SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

[Wotan]

@Dmanakho: What a brilliant opportunity to teach your kid how to play Civ.

I would wait a few turns for Monarchy it should be "just around the corner" and if we get it in time for the campaign vs. Persia we will both be in GA and have the HG and SunTzu from the leader rushing it. Keep a cool head and wait for Monarchy, switch Utica to HG and finish it manually then rush SunTsu with the leader.

 

[dmanakho]

@Dmanakho: What a brilliant opportunity to teach your kid how to play Civ.

I would wait a few turns for Monarchy it should be "just around the corner" and if we get it in time for the campaign vs. Persia we will both be in GA and have the HG and SunTzu from the leader rushing it. Keep a cool head and wait for Monarchy, switch Utica to HG and finish it manually then rush SunTsu with the leader.

@Wotan: Guess what, he is playing Civilization already and i think pretty good for 3 year old
100% concur with Wotan on his plans for Utica... HG will bring us into GA, the rushing Suntzu with the path opened to Sistine (although it would be nice to inject a caphedral somewhere in and between) Good thinking Wotan!!!!

 

[Tarkeel]

I got it and will start playing now then

Will delay GA and have it triggered by wonder instead I think.

 

[Wotan]

Good luck, and may the AI be with us... Monotheism and Monarchy please, during your turns...

 

[Tarkeel]

Monarchy is in. The question is.. Wipe out rome? GA not started yet, but will be triggered when HG completes in a few turns.

 

[Wotan]

Monarchy is in. The question is.. Wipe out rome? GA not started yet, but will be triggered when HG completes in a few turns.

Yes!!! How many turns have you played? I believe there was about 140 shields left to finish HG when I left or roughly 7 turns. So a few turns to our GA then? 3, 4 or more? Get rid of Rome, there is a barb camp in the SE corner that generated a horde of barbs, during my turns they sacked the Roman city close to it at least once. I believe the lowered cost of research will benefit us if they are completely gone. India/Persia will give us ample opportunities to Leader farm and there are no elites near Rome anyway.

And, you know you are supposed to deliver monotheism too from the AI...

 

[Tarkeel]

Have played 7 now, starting on 8. HG built, Sun Tzu rushed, Rome dead and starting on Persia next turn. No sign of Mono yet though

 

[dmanakho]

Have played 7 now, starting on 8. HG built, Sun Tzu rushed, Rome dead and starting on Persia next turn. No sign of Mono yet though

Looks good. Mono will be there sooner or later...
We are going after theology after mono right?
What's next?? Education->Music Theory(bach's)->Astronomy(copernicus)???
Or some other path?

 

[Tarkeel]

(0) 250 AD
Change Utica to work Mountain instead of plains. Will add a worker to grow it to 12.
Change Theveste to work on soon to be irrigated tile.

IBT:
Indian swords attack archer and is killed

(1) 260 AD
Sabratha: Court->Temple, to get more land faster, and happines
Corruption is now 3/14 and 5/24
Cancel alliance and RoP with persia, saving us 1 gpt.
Make peace with India for 85g, 2 workers. We could have gotten their 2 cities as well, but we don't want to exterminate them (yet).
Turn lux down to 20% (Sabratha really needs some hapiness!)
Pull back forces from India to be ready to hit Persia when deals expire. Cut some roads to slow down Persia
I thought I had declared on rome, and start moving.. So will be delayed.

IBT
Rome kicks us out, how nice!

(2) 270 AD
Carthage: Num -> Med Inf (2 turns)
Theveste: Num -> Market
Persia has Monarchy!!! Utica has 217 shields, and producing 20, so we can afford to wait 4 turns to see if it pops without wasting shields. We can get it for Engineering though. Will keep checking, and trade it the turn we need to add gold to get it.
Declare on Rome:
Horseman razed Viroconium, which is undefended.

IBT
I forgot to check Sabratha after declaring, and it riots since it's 50% roman...

(3) 280 AD
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 spear -> 1/4 horse and 2 slaves
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 Spear -> 4/4 Sword
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 sword, razing Lutetia
We have a barbcamp in the south.
Persia no longer will give a straight trade, so we buy Monarchy for Feudalism+61g.
Utica switched to HG, due in 4.

IBT
India and Persia sign peace

(4) 290 AD
Carthage: MDI->MDI

IBT
Babylon demands republic. We refuse, and he declares war.
Persia start HG

(5) 300 AD
Civs are willing to pay GPT, so sell Monarchy around:
Germany: 118+5pt
Greece: 62+5pt
I decide to give Rome the boot:
4/4 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 horse
4/4 Sword vs 3/3 spear -> 2/4 spear
4/4 archer vs 2/4 spear -> 2/4 archer
4/4 archer vs 3/3 archer -> 4/5 archer, razing Neapolis
Lux down to 10%

(6) 310 AD
Carthage: MDI->MDI
Kill barbcamp.

(7) 320 AD
Golden Age triggered
Utica: HG->SUn Tzu. We have 30 spt. Maximize for commerce this turn though, and rush Sun Tzu
Carthage has 33spt, and will pump horses and mercs. Change to temple first
Rush harbor in Rusicade, so we will have horses after declaring next turn.

