SGOTM3 Rome - Team microbe

[ForTheEmpire]

Phew, not up yet

 

[barbslinger]

Just got back into town. I'll be playing tonight in about 6 hours. If Empire can take it prior to then we can swap this round. If not I'll be playing around 10pm pst

 

[ForTheEmpire]

I'm actually indisposed for the next 4 hours myself, so I don't think the 2 hour difference is all that big, certainly not big enough to change the roster. Besides, I want to see the famous Barbslinger in action before I play.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

@Barb

How stupid and insensitive of me I didn't realize this at first but if you just got back into town, you also have a bunch of sgs to do catch up on as well, not to mention the recuperating time. If you want to, I could take the sgotm load off you tonight. Up to you of course.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Alright guys, me and Barb made a switch, so I'll be playing this current set from 350bc. I do have several questions before I start playing tonight, and I'll post online anything I have questions about.

1) When is Otto supposed to be declared on? I haven't found the specific date, but I'll check again.

2) I'm in favor of trashing our rep to get construction and/or literature from Otto with the gpt deals and then we declare on him to get ourselves into the MA and our gpt deals cut. Fortunately the AI hasn't sent a pike down yet but I would like to get some pikes for our sake. I want your guys input on this, but this is moot is Otto's DoW is not within the next 20 turns.

3) Those two american workers I pointed out, is it just the road they completed? Then I'll have to pillage it then.

4) We have one settler with the horse/leg pair in the east next to the bab settler/warrior and the greek archer/horse. Where is he supposed to go, or is he at my disposal?

Well, the following is what I'm planning on doing this set. Please voice your opinions LOUDLY so the thick-headed one will listen

1) Get more legs and horse, destroy Sparta, and be in a position to strike at the next city(ies). Markets will have to wait after GA.

2) Try to squeeze one worker from a less productive town. I hate pulling citizens out during a GA but 3 workers for 9 cities (or 8, not sure) even in AW is too little.

3) Try to set up the next leader so that they will have more soldiers to command during their set, and minimize my own losses.

4) Get us into MA via Otto's deals. Again, please tell me the DoW and your thoughts on trashing our rep.

I'll play around 9:30 PST (-8:00 GMT) so please please I hope you guys are reading this and respond. If not, my sword is ready and ready to kill many units, or I will fall ungloriously in my sg debut

 

[ForTheEmpire]

MAJOR EDIT: I find that Russia declared on us on gozpel's last turn. So does that mean Otto's DoW is 20 turns from that point? That means we can make one final and clean deal with him.

 

[microbe]

These are the questions I actually don't know. There are two different understandings. Assume the AI order is A B C, we declare on A in turn X, so we are supposed to declare on B in turn X+20, on C in turn X+40. Now B declares on us (or vice versa) in turn X+10, some people think we should declare on C in X+30, some think X+40.

Maybe you can ask Mad-bax in private or in the maintenance thread. However, since the rule doesn't say this explicitly, I think either way should be fine.

By the way, everybody please use bold font for the events related to AI contact and war declaration with the year. It would make everybody's life easier to track this information.

EDIT: I asked in the maintenance thread, but I suggest you play on according to your own understanding.

EDIT2: someone answered in the thread:

Microbe - We had to ask this question as well.

This is the answer we were given:

If B declares early (turnY), declare on C on turn Y + 20.
If C declares early, then ignore them in the list and declare on B on turn X+20, and civ D on turn X+40.

HTH

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Alright, I saw sesnofwthr's response as well. In that case, I'll follow that line of logic, and I actually solved our mystery! We were SUPPOSED to have DoW on Otto on goz's 7th turn. I hope MB forgives us So the first thing I'll do is declare on Otto.

I still haven't gotten the one question of mine I need answered, to trash or not to trash our rep for those techs?

 

[ForTheEmpire]

BIG DELETION: What I wrote at 11:30 pm made no sense whatsoever. This pic is a teaser.

 

[microbe]

Nice. I guess it's an army then? Great Library has been built already, and so was Pyramids I guess. I think there isn't any good wonders to rush.

BTW I think we should push toward England. They have the Great Library.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

With his sword at the ready, a new Caesar has arisen. "FTE, FTE, FTE,"
shout the hordes of the masses as he arives in chariot towards Palace. He
takes a deep breath for he knows that this age is full of barbarian hordes who shun the beauty that which is Rome. May the Gods watch over his first years of his reign.

