SGOTM3 Rome - Team Peanut

[AlanH]

In the back of my mind I've assumed everyone was going for Conquest - What else would a good Xenophobe do?

What else indeed, but it's a rash assmption
[HINT]: If you use the Jason score calculator and plug in the Firaxis score posted for each team you can find out which victory condition matches their posted Jason score. That tells you how they won.

 

[Keith Larson]

Have the game save and will play a few turns tonight. I am a bit brain dead right now, but the diversion will be good for me. Thanks everyone for the understanding.

 

[Keith Larson]

Pre-turn: 1335 AD
No changes.

IBT:
Lots of Barb activity.

Turn 1: 1340 AD
Move to attack Houston next turn.
Move to attack Aztec capital next turn.
Found Little Round Top on Aztec hills next to grapes. This location will give us a healing point for most of the Aztec region.
Advance towards Kyoto.

IBT:
Indian Outpost took a beating but held on. Lose one Musket and one Legion.

Turn 2: 1345 AD
Kill lots of wounded units around Indian Outpost.
Barely take Kyoto at the loss of three Cav.
Lose a Legion attack American Settler/Spearman. Finish them off with Cav.
Take Houston a put everyone to the sword. Move on to last American city. Next turn should be it for them.
Take out Aztec capital at the loss of 4 Cav.
I mistakenly moved Legion Army away from Rome Conquers All thinking there was a settler in the group. A new settler landed this turn and the Army will have to move back one tile next turn to cover it.
I am uploading and calling it a night. Next up!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1345_01.SAV

 

[Peglegasus]

Keith, you are by no means letting us down. We understand completely. Gotta do what you gotta do. Civ_steve and I kinda feel bad hoggin the game I think! Anyway, I can probably play some tomorrow night. Well actually I guess that would be tonight... lost track of time here at the station. Sunday night is what I mean!

 

[civ_steve]

What else indeed, but it's a rash assmption
[HINT]: If you use the Jason score calculator and plug in the Firaxis score posted for each team you can find out which victory condition matches their posted Jason score. That tells you how they won.

That sounds too technical for me! OK, I guess we're not playing for first runner-up after all.

Whoever plays next, please post a got-it. I'm assuming Peglegasus will play a few turns unless bigchief or Peanut chimes up. There are some Cav in the Caravels off RCA that can be activated and moved into RCA; might as well do it. I'd also suggest that the Cav stack near Kyoto's remnants be moved 1 space West, so that while they heal they are one turn away from that next Japanese city. And keep an eye on that Japanese Galley off our Eastern coast; we don't want Japan landing some units in our backside! I was moving the Caravels to catch up with them, but they've fallen further behind; there's only the one caravel adjacent to the Galley now.

(Edit - whoever plays next, we have to stay aggressive, especially with regards to penetrating to the far corners, the NW part of Japan, and that SW tundra area on the other side of the Aztecs. These areas are hardest to get to, so we have to keep an army with Cavs moving forward towards these corners; the remaining cities can be picked up by new units moved over, or by Cav moved back to our outpost cities to heal, after they've healed. Clearing out those corners will be a major element of how long before we finish our game. We still need to heal wounded Cavs, but consider adding Healed cavs to these penetrating units to keep them moving forward if our unit count drops low in these stacks.)

 

[Peanut]

Comrades :

Regrettably I have been incommunicado for the past few days and sadly I cannot see that I can play for the next week. I am counting on you all to slaughter mercilessly, and quickly. The whole world must be pure Roman before we can rest on our laurels (whether they be gold, silver, bronze or lead).

I will check in and drop the occasional comment when I can. It will probably all be over before I am free again. Good luck and may our swords never rust !

 

[Peglegasus]

Posting a "got it"! Don't know if I'll play 5 or 10 turns, but I'll play something!


And sgotm4... 5cc? never ever tried 5cc before! interesting.

 

[civ_steve]

One thing you can be sure of - the turns will go much faster!

I'd like to see this game finished soon. If either Keith, bigchief or Peanut believe they can play after Peglegasus, please put a post saying so in the thread. Otherwise, I'll assume I have it and play after Peglegasus.