(8) 330 AD
Utica: SunTzu->Palace. We have 10 turns worth of prebuild (300 shields)
Sabratha: Temple->Market
Rusicade: Harbor->Barracks
Join 2 workers to Theveste (1 native, 1 roman), shaving 1 turn of market
Dial up Xerxes, and tell him his rugs stink.
Land 2 MDIs on Pasargadae
5/5 Archer vs 2/3 MDI -> 4/5 Archer
4/4 horse vs 3/3 pike -> 1/3 Pike
5/5 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 4/5 horse
5/5 horse vs 1/3 pike -> 4/5 horse, burning Sidon (2g, 1slave)
5/5 horse vs 3/3 spear -> 1/5 horse, burning Arbela (2g, 2 slaves)
4/4 horse vs 4/4 MDI -> 1/4 MDI
4/4 horse vs 3/3 MDI -> 1/4 horse
4/4 horse vs 1/4 MDI -> 2/5 MDI

IBT:
Lose an archer and horse on counter

(9) 340 AD
Carthage: Temple->Merc
Theveste: Market->MDI
Join another worker to theveste. It should grow naturally in 4 turns.
4/4 Horse vs 4/4 MDI -> 5/5 MDI
4/5 Archer vs 2/5 MDI -> 1/5 MDI (that's the 4th unit he kills)
4/5 Horse vs 1/5 MDI -> 4/5 Horse and leader!
4/4 MDI vs 3/3 spear -> 3/4 spear
4/4 MDI vs 3/4 spear -> 1/4 spear
What a sucky RNG

(10) 350 AD
Carthage: Merc->Merc
4/4 Archer vs 2/3 MDI -> 1/4 Archer

Notes:
Babylon is obviously not scientific. Not sure what they are instead
I've left 2 boats, one with leader on, the other should go explore north of India or south of Persia
We should turn on research soon, or our prebuild runs out.
Edu (Uni, cash rushed), MT, Astronomy sounds good.

Firaxis: 408
Jason: 540
Culture: 1431 / 36 pt

 

[dmanakho]

Great!!! One more leader...
Two way to use it:
1. build an army and then build Heroic Epic in Utica....
Do we want to risk a leader building an army??? We may or may not get another leader soon...

2. Once monotheism is researched we can cash rush caphedral and since we have a leader we should have time to build marketplace in Utica to get us some much needed gold... then use leader on Sistine upon researching theology... In this case we should keep our warfare at low level, since it won't bring us any more new leaders.

This is my last comment until Monday!!! I hope to come back and find out that we managed to build every single MA wonders

 

[dmanakho]

Hooters alert: Just loaded a save - Greece will give us 20GPT for republic and India will give us furs for currency...
I think both are very good deal....

We can research monotheism in just 4 turns with -59GPT (-39 if we make a trade with Greece). I would go for it instead relying on AIs to research.

 

[Wotan]

We can get it for Engineering though. Will keep checking, and trade it the turn we need to add gold to get it.

This is probably logic in a higher level than I can grasp but why wait until we have to pay gold for it????

Babylon is obviously not scientific. Not sure what they are instead

Don't you have CivAssist/CrpMapStat running in the background? CivAssist has all traits in it and Babylon is not a scientific tribe in this game

We should turn on research soon, or our prebuild runs out.

As Dman said in his reply, start researching again, we have too short a time to use the GA to waste it. We need to have GWs built during this period.

And, good turns Tarkeel!!! Another leader!!!

 

[Tarkeel]

Yeah, research monotheism. I should have started it, but I keep confusing it with Theology (Sistine). We will waste 2 turns of production (I think) if we max research it now.

ANother alert, I left some workers in our frontline city, they can go out and mine that hill with the others.

I only use MapStat, not assist thingie.

The logic in waiting till we have to pay gold is: They would offer a fair trade in the start. If they on the next turn wouldn't, it means they have started researching that tech, and it will drop more and more in value for each turn. If it hadn't dropped, then it would mean they researched mono, and we could keep waiting for it to pop grom GL.

 

[dmanakho]

So lets do it -> expedite mono research in 4 turns, then theology at full speed. cash rush caphedral in utica then marketplace (cash rush it one turn before theology is ready to avoid wasting shields/turns), rush sistine with leader upon Theology research.
Build Markets in all cities while we are in Ga, try to get to Education while we are still in GA and build as many Golden Age universities as we can (in utuca for sure).

And yes, this is my last post for today for sure

 

[smackster]

Wow, this team is on fire, leader fire, wonder fire, basically :devil2:

Don't kill Roo......mme too late. Not its ok, I would have kept them around, however annoying they were but no problem.

Will have to take time to look to comment further, I got it, but wont play until tomorrow.

DH probably hasn't worked out he's been skipped yet, and he'll be back up before he know that.

smackster

 

[Wotan]

The logic in waiting till we have to pay gold is: They would offer a fair trade in the start. If they on the next turn wouldn't, it means they have started researching that tech, and it will drop more and more in value for each turn. If it hadn't dropped, then it would mean they researched mono, and we could keep waiting for it to pop grom GL.

As I guessed, smarter than I am... Didn't think of that...

And I guess we need to research Monotheism/Theology on our own now, can it be done in time for the Palace prebuild? Hopefully we will be able to trade for