Preturn:
4/4 leg KILLS 4/4 greek archer, promote 5/5.
Move lone spear from Ravenna to the worker stack as the Bab spear is going for them it seems. The whole declaration of war is driving me nuts!!! It is supposed 20 turns after our last declaration, but MB never mentioned how to deal with a premature declaration by the AI. So maintenance thread help
says if an AI declares on us before it's supposed DoW, the next DoW down the contact list goes 20 turns from that point. So I talk to Otto, decide heavily on a phony deal... The new Caesar, though a bloodlusting animal, has some semblance of honor. I declared at 350BC. And now, no one is safe from the terrible might of Rome...

IT:
Troop movement, most important being a hoplite/settler from Sparta popped out and is heading south on their roads. Also that Bab spear is now heading towards undefended Ravenna as well the rest of the hit parade.
Pompeii: Warrior --> Worker
Hispalis: Worker --> Armamentarium
Babs start Hanging Gardens

Turn 1 330BC:
We have 15 legs, if we can somehow just get them to gather in one location and then strike, we can do some serious damage. Unfortunately, our forces our spread out for MP duty and border patrol. I disband those two American workers. The new worker from Hispalis will mine a grassland. 3 turns of 2 shields (rest of GA) is better than none. Moved back the spear to Ravenna, sent horse from Rome to defend the two workers. Forted some legs, moved some into town for healing.

5/5 leg FORCES RETREAT 4/4 Greak horse cleanly.

Moved out two 4/4 legs out of Veil to go help with the Greek front. That's six legions in that region now, two more and may be enough to take out all the northern Greek towns.

IT:
French send a sword at us from the north. 1 English spear on pillaging mission.

Turn 2 310BC:
Hmm? The GA is about to end next turn, FTE Caesar is most displeased... Virconium founded 2NE, 1E of Veil --> Armamentarium.
5/5 leg is there forted to defend.

4/4 Horse RETREATS 3/3 French spear, spear 3/3.
4/4 Horse KILLS 3/3 Bab warrior, redlined, promoted 2/5. Workers executed.

Moved 4/4 leg from Veil towards our vinum to prevent pillaging. Boost our lux to 20 to prevent possible rioting next turn from Rome at the cost of 5 nongained gold. 4/4 Horse from antium to adjacent hill to move that same Bab spear to low ground.

IT:
1/4 horse DIES 3/3 French spear, 3/4
French start Hanging Gardens.
Rome horse --> leg

Turn 3 290BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 2/4.
5/5 horse KILLS 2/4 Bab spear, 4/5.
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek hoplite, promotes 2/5
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Greek hoplite, 1/3
5/5 leg KILLS 1/3 Greek hoplite, 3/5, Sparta is razed.

The kills:losses ratio 5:3, not good, not good at all! I take a worker off Rome and he's now a scientist. 1spt loss does not change turns needed for leg, which sets our science to minimum and gaining some more gpt. We apparently have 4 Greek towns to our south and south east. At least 3 Greek towns in the fog to our north east. I'm reconsidering that push now since the AIs are starting to send their troops in greater numbers. Casear is also seriously considering the advent of catapults, but dismisses the ordering of their making.

IT:
Troop movement now shifts east. 3 French swords come from the north out of the fog, as well as a French spear/settler pair.

Turn 4 270BC:
5/5 leg KILLS 4/4 English Horse, 1/5

MMed Veil to get more shields this turn. Moved some core troops towards Cumae, but Ravenna appears to be the target since it only has 1 spear. The spear from Neapolis goes to Ravenna, leaving 1 horse to guard Neapolis. I hope to draw that Bab bowmen into open ground for next turn. Move lux up to 20% to prevent Veil and Antium from rioting next turn.

IT:
4/4 Spear KILLS 3/3 Russian Warrior, 3/4 healing.
Ravenna is definitely the target for the AI.

Turn 5 250BC:
4/4 leg FORCES RETREAT 4/4 Greek horse, 4/4.
4/5 leg KILLS 4/4 Greek archer, 4/5.
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 English spear, 2/4.
4/4 horse DIES 2/3 English horse, 1/3.
5/5 leg KILLS 1/3 English horse, 5/5 but is now exposed to mini French SoD (3 reg swords, 1 reg archer). At least the leg is on mountain and there is a river separating himself from the French. These mountains will be great for us for travel once we start heading towards the French. The legs will be 6 def in the high ground.

Adjust to 30% lux to prevent Veil from rioting. Caesar says those citizens will rue the day that they oppose his rule...

