building it supported by wood cutting.
And IMHO we could use another worker. From Bactra?
I would NOT build a settler in Susa. It is one of our productive cities and will take too long to grow again. Also: mm it to use the furs.
MM teochtitlan to build settler in 2 turns.
Northern Pike: The decisions are yours, but please stop cutting these forests. Cut forest at Persepolis; it has enough of it.
And you wait for Bapedi and Hlobane to grow in order/culture expand in order to capture them.
What I don agree at all(!) are some of your other choices. I would stopp immediately the chopping at Pasargadae, Tarsus, and Antioch. The forest gives us much need shields. IMHO we will not research up to construction and build aqueducts. Thus we must get as much as possible out of pop 6.
In Ulundi, it might be good to build a temple to get access to all these nice wheats. Building it supported by wood cutting.
And IMHO we could use another worker. From Bactra?
I would NOT build a settler in Susa. It is one of our productive cities and will take too long to grow again. Also: mm it to use the furs.
MM teochtitlan to build settler in 2 turns.
Northern Pike: The decisions are yours, but please stop cutting these forests. Cut forest at Persepolis; it has enough of it.
pindicator
Emperor
I guess I took the idea of increasing our pop and milking our territories to levels of zealotry. The settler at Susa I was uncertain of, also, only that I wanted one from somewhere (which ended up being Pasagarde). If you think the forest chops are more harmful than helpful, dont let me ruin a city's production -- please cancel them in that case.
I was only thinking of cutting cities that couldn't grow any more without the grassland, and probably got greedy at the thought of a +5 food tile with the game, but that probably was a
move.
I was only thinking of cutting cities that couldn't grow any more without the grassland, and probably got greedy at the thought of a +5 food tile with the game, but that probably was a
move.
grs
nameless one
Seems we are on a great leader spree!?
Just some ideas:
1. If we plan to settle all land for score, we should concentrate settler building to 1 or 2 cities with granaries. I think of switching Tenochtitlan and maybe Teotihuacan to granary and then start pumping some settlers out. Otherwise we waste too much food and pop. I agree to "no settler from Susa".
2. We should bring irrigation to Tlatelolco immediately (after 1 round in which chopping has finished), because it is not growing atm.
3. Why are archers better than spearmen? We won't use them to attack anyone anyways. Archer are in danger of losing to barbs if we move most of our immortals away from our island.
edit:
4. Regarding the Great Leader: Susa could (and should?) be mm so that it builds a temple in 5 or 7 turns (depending on choice). After that we have Map Making and could rush the Great Lighthouse there.
--
grs
Just some ideas:
1. If we plan to settle all land for score, we should concentrate settler building to 1 or 2 cities with granaries. I think of switching Tenochtitlan and maybe Teotihuacan to granary and then start pumping some settlers out. Otherwise we waste too much food and pop. I agree to "no settler from Susa".
2. We should bring irrigation to Tlatelolco immediately (after 1 round in which chopping has finished), because it is not growing atm.
3. Why are archers better than spearmen? We won't use them to attack anyone anyways. Archer are in danger of losing to barbs if we move most of our immortals away from our island.
edit:
4. Regarding the Great Leader: Susa could (and should?) be mm so that it builds a temple in 5 or 7 turns (depending on choice). After that we have Map Making and could rush the Great Lighthouse there.
--
grs
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Got it. Thanks for all the input, gentlemen--it's good to see this level of enthusiasm. 
IIRC final scoring will be done according to the GOTM rules. Thus Firaxis score is nearly meaningless. Much much more important is to finish fast. Thus having the ability to prebuild for galleys NOW is much much better than building another settler/town. We probably should stop research after map making and use all the money for hurrying galleys first (4-6), then units.
IMHO it would also be important that the Tenochtitlam settler builds a town which allows access to the southern iron. Then we can disconnect the northern one, build 10 shield warriors, connect the iron, and upgrade warriors to immortals.
