Sgotm18

[Sun Tzu Wu]

About advanced starts, any non modern or future start penalises the human, IMO. And they are not fun unless the mapmaker does think to some variant.

All non-ancient era starts with an era appropriate accessible strategic resource are almost as unbalanced in favor of the human player(s) as ancient era Inca starts. Instead of spamming Quechuas, one spams the unit enabled by the strategic resource. The AI is not programmed to take advantage of this and thus it is very vulnerable to such a very early rush. For industrial era starts, cannons would be the key military unit and iron would be the essential strategic resource for an early rush; rushing with just riflemen/grenadiers and trechubets wouldn't be quite as effective; alternatively cuirassers and horse would be fun too. For renaissance era, the key rushing unit would be the knight and key strategic resources would be horse and iron (except for camel archers). For mediaeval era, horse archers would be the key offensive military unit and horse the strategic resource.

On the other hand, if there is no accessible strategic resource to enable the current era's primary offensive military unit, I agree that the game wouldn't be much fun. A SGOTM scenario designer wouldn't give all the AIs strategic resources and the human none, or would he?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

If you're going to bring back a cultural element to the victory conditions. I think we have to ban the culture mission exploited by the Ducks in SG-16 and now shown in the latest gauntlet to be way too over-powered as well as sucking all the culture elements and flavor out of the game.

 

[Folket]

I would like some completely out of the box victory conditions in a relatively normal map.

Perhaps victory goes to the team with most peace vassals at the end of the game.
Make one AI very strong and give victory to however manages to defeat him fastest while being locked at peace with him.
Domination or conquest victory conditions while not being allowed the declare any wars.
A team game where your ally is not reachable before flight.
Ban an improvement.
Have most gold by 1500 AD.
Convert all AIs to US without UN.

 

[Gumbolt]

Always war with culture could be interesting. Nice Pangea map to spice things up. 6 Shaka's to make things more fun.

What about a space game but start all AI and players with 2 settlers and a worker. Use immortal settings. Downside here is avoiding one team getting lucky with exploration. Of course this could be avoided by revealing certain tiles at start. Oh course space games in past have been about using oracle and Lib to get late game techs. Also at spamming cities with GLH and then spamming execs.

You could mix certain tasks like previous games.

3-4 city only rule?

A peace only game would certainly limit team options.

Of course we could start game with all Ai/players having certain executive techs. I assume you could add certain exec bases to certain AI cities. Giving player war options. Such as you must control 3 corp HQ.

It would certainly spice up the start and get teams thinking.

 

[UnforcedError]

I liked SGOTM 16 for its variety of achievements. Coordinating tons of tasks is something that keeps teams interested. I'd definitely be against an AW or raging barb setting because of their randomness at the start and the monotony of game play later. If you want to spice up IMM maybe install a powerful arch-enemy who is not immediately reachable... maybe on the other side of the map or on another continent. Still an added challenge but does not hamper empire buildup much. Reading this thread I think many players expressed interest in something that's more of a 'builder' game.

 

[Manco Capac]

Always war with culture could be interesting. Nice Pangea map to spice things up. 6 Shaka's to make things more fun.

What about a space game but start all AI and players with 2 settlers and a worker. Use immortal settings. Downside here is avoiding one team getting lucky with exploration. Of course this could be avoided by revealing certain tiles at start. Oh course space games in past have been about using oracle and Lib to get late game techs. Also at spamming cities with GLH and then spamming execs.

Even if on IMM, giving more settlers to the AI will certainly push earlier the barbs invasion we know all this is one of the most random stuff that can screw a game. Especially when it approaches T40.

 

[Gumbolt]

Even if on IMM, giving more settlers to the AI will certainly push earlier the barbs invasion we know all this is one of the most random stuff that can screw a game. Especially when it approaches T40.

It also reduces the land available enabling more fog busting. Like most team games it creates more challenges for the player. The only issue for me would be if the AI got over run by barbs. Again this can be resolved by giving teams access to archers from T1 or a stronger production tile.

 

[BLubmuz]

Again this can be resolved by giving teams access to archers from T1 or a stronger production tile.

From Monarch up the AI already start with Archery. Then they have 1 more tech each level up. The problem it's only for poor humans.

 

[bestsss]

Gumbolt: The only issue for me would be if the AI got over run by barbs
Gotta check the bonuses high-level AIs get vs barbs, practically they can't lose vs archers.

 

[pigswill]

Immortal. Space. No tech trading. Pre-built Oracle. No huts.

 

[Gumbolt]

From Monarch up the AI already start with Archery. Then they have 1 more tech each level up. The problem it's only for poor humans.

When I said teams I mean't giving the player archers. How many teams really tech archery first. Of course the map maker could insist the first tech each player must go for is archery with a need to build x archers?

An early peace rule could also be put in place.

I think setting many objectives is probably the way to go. I stil like my previous idea that you have to kill at least 1 of each AI UU unit. 1 Panzer, 1 skirmisher etc. Would involve some planning. Plus a rule if a distant Ai was wiped out by an unknown AI.