IT:
4/4 Spear KILLS 3/3 French Archer, 1/4 healing.
More bowmen marching east from Uruk. An English galley approaches Hispalis in the south.

Turn 6 230BC:
Move Rome's leg to guard vinum. Sent Rome horse to the south to deal with galley landing party.
4/4 Alf leg KILLS 2/3 Greek horse, promotes 3/5.
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Russian warrior, 3/5, disband the two workers.
5/5 leg KILLS French 3/3 archer, 4/5... and...

So there indeed is a man, full of valour, that is willing to rise above his peers in battle to lead the Roman armies.
Trajan has arisen!

Switched a tile between Ravenna and Neapolis to get a leg finished next turn instead of 2 turns later. Trajan heads to Neapolis to form that army next turn. Total defense of Ravenna consists of one 5/5 leg, one 5/5 horse, two 4/4 spears, and one 4/4 horse. I just realized that the town doesn't have walls. That's next after this leg build. Moving two 4/4 legs and one 5/5 horse towards the new Greek town of Herakleia, can be attacked in 2 turns. French swords 2 tiles away. MMed Veil so that I can take one citizen off and be a taxman and still have leg due next turn in order to lower lux rate to 20%. I see it's not on a river, so it will stay no growth on pop 6. Changed Pisae to worker instead of a warrior. Also MMed Rome by taking a citizen off of the irrigated game tile, so Antium can use it to grow. Rome beyond size 7 would be painful due to lux tax.

IT:
5/5 leg KILLS 4/4 Russian archer cleanly
English galley lands one 4/4 horse next to Hispalis.
Greek galley came out of the fog to land one 4/4 Greek archer.
Pisae worker --> worker (we need a lot more than 5)
Veil leg --> leg
Antium horse --> leg

Turn 7 210BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 3/3 BAH!!!
5/5 horse KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, 1/5
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, clean 5/5
4/4 horse KILLS 4/4 English horse, 1/4 but will die due to that Greek archer. Moved new horse from Antium next to Hispalis to help retake it if necessary.

3/5 Team Microbe's Saviour!!! leg heads to Neapolis to our army. The Battle of Ravenna will commence next IT. Four French 3/3 swords and 1 3/3 archer, 1 Bab 3/3 Bowmen, 1 Russian 3/3 Archer may all attack and if they all win, Ravenna will be taken. I have for defense two legs (5/5 and 4/4), two spears (both 4/4) and three horses (two 4/4 and one 1/5).

IT:
Hehe, this is more like it
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, 4/5
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, promotes, 4/5
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, 3/5
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French archer, 4/5
1/4 horse KILLS 3/3 Greek archer Wasn't such an easy kill huh?
Veil riots I thought I had that one MMed right...

Turn 8 190BC:
Ceasar is most pleased by the victories his soldiers are accumulating at Ravenna. He is however losing his patience with the general populace... Veil MMed so I can get one turn of minimum science in. The Battle of Ravenna continues next IT. The Greek town of Herakleia will be attacked next turn by two 4/4 legs and one 4/4 horse. After healing, four legs in the east are ready to move against the Greek city of Delphi.

IT:
America wants peace? Caesar defines peace as a world where the only language spoken is latin, and the only people that walk the land are Roman by descent. He dismisses Abe.
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, 4/5
Spears moving to our workers.
Rome leg --> leg

Turn 9 170BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear,
4/4 leg KILLS 2/4 Bab spear cleanly, 4/4
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek Archer cleanly, 5/5
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek hoplite, 2/4
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Greek hoplite, 1/3
5/5 horse KILLS 1/3 Greek hoplite, 4/5 and Herakleia is razed.

Relocate 5/5 Alf and 4/4 legs to deal with two 3/3 Archers near Virconium. Legion Army will be fully loaded and ready, but not fully healed next turn. Caesar's successor will have a fully healed army at his disposal.

IT:
The Germanic Tribes of the North wish an audience with us. He demands that WE pay for peace, 180 gold! Uh...Good bye!
Two english 4/4 swords appear in the north west.

Turn 10 150BC:
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Russian warrior, 4/5 and disposes of the two workers.
4/4 horse DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 2/3 These Bab spears are doing all the hurting on our forces!
4/4 leg KILLS 2/3 Bab spear cleanly, 4/4 (That's the last one!!!)

Trajan has rallied the legions under his command and his army is ready for battle! But first, a little R&R for healing groucho . He is at the ready for the next Caesar, in Neapolis. Monarchy due in 17 set at 8.0.2 with +25gpt. Treasury is 339.

