EL_OSO said:
Rome is building a settler every 5 turns without micromanagement. I double checked the city screen every turn and it wasn't needed here (yet). That doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention to it. I would also like to note that the iron wasn't visibile until the to the end of my turn sequences. Also is there a way to get a settler in 4 turns through micromanagement? If that is the case, then we definitely need to pay attention to the city screen.
Rome has growth every 3 turns, a settler takes 2 citizens. Yes we might occasionally be able to produce a settler in 5, but on the long term it will take 6 turns per settler since it is needed for growth. If you just keep building settlers, the city will get smaller until the size needed to produce settlers in 6 turns. The other option would be to let the city grow large enough to produce a settler in 4 and have the other 2 turns between city growth to produce a warrior.
EL_OSO said:
I would agree with you on lower difficulty levels. On Chieftan, I would always ensure that I had 21 workable squares. We'll be building a lot of temples or libraries to get more than 9 in the beginning. Most of the articles I've read in the War Academy indicate to space the cities with 2 open spaces between them and there are some that use the ICS strategy and have only 1 space. If we all want 3 spaces between cities, everyone should speak up and say so now. Either way, it doesn't make a difference to me. Eventually Greece will have to be eliminated and more cities in despotism means a bigger army. Just a note: On monarch level I would have moved the settlers that one additional square.
No problems here, i know oppinions differ a lot on this, also on higher levels. Personally i like 12 tiles per city, but other oppinions might be as good or better.
EL_OSO said:
According to my screen they do grow as fast. It takes ten turns for Antium to produce a worker. Incidentally, that's the same amount of time it takes to grow to size 2. To further justify this decision, we will soon have 4 cities and only 1 worker. We're not industrious and should have at least 1 worker per city. If I'm not mistaken, I also recall you stating earlier that your first build in new cities was almost always a worker (with no barbs). Currently, both towns are defended but if the next guy feels we need a spear, then by all means make one.
You see the numbers below the city names? they give a greater number for city growth than for production turns remaining. That means the worker would be ready before the city gets to size 2.
EL_OSO said:
I disagree. Every time I think like that, the AI takes it. If not the next city, it should be with in the next 3 built IMO. Horses and Iron are the two most important resources until the late industrial age.
I still stand by my oppinion, the AI is far away from those horses and we can take them any moment, i suggest stopping the AI's expansion in our direction as described, and the city i talk about with the game resource is close enough to the horses to have some control by providing early vision if the AI would move a settler close and by obstructing such settlers.
EL_OSO said:
All of those squares are excellent choices. Would you guys like me to prepare a screenshot for us to peruse and discuss future city placement? It's not a problem on my end. Everyone from here on out will have at least one settler to move and I think it might be a good idea to have a game plan.
Yes i would like that.
EL_OSO said:
I'm not an emperor level player yet. I just assumed that the possibility of building the GL would be a good option which is why I set it to research Literature. A library will also expand the borders of newly founded towns. We can't trade Code of Laws in PTW? Its been a while since I've played it and don't remember.
We can trade it, but if the AI beats us to it, the trade options will be less. I think it is too early to think about libraries, if we need not to build militairy, i prefer building granaries first. I am still not sure about the GL, my personal feeling tells me we wont need it but i am not sure.
EL_OSO said:
Your advise is appreciated. I welcome this discussion and hope others have things to say as well. The only reason (besides entertainment) for me playing a SGOTM is to learn strategy from other players to improve my game. The only part of your advise that I found confusing is the priorty of building a town defender over a worker since it contradicts an earlier post.
I want to build the defender first because growth is not fast enough, this is usually the case in the first cities since they have little or no corruption and therefore 2 or more production. with 2 production the worker would be ready in 5 while growth will take 7 or 10 turns depending on river or not. Veii even has 3 production and thus will make the worker so fast that 1 warrior is not enough.
EL_OSO said:
Also we need to discuss the course of action when the AI demands tribute. On regent and below you can tell them to shove it and get away with it most of the time. On monarch and above it generally will require a war if you do that.
On deity/sid i always pay in ancient age unless i actually WANT war with that civ or if he is on an island from where he wont reach me. I suggest doing this on emperor as well. Certainly in greece does so. We cannot have war with greece and if we get war, we have nothing to win, only to lose. We cannot beat their defence 3 units and thus cannot conquer any of their cities (also making it harder to regain peace)
More about the city placement thingy and horses: at this moment, growth and defence are very important. Also if we go to war, i suggest starting out with swordsmen only since horses die too much, the many mountains negate its movement advantage and the enemy is close enough to use movement one units. retreat only works 50%, i rather have the much better chances of winning from the swords. Most of all though, i prefer to delay war until we settled all the ground that is available to us and possibly got to republic.
The AI taking the horses really is no risk in here.
It is best to first build those cities that provide us most benefit in growth, production and commerce. Horses do not provide us benefit for the near future because we dont need horsemen yet. This all is assuming in PTW retreat actually is 50%, i know it used to be 100% someday long ago, am i right that in this version it is 50% like in c3c ?
A screenshot for some dotmapping would be nice, but we need some more exploration. You can always move the warriors in the cities one or tiles out away from the cities to scout a little. That way they can get back to the city when needed.
Going for a conquest victory indeed needs militairy, but always be carefull not to go to war too early since there are more than 1 opponents.
Building militairy comes at a cost of long term power as you could also be spending on granaries, workers, libraries etc that give long term advantages.
It always is a matter of finding the right moment to go to war. If you have build up so such a powerfull nation before going to war that you run over your enemies with such a power that you have more units than needed and are only slowed down by your units movements, you are too early.
If after fighting your first opponent you notice the other opponents having grown more powerfull than you while your power growth was slowed down during the war, you started too early. (that is only for conquest reasoning of course, there can be other reasons like resources that make you go to war early, but we have both resources we will need in ancient age)
In some strategy games, there are no things like corruption etc and conquering your enemies lands increases your power a lot since you will take the production from there. In civ however, this is not the case. the conquered lands are hardly productive, in civ, the benefit of a war is often not worth the cost of it. Attacking because you want conquest should be done when you can afford those costs, not earlier.