Peglegasus: keep the pressure on and push forward. The AI is mostly depleted of offensive forces; an army stacked with Cavalry units will protect the Cav, leaving the AI with not much to attack. Units with 3 or more Hitpoints against them should be moved back to an outpost city for healing; 2 or less might be healed in place, if there's a safe place to regroup. If you penetrate in towards a city the prior turn and can attack the next turn with no more than 1 movement beforehand, your surviving Cav will have extra movement at the end of the turn to regroup (so it's good to do this). And it was my plan to block off the passages going around our continent so no more AI naval units could penetrate to our backside; don't forget about that Japanese Galley that's off the former Greek coast.

 

[Peglegasus]

almost finished with my turns. 22 cities razed so far, so the map has changed quite a bit. armies are in need of healing so things slowing down a little. reinforcements are on the way over. india has riflemen now but the only cities they have left are quite small. japan is nearly gone. the aztecs are the big dog now.

 

[Peglegasus]

Well, I did the best I could. Unfortunately we aren't going to beat out Xteam's date of 1410AD. The Aztecs and the Iroquois each have 7 cities left, India and Japan have 6 each. I was really aggressive on multiple fronts and most cities fell pretty easily. The Aztecs are the tough ones. You can pretty much count on at least 2 muskets in each one and sometimes longbows and cavalry as well. The Japanese were much easier. Generally had a samurai and a pike or two each. But now they have gotten saltpeter from somewhere. I haven't seen any muskets from them yet but they now have cavalry running around. The Iroquois have been sending a few knights and mounted warriors up to our outposts but not much else from them.

We have about 2 dozen fresh cavalry on their way over to the southern landing zone, a few up north waiting to catch the ferry, and more scattered around en route to the coast to hop aboard caravels.

I have some screens I'll post in a bit

1395AD save

 

[Peglegasus]

1345AD to 1395AD turn log

Turn 0: Move cavalry out of caravels and into RCA. Move forward units on Japan front west to heal, as suggested. Pop rush 3 horses. Move some caravels around.

IBT: Japanese galley sinks caravel by New Rome. The barbs are freakin out! 6 samurai approach Indian Outpost. I get out my Photek cd to listen to the remix of "seven samurai". Aztec cavalry approaches Little Round Top.

Turn 1:1350AD: 2 cav armies take down 2 muskets and raze Xochicalco. 13 fresh cavalry move to within striking range of Teayo and Tlacopan. Send 8 cav units south to work on the tundra towns. Buffalo is razed and America is gone from the game. Take out 2 samurai at Indian Outpost. Lose 3 caravels trying to sink a Japanese caravel. Bother.Upgrade a few units.

IBT: Lose 1 musket and 2 cav in counterattacks.

Turn 2: 1355AD: 5 cavalry raze Tlacopan with one loss. Teayo razed with no losses. Nagoya razed by 2 armies and one elite cav. Condestageion (sp?) razed by 2 cav. A few more upgrades.

IBT: Lose 1 cav 2 aztecs

Turn 3: Kagoshima razed by 3 cav armies. Atzapotzalco razed. Miskey an army and waste an attack on a longbow. Bangalore razed.

IBT: Lose 2 cavalry to Japanese cavalry!? Who gave them saltpeter?! Had a little stack healing in a spot I though was safe, but no... Lose 1 unit to India and one to Iroquois.

Turn 4: 1365AD: Edo razed by 3 cav armies.

IBT: Lose 1 cav to India.

Turn 5: 1370AD: New Hispalis founded. Sink Japanese galley on east coast. Osaka razed by 2 elite cavalry. Lose 3 cavalry attacking Kolhapur. Several other cavs retreat and we are unable to take it. This is India's last big city.

IBT: Lose 1 cavalry to japanese cavalry, one to India. Legion slain by barbs.

Turn 6: 1375AD: Total Carnage! Tula razed. Satsuma razed, losing 2 cavalry. Kolhapur razed by knight army. Tlalmanalco and Tlatlelolco razed with one loss each. Ganogeh razed. Pillage saltpeter to build more horses... iron is hooked up somewhere. Rush 4 horses.

IBT: Japan is mustering an impressive number of units for a civ that is in its death throes. Lose 3 cavalry to japanes cav. I really hadn't expected much offense from them! 2 attacking japanese longbows are killed. Lose 1 cav to Aztecs. Musket kills one attacking Aztec cav. Lose 1 legion to Aztecs.