Summary: 29:8. That's my kills:deaths ratio for the past ten turns. Without any form of bombardment, I think this ratio is borderline acceptable. I made some risky attacks, for example, most leg deaths came because I was trying to defend Rome itself, iron, and wines from pillging. I think I lost 3, 4 units total just from that. I'm surprised that I haven't lost a unit on defense yet. I played Rome quite a bit before, but in purely offensive contests. This is the first time I'm using Rome's legions in a defensive war. I'm impressed so far. More power to the legion! In all, I added 3 more workers, 1 more legion, and 1 army (which has 3 more legions, so I actually am +4 legions compared to turn 1). I think my estimation on the fall of the Greeks is a little short. I think in 15 turns the northern cities can fall I didn't realize Greece had a few more cities up there and to the south as well. Also, keep those units in the East there. The other AIs are sending in 3/3 warrior/settler pairs and make great leader fishing opportunities for the three elites we have in that region.

I was hoping to start moving some legions towards France this set, but instead it turned into a leader fishing event. I tried to choose the battles I felt were tactically sound and where the probabilities were in my favor, but obviously that didn't always happen. Ravenna is the hotzone I think due to not having walls. It's due in next turn, so the AI may choose to redirect its attacks elsewhere. Also, due to exposed workers, the AI will still keep sending in those spears every now and then.

I really wanted to get a settler out, but I couldn't find a city that could make one due to the sudden influx of AI units. I hope the next leader will get out one or two to cover my ineptness in that deparment.

Also, the southern town of Hispalis is the current target of AI galley landings. As long as a roaming horse or two is around then I think that area will be fine.

Consider deficit research to get monarchy in faster. Our tech situation is abysmal but certainly not hopeless. I really wanted to trash the rep but it seems like an exploit to make a gpt deal for for techs, then canceling it with war. At least no MedI yet so things are good. No German forces yet as well. Otto may be at war with someone up north, but then again, he is very far away.

Next settler that comes out should go east to the incense hill 2E, 1NE of Virconium or 1SW of the ruins. Our residential malcontents need to get high on some incense to reduce the lux to 10%.

Sorry about the rioting in Veil. I thought I had the happys/unhappys balanced, but I guess not. BTW, another reason I want to play sgs is to have my MM critiqued. I feel this is my weakpoint still, and needs more work. I focused the MMing to get units out faster. I didn't see an opportunity to build any markets or temples or any improvements of any sort. Save is posted here 150BC SAVE

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Okay, I had to figure this out properly, so I carefully read through the maintenance thread after DJMGator posted what actually is the proper way to handle out of order DoWs. He referenced Civ_Steve's examples and MB response. To sum it up all up. The original 20 turns of DoWs still maintains. So... in our case...

Russia, Babs, Germany, in that order must be declared on.

Russia + 20 from X. Babs + 40 from X. Germany + 60 from X. The X turn/date is confusing but whatever. Babs did go preemptive way before Russia DoW. Still, we maintain the turns. At the point, Russia still + 20 from X, Germany + 60 from X. We were doing it, or at least I was, from 20 from the last DoW made.

To sum it up, I didn't have to declare on Otto, and I could have gotten techs in honorable gpt deals. Sigh... I really hate these rules, but what's done is done. I hope you guys don't flame me too much for my preemptive declaration

 

[microbe]

Barbslinger - up
ForTheEmpire - just played
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

 

[barbslinger]

Got it. Will have a look at the save later and possibly post tonight.

 

[barbslinger]