Is it possible to set up barb cities that build privateers?? Might spice up the game a bit.

 

[Sleepless]

Immortal. Space. No tech trading. Pre-built Oracle. No huts.

Above seems reasonable to me. The Oracle loses some of its appeal with no tech trading so would keep it in.

Makes use espionage more appealing as well. Guess you can steal techs even though you can't trade for them.

 

[Gumbolt]

Above seems reasonable to me. The Oracle loses some of its appeal with no tech trading so would keep it in.

Makes use espionage more appealing as well. Guess you can steal techs even though you can't trade for them.

Is it possible to do a space game where you have to steal most of the techs?? Say any tech from a certain era onwards? Or you have to steal 4-5 key space techs. Meaning some fun results.

Is there a way to tell when a player has stopped an AI spaceship by capturing their capital? Maybe a requirement for an Ai to build apollo program before the player.

Perhaps a twist requiring you to have one of each exec in your capital as an offering to the gods before any space victory? Or to have all corp HQs under your control. So this opens up a military mix to the game.

Lots of options really.

 

[bestsss]

Relying on mass stealing is no option for competitive play as then it purely depends on luck when the AI (and which) is to research. W/o tech lead is truly hard to manipulated diplo/wars either.

Imo, space is a rather weak condition victory (w/o always war), it requires a lot of land and sushi/cereal + mining inc to make a good finishing date. Usual start is the big lighthouse + perhaps pyramids if stone and forest are available (+happy resources), then expand, beeline and spread the corp, win... Dunno if anyone has found anything better

Virtually any "building" game (on ancient start) is bound to lose to acquired land via war or mass expansion. Anything the requires late tech would benefit from 1turn/tech, which means land.

 

[Gumbolt]

Relying on mass stealing is no option for competitive play as then it purely depends on luck when the AI (and which) is to research. W/o tech lead is truly hard to manipulated diplo/wars either.

Imo, space is a rather weak condition victory (w/o always war), it requires a lot of land and sushi/cereal + mining inc to make a good finishing date. Usual start is the big lighthouse + perhaps pyramids if stone and forest are available (+happy resources), then expand, beeline and spread the corp, win... Dunno if anyone has found anything better

Virtually any "building" game (on ancient start) is bound to lose to acquired land via war or mass expansion. Anything the requires late tech would benefit from 1turn/tech, which means land.

Well we have proven that model before on SGOTM 16. No point repeating that game in the same way. Always war could also be unpredictable if some Ai take out neighbours. Also who the neighbours decide to attack. Could one game end up with one large AI with 1-2 vassels?

 

[Folket]

If we have contact with all AIs they will not unsurp eachother and the game will progress about the same for everyone.

I would still prefer a out of the box VC.

 

[bestsss]

Vassals are an issue only prior to optics and only w/ continents. If they meet you early on, they will be forever war locked in, unless you can pull some stunt via the AP resolution (likely have to capture it to have the religion properly spread).
Continents map type also makes "always war" easier as it's not difficult to predict where the AIs unload (it's not totally deterministic but it's exploitable), put troops over the plots you wish not to unload and when they get off the flat land, maul 'em. It can be made love feast by having only a single religion on "the other continent", e.g. a religion already founded and some of the religions given to the barbs.

Unless it's very unforgiving map (or very aggressive AIs) all late games are decided when one tech/turn is achievable.

 

[Doshin]

AW would make the game a huge grind from the get-go, and a bad RNG roll can totally derail a team's game. It would also overlap considerably with the SGOTM17 spirit. The byline would only change to "Kill 'em all! Except for one or two crushed AIs, to keep as company while you tech to space..."

Another suggestion: perhaps a Terra type map could create an interesting challenge? There is a lot of room for creativity, but the VC could involve (e.g.) settling the New World completely and then burning down the Old (your old cities as well, if that can be arranged ), or creating the maximum number of colonies possible (is this number capped?), or having your colony be the quickest Civ to win the Space Race... lots of other possibilities too.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Theme: Xenophobia. We're given a reasonable-size but oddly shaped starting island and told we can't settle or keep any cities off that island for fear of proximity-based cultural contamination, thus forcing us to optimally settle our island, whatever that means. Several small closely spaced cities to whip out a rush army? Less BFC overlap to allow ultimately bigger cities? Share a concentration of food resources among multiple cities or give it all to one?

Variations: We're allowed one trading outpost city per landmass. We only open borders (or trade techs or resources) with civs that share our state religion. If any civ settles or captures a city on our home island we are forever at war with that civ. If any civ DoWs us we are forever at war. We can't trade for any tech that unlocks a cultural building (wonders excepted?). Once we've discovered Masonry, every city must have walls as its first build. Ditto for Drama/theatres. We must build the Great Wall and/or Chichen Itza to defend our True Way of Life. One AI is given a starting city of Rival Magnificence that must be destroyed.

 

[bestsss]

AWs partly remove the ability to deeply run test games which is kinda removing a grind point as well.