IMHO it would also be important that the Tenochtitlam settler builds a town which allows access to the southern iron. Then we can disconnect the northern one, build 10 shield warriors, connect the iron, and upgrade warriors to immortals.
grs
nameless one
Why can`t we just disconnect the northern iron and reconnect it afterwards?
grs
nameless one
Umpf, next time I won't post without looking at the game again - it's really been some time since I had it in hands.
--
grs
--
grs
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
550 (0): I implement most of the above suggestions.
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
Hlobane gets a cultural expansion, so we can attack it next turn.
530 (1): We take Hlobane without loss, two Immortals defeating two Impis.
I move our Immortal garrisoning Babylon around so that we can dispel the darkness from as much as possible of the surrounding sea--a minor point, but it should have been done earlier.
Tenochtitlan settler --> settler. This town gets such good population growth that I don't think working in a granary here would pay off before the (probably imminent) end of the game.
510 (2): Ulundi spearman (assisted by forest chop) --> spearman. Now that we hold Hlobane Ulundi has access to the wheat without a cultural expansion, and our Immortals-as-garrisons problem is worse than ever.
Arbela Immortal --> Immortal (as galley prebuild).
Bactra worker --> spearman.
490 (3): Irrigation, etc.
470 (4): Our Immortal on the peninsula north of Teotihuacan defeats a barbarian warrior and discovers another barb camp.
Science rate down to 50%, 11 gpt, MM still due in two turns.
Teotihuacan settler (rushed) -->Immortal (galley prebuild).
Susa temple --> Immortal (galley prebuild).
450 (5): We disperse the barbarian camp for 25 gold. This brings our victorious Immortal to the tip of the peninsula north of Teotihuacan, and he spots coastal squares to the northwest.
We found Tyre next to the southern iron.
We discover Map Making. I choose Mathematics as our next objective, but set the sliders to 10-0-0, 43 gpt.
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
430 (6): I switch eight towns to galley builds, with minor loss of shields (13 in total) and one cash-rush (Zimbabwe, 88 gold).
Our first four galleys appear.
Tenochtitlan settler --> settler.
Ulundi spearman (with forest chop and cash-rush) --> spearman.
410 (7): Preliminary galley moves--nothing exciting yet.
Babylon galley --> galley.
Cyrus rushes the Great Lighthouse in Antioch (I choose this town because it could use a cultural expansion), so:
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
Hlobane gets a cultural expansion, so we can attack it next turn.
530 (1): We take Hlobane without loss, two Immortals defeating two Impis.
I move our Immortal garrisoning Babylon around so that we can dispel the darkness from as much as possible of the surrounding sea--a minor point, but it should have been done earlier.
Tenochtitlan settler --> settler. This town gets such good population growth that I don't think working in a granary here would pay off before the (probably imminent) end of the game.
510 (2): Ulundi spearman (assisted by forest chop) --> spearman. Now that we hold Hlobane Ulundi has access to the wheat without a cultural expansion, and our Immortals-as-garrisons problem is worse than ever.
Arbela Immortal --> Immortal (as galley prebuild).
Bactra worker --> spearman.
490 (3): Irrigation, etc.
470 (4): Our Immortal on the peninsula north of Teotihuacan defeats a barbarian warrior and discovers another barb camp.
Science rate down to 50%, 11 gpt, MM still due in two turns.
Teotihuacan settler (rushed) -->Immortal (galley prebuild).
Susa temple --> Immortal (galley prebuild).
450 (5): We disperse the barbarian camp for 25 gold. This brings our victorious Immortal to the tip of the peninsula north of Teotihuacan, and he spots coastal squares to the northwest.
We found Tyre next to the southern iron.
We discover Map Making. I choose Mathematics as our next objective, but set the sliders to 10-0-0, 43 gpt.
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
430 (6): I switch eight towns to galley builds, with minor loss of shields (13 in total) and one cash-rush (Zimbabwe, 88 gold).
Our first four galleys appear.