Turn 7: 1380AD: India has riflemen now. Bugger. We raze Hyderabad... 1 rifle and 1 musket defending. Izumo razed as well as Cempoala. Huexotla razed but at the loss of 4 cavalry. I'm amazed that the super musket defender didn't get a leader. Pop rush about 14 horses. Found a couple new towns.

IBT: Iroquois knight kills 1 cav.

Turn 8: 1385AD: Nara razed. Couple more towns founded. Pop rush 7 horses and 2 cav.

Turn 9: 1390AD: Matsuyama razed. Another new town founded. Moving 2 armies to the south to join up with more cav units... the armies decide to take a shot at Centralia as they pass through Iroquois lands. Super musketman fights first army down to 2 hits! bah. 2nd army takes out 2nd musket much more easily. Pike left defending.

IBT: Japanese cavalry attack redlined army and destroy it. Iroquois longbow kills elite cavalry.

Turn 10: 1395AD: Raze calcutta. Found some new towns. sink Indian caravel

 

[Peglegasus]

Map at 1345AD:

Map at 1395AD:

 

[civ_steve]

Alrighty; a lot of AI stomping going on!. I was hoping you'd have done them all in , but I guess that wasn't to be. I'll assume I'm next, and load up the save file tonight. Probably play tomorrow, so last chance if anyone else wants it.

 

[Peglegasus]

Alrighty; a lot of AI stomping going on!. I was hoping you'd have done them all in

Yes, I was hoping that too. I don't see how it could be done. At some point if I have some more time I want to replay those turns doing it a little differently and see what I can come up with. Anyway here are some screens.

There are some units WAY down south that you probably wouldn't notice otherwise... they should be healed up on the next turn and ready for some destruction.

There are two armies here that I brought down from the north to team up with the cavalry just south of here. I took a shot at Centralia with them but should have been more patient and gotten them all together. The other cav by the armies here I should have brought one tile east to have striking range on centralia next turn but screwed it up.

Armies working on japan.

These guys are working their way onto the little peninsula here and smashing things up as they go. They may need to hold off and wait for reinforcements and some healing though.

This is a trouble spot. These guys just came out of nowhere. I liked Japan better before they had cavalry.


So as I said before there are a bunch more cavalry headed over, and there are lots of settlers around too. So many settlers in fact that I didn't quite know what to do with them all! I settled some towns around the new capital to make a new "core", though it won't ever produce much as the game is almost over. I really thought those new towns would be relatively safe with Japan all but crushed, but Japan is still able to launch reasonable counterattacks. Unfortunately after I moved some of the northern forces to the south where they were needed more, Japan got cavalry.

Anyway, I'm glad the game is almost over. Sorry I couldn't finish them all off!

 

[civ_steve]

I'm a few turns into it, just getting the next wave of Cavalry to the front line. I found most of the units you've mentioned, and have even held onto New Gonzonium! (I thought I could move a Legion from RCA over to it, but it had moved this turn and could only move one space! For some reason it became a Cav Magnet, and actually killed 1 Cav before going down to a 2nd, and this relieved the pressure on New Gonzo!) I should be able to conclude during this set of turns, and if I'm close and haven't done it after 10, I'll finish off (if there are no objections.)

My original plan for your set of turns, Peglegasus, was to send the primary forces (maybe 2/3's of our available, fairly healthy units) towards the far corners of Japan and the Aztecs, to clear out the farthest cities first, leaving the nearer cities to healed units, returning armies and reinforcements. I thought that would clear out the continent fastest. I think you started that way, but eventually cleared out the nearer cities first, which delays the time when the reinforcements can be effective. I also feel that our forward outpost cities are not forward enough; there's too much distance to cover for our frontline wounded Cav to return to a base for healing. Ideally they should be spaced at intervals of 9 movement spaces from the landing spot; that way new reinforcements can move quickly to the front and have a safe base to stage out from. When we're done, I may revisit this to see if these changes in tactics make much of a difference.

 

[Peglegasus]

I've been replaying the turns I did, trying to learn from them. I'm focusing much more on well placed forward outposts and being much more careful with wounded units (a little late, I know). I have to say that it certainly is working well in the sense that I'm keeping a lot more cavalry afield and protected, but I can't match the speed of my first try. I've probably only taken down half the number of cities this go around. Maybe this time I'm being too cautious, where before it was all about aggression.

I'd really like to see how one of you pros goes about a quick conquest like this because it's way out of my game experience.