SGOTM3_mic-150bc

Preturn – First order of business after checking everything is getting a leader with that E horse in Ravenna. Slingers Foray is born. Viroconium does not look promising with the 2 archers looking down at us but goes to walls if we survive it. How did those archers sneak by the legion standing next to them? From the south? Pisae goes to a spear to use the rax it has and the Hispalis rax swaps to pult to let it grow a little prior to building workers. Lux goes up a notch to let Veii do it’s legion in 4 and then we put sci-sli at 10% for monarchy in 17. This game is now AW. Walls in every town guys.
IT – Ravenna-Walls>Legion, Hispalis-Pult>Worker and growth in 5. We lose Slingers Foray to a spear.
[1] 130BC – Build the army in Rome and load with a legion there. Get another leader from the 2 archers that never fired at Viro. That’s 3 armies and we can build the pentagon to load 4ths. Fortify a legion in Cumae to have 4 units vs 5 coming at us. They are only 3-4% win chances though. I’m hoping they do attack.
IT – They attack with 3 bowmen and we lose 3 total HP. They others move to our core to meet our armies forming up. Rome-Leg>Leg, Neapolis-Walls>Leg, Viro-Walls>Worker on growth at 10. An archer lands near Hispalis.
[2] 110BC – The archer landing wouldn’t be so bad if I hadn’t of moved a worker to irrigate the cow. Just realized we only have 10 cities so no 3rd army. Rome gets a rushed market. Kill a couple more units and prep for swords coming towards Neapolis. Lose a legion that was a 7% favorite at Greek Delphi. Kill the archer near Hispalis with the horse losing a HP and then recover the worker.
IT – Get the HE message. Rome-Market>Legion. Antium-Legion>Legion. Lose a spear guarding a 1hp legion that killed a bowman on a hill last turn.
[3] 90bc – A few kills later another leader come forth. He can rush the HE. Killed a Russian settler pair for 2 needed slaves. Lost a horse on a sword attack.
IT – Veii-Leg>HE. The FP is needed too and I’m hoping for another leader really soon.
[4] 70bc – No luck this round lose a legion to a hoplite trying for a pillage and then no leaders. Only one enemy unit that can attack but it is only a bowman at 3% odds. 3 legs and a horse moving on Delphi when they heal.
IT – HE is in, set to Settler to try to get the 12th town.
[5] 50bc – Kill 1 archer to go elite and heal the rest. Take a sht with ALF after seeing he was a 90% fav against unfortified archer in the mountains and he loses miserably.
IT – Get attacked by a Greek sword. Damn I thought they had no iron. We win though. Rome builds a legion.
[6] 30BC – Adjusting troop positions for next wave coming. 3 swords, the same bow, archer and another hoplite trying to pillage. Our one army is off to pillage.
IT – Here they come! There are also a lot of settler pairs heading to the south. Neapolis-Leg>Leg.
[7] 10bc – Another leader! What to do? What to do? Hold off on killing some of the other units because we are favored on defense. Changed my mind on the Delphi attack in 3 and kill the settler pair after losing a horse. I haven’t had a retreat this whole turnset.
IT – A few builds including a settler. We get another settler in 2 so I think I’ll wait with the leader.
[8] 10AD – Collect 2 more sets of slaves. Positioning to get the next group of towns down. Going for the spices in our west.
[9] 30ad – SunTzu’s is being built. Collect a couple more slaves.
[10] 50ad – 2 more slaves.
3 horses vs. our two legions in Neapolis is OK they have less than 1% chance of winning. They will probably head for the slaves or Rome. The archer N of Veii has been there a while waiting on backup. He’s no threat. We may lose a spear in Ravenna but there is one building on the IT. There is asettler heading SW of Antium to get the spices. Get them on line prior to revolting to monarchy. The other settler is heading S to settle on the hill next to the Greek border with the 3 bg’s. Road to there and send some legions to take that town out down the line. Once settled make the army or if brighter people determine to go for FP that is fine too. I don’t see any place really worthy as yet and the 3rd army is important to get the pentagon that the next leader can rush. There is a picket line of slaves coming through the eastern mountains.

 

[barbslinger]

Our score is falling apart. The pillaging army should get busy on France and England, IMO, and grease the skids for getting after them. We are going to start seeing MI's soon and cats will help a lot. Hopefully those 2 new towns will get down and help the score. We need a lot more units.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Well, the leader floodgates have opened, that's certainly encouraging. I wish it would have occurred back in the early days so we could have free Pyramids, GL, Oracle, etc... I agree with getting a third army, and rushing a Pentagon with next leader. The FP should be maximized to have its own set of 1st and 2nd rings. I'm thinking somewhere in the French lands would be a good FP city.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

How did those archers sneak by the legion standing next to them? From the south?

The two archers appeared from the West. The two legions were actually a bit NE of where they were originally, and were coming back to deal with those archers.

 

[microbe]

Let's not worry about scores. This is a hard game, and to many of us the first AWE level game. I'd be satisfied if we just win. Let's just enjoy the game itself.

We would get much better score if we got a leader early and rushed Pyramids. So it does somehow depend on luck.

Barbslinger - just played
ForTheEmpire
microbe - up
gozpel - on deck
scout

I'll play this tonight.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Let's not worry about scores. This is a hard game, and to many of us the first AWE level game. I'd be satisfied if we just win. Let's just enjoy the game itself.

We are of the same mind. I'll take great satisfaction with us finishing this game with a win. If we forget about the scores and play with the mindset of just beating the AIs down, we'll be fine.