Tenochtitlan settler --> settler.
Ulundi spearman (with forest chop and cash-rush) --> spearman.
410 (7): Preliminary galley moves--nothing exciting yet.
Babylon galley --> galley.
Cyrus rushes the Great Lighthouse in Antioch (I choose this town because it could use a cultural expansion), so:
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
390 (8): We discover a purple cultural boundary--the Iroquois, of course--in the sea off Sidon.
Sidon galley (rushed) --> spearman.
370 (9): We found Sardis on the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.
One of our galleys easily defeats the attack of a barbarian ship.
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
Susa galley --> Immortal.
350 (10): We discover a blue border--America's--in the sea east of Zimbabwe.
We pick off a Zulu archer outside Bapedi, without loss.
Persians 3, Zulus 0 this round.
One elite victory didn't produce a Great Leader.
Sidon galley (rushed) --> spearman.
370 (9): We found Sardis on the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.
One of our galleys easily defeats the attack of a barbarian ship.
Persepolis Immortal --> Immortal.
Susa galley --> Immortal.
350 (10): We discover a blue border--America's--in the sea east of Zimbabwe.
We pick off a Zulu archer outside Bapedi, without loss.
Persians 3, Zulus 0 this round.
One elite victory didn't produce a Great Leader.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
We haven't contacted the Iroquois or the Americans yet. Our two galleys off Sidon, containing four Immortals, STILL HAVE THEIR MOVEMENT, so you can time our move against the Iroquois as you see fit.
Once we discovered the Americans, I switched some of our galley builds to ground units, but you might want to go further in this direction.
The only direction in which we aren't exploring is to the east of Persepolis--but now that we've located all our enemies, this may not matter much.
We have a settler in position to found a city at the tip of the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.
There's no reason why we couldn't found an overseas city or two before the end, on the uninhabited islands now appearing to east and west.
Ulundi has just received the benefit of another forest chop, so I'd cash-rush another spearman there immediately.
Bapedi should get its cultural expansion, and become attackable, this interturn.
Once we discovered the Americans, I switched some of our galley builds to ground units, but you might want to go further in this direction.
The only direction in which we aren't exploring is to the east of Persepolis--but now that we've located all our enemies, this may not matter much.
We have a settler in position to found a city at the tip of the peninsula north of Tlatelolco.
There's no reason why we couldn't found an overseas city or two before the end, on the uninhabited islands now appearing to east and west.
Ulundi has just received the benefit of another forest chop, so I'd cash-rush another spearman there immediately.
Bapedi should get its cultural expansion, and become attackable, this interturn.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
New cities, new borders:
grs
nameless one
Great news! Let's just hope none of them has already built galleys and settled on more than one island.
May I add that we can now make great use of our charriot?!
I guess we are going for fastest conquest - or do we want to get a better score by settling most of the left space and milk out some score?
--
grs
I think 7 galleys + 2 more in two turn are more than enough if we can get a map from at least one of them soon to get proof they haven't settled too many isles.
May I add that we can now make great use of our charriot?!
I guess we are going for fastest conquest - or do we want to get a better score by settling most of the left space and milk out some score?
--
grs
pindicator
Emperor
Nice turns, Northern. A lot better than mine.
With the GOTM using Jason score calculator, I'm not an expert on it but what I understand is that milking is next to impossible. The way to get a high Jason score is to win as quickly as possible, so the only reason I see to milking our score (by creating settlers, etc) is if that city cannot in any way help contribute to our quick annhiliation of the last two civs.
Tao probably knows more of the specifics about the Jason score, though.
With the GOTM using Jason score calculator, I'm not an expert on it but what I understand is that milking is next to impossible. The way to get a high Jason score is to win as quickly as possible, so the only reason I see to milking our score (by creating settlers, etc) is if that city cannot in any way help contribute to our quick annhiliation of the last two civs.
Tao probably knows more of the specifics about the Jason score, though.
- Status
Similar threads