 

[civ_steve]

I think that's good practice. This is an extreme game with lots of units available at the end which may not normally be the case.

I believe we have 11 Cavalry Armies and roughly 40-50 loose Cavalry on the 2nd continent, with more coming. Ideally I'd think about 5 stacks with 2 Armies and 8-10 Cavalry each could be formed, and start munching through the AI. Assuming you lost 1 Cavalry per attack, and 2 Cavalry were wounded to require healing, these stacks would start to get a little thin after 3-4 cities, but still that's 15-20 cities gone in that time. At that time you could pause to allow some wounded Cavalry to heal and rejoin the stacks, or you could expect some reinforcements to start to filter over. Optimally you can keep going and each stack would take out about 10 cities; at the low end you might take out 3, than wait 2-3 turns for healing, take out another 2-3, wait, etc. So a range of cities taken out, under ideal circumstances, would be about 25-50 during 10 turns.

Our circumstances aren't ideal: we have only 2 Armies in the South, but most of the loose Cavalry are down there. Wounded Cavalry heal faster than severley wounded Armies, so I'd be hesitant to commit the Southern Armies to many attacks, and use almost all Cav there. In the North, I'd have to use a lot of Armies, unless I want to try and hook up the two forces for redistribution, which would use a lot of turns.

I think its also important to maintain a tempo, and your momentum. Unless you're taking the last city in an area, it's better (IMO) not to completely exhaust your attacking units. If I'm down to 3-4 useable Cav, with various wounded Cav healing, if I use these last 3-4 Cav on an attack, I'll likely be left with nobody available the following turn and have to wait 2-3 turns to have a force again. If I pause a turn, I allow other Cav that are nearly healed to finish healing and join me, allowing me to continue the rampage the following turn. This type of timing varies depending on circumstances, so its best not to have hard and fast rules, but to try to get a sense of what you should do through experimentation.

In our circumstance I think it's best to drive to the corners first; these cities are hard to get to and will require a lot of moves and attacks to clear out. The closer AI cities are still vulnerable to our reinforcements, which need fewer moves to get to these nearer cities. I'll try to test this out after I finish this set of turns (just finished 1415, and I think another 4-6 turns will be needed; the Indian/Japanese peninsula to the West in the middle will be tough to clear.)

I would have liked to have beat Xteam's date, but not having done so does not diminish this team's effort. This was a difficult variant, and our team has done very well, especially considering that none of us (I think) is a real warmonger (well, most of the time.) If there is something to be learned about tackling these types of situations in the game, I'd like to learn it to help my future games finish a little faster. The real competition is not against the computer, but against the performance of the other competitors, and I'd like to see how I can shave a few turns off in the end game.

 

[klarius]

civ_steve, I don't think you could do much better in the very end.
This other continent is just awful . I also greatly underestimated it, but believe me it was even worse in Xteams game.
It was just too late when you arrived there in force.

 

[civ_steve]

Yup, the timing of events is tricky with this variant and this game. For a long time you exist in react mode, trying to keep the ocean of AI forces from overwhelming your defenses. At points you push out and establish new boundaries. Even later you turn to being more offensive, starting to hit the AI at their core. And later on you have to decide when you'll start planning your invasion of the next continent; for quickest effect this is done as the 1st continent is being done in; you waste a lot of time if you wait until you've fully secured the 1st continent before planning to take the 2nd. We contacted the 2nd continent very late; for the longest time we had no navy at all! All these choices impact the final ending.

I'll finally get some time to finish the game tonight; I promise! It's 1425, the Aztecs are gone, the Iroquois down to 1 tundra city, and forces are closing in on all fronts.

 

[civ_steve]

All done, just as promised.

Turn 0, 1395 AD
Not much, lose 2 Cav and 1 Legion to attacks; 1 Japan Cav died in attacks

Turn 1, 1400 AD
Kill Aztec LongB that killed our Cav
Cannon, than kill 1 Japan Cav, 3 Japan LongB adj to New Gonzo
Suo razed by Army
Centralia razed by Army (defended by 2 LongB's)
Assault on Tyandaega comes up short, retreat to Woods, covered by Cav Army
Far Southern nameless Aztec town destroyed (Spears defending); move remaining units towards Tamuin
Lots of Cav transported over

(IBT Japan loses 1 Cav, retreats 1 Cav, loses a LongB, and kills a Legion
India loses a Cav)

Turn 2, 1405 AD
From forward outpost in Aztecs lands
Tamuin razed; Army is joined by healed Cav to threaten Texcoco
Tyandega survives a 2nd round (1 Cav); a wounded Knight is its defender
Move big stack of Cav forward, near Texcoco
Regroup otherwise - Japanese NW armies recalled to heal; Indian Armies as well
Kill a couple loose enemy units
Load up Cav to NW and start moving across
Move Legion Army with Settler North to Japanese zone

(IBT, Cav defeats Samurai attack
some Aztec LongB's move around)

Turn 3, 1410 AD
6 Cav land at RCA
Do in some loose LongB's
Army near Indian remnant does in Rifle/Stlr stack
Texcoco is razed by 5 Cav losing 1, 3 from Reinf/2 from Tamuin Vets
Tepexpan is razed by 4 Cav losing 2, 2 from Reinf/2 from Tamuin Vets
Iroq Spearman guarding Isthmus to Tundra is overrun by Tamuin Cav Army
We are in the SW Tundra
Grand River (Aztecs) is razed by 4 Reinf Cav, losing 1
Tyandega is razed by Knight Army (only a Spear defending)
Do in an Iroq Knight and Aztec Cav

(IBT Indian Cav loses)

Turn 4, 1415 AD
Japan super Sam kills 2 Cav before succumbing
Chondote razed
Pressure on Salamanca (Aztec)
Dacca is razed
Tonawanda (Aztec) is razed
Pressure on St Regis and Allegheny

(IBT an Indian Horse, followed by WarElephant does in one of our Cav in the Tundra)


Turn 5, 1420 AD
St Regis Razed, adv on Indus
Salamanca is razed; the Aztecs are 7th to Go!
Mauch Chunk hangs on, barely
Allegheny is razed
Stacks form and head to Japan and India

(IBT 2 Japan Cav go around our Army stacks)

Turn 6, 1425 AD
Bizen in the North is destroyed
1 Army and 6 Cav moving forward against Japan in the North
1 Army and 5 Cav towards Nagasaki
Mauch Chunk is razed; Central Continent is cleared
Indus is razed in SW Tundra
2 Japan Cav and 1 Iroq Knight done in
Only Ganges and Unknown Iroquis city in SW Tundra
2 Cav Armies and 4 Cav threaten Hakodate in West Central Peninsula
Front Cav threaten Ganges and Unknown Iroq city in SW, with lots of reinforcements coming
Status: Japan 3 cities in NW, 2 in West Penin; India 2 in West Penin, 1 in SW Tundra; Iroq 1 in SW Tundra

(IBT Lose 1 Cav, 1 to loose Japan Cav, 1 to Indian LongB at Ganges)

Turn 7, 1430 AD
Hakodate is razed
Ganges survives, but 13 Cav are within Striking range
All 3 Northern Jap cities are threatened
Closing in on Indian Cap, Chittagong

(IBT, Japan Cav loses attacking Cav investing Nagasaki)

Turn 8, 1435 AD
Cav Army with 3 attacks razes Shimonoseki
2 Cav raze Sapporo
Nagasaki survives (1 hp Samurai; Japan Cav saved them)
1 Army and 1 Cav move adj to Nagasaki
4 Cav raze Ganges
6 Cav raze Oka; the Iroq are 9th To Go!
and the SW Tundra is clear!
1 Army and 1 Cav adj to Chittagong, 3 Armies move within Striking Range

(IBT and Indian Rifle/Stlr try to escape)

Turn 9, 1440 AD
Nagasaki is razed
Chittagong is razed
Ise is razed; Japan is 10th To Go!
Indian Rifle/Stlr is run over
Down to just Punjab, but TWO mountains to move through
3 Armies and 4 Cav are on their way

Turn 10, 1445 AD
Stack is now adjacent to Punjab

Turn 11, 1450 AD
No more Punjab, no more Indians, no more Game!
Our world is now pure (except for all those lowly barbarians)

Conquest Victory noted in 1455.

End of Turnlog

Good job fellow Peanuts! I know we were just keeping our shells on for quite a while there, but once we broke out there was no stopping us! And a great performance for a bunch of Romans that never changed out of Despotism! I think there are certain pluses and minuses to doing that, and overall we did a very good job of it.

Save at Conquest Victory, 1455 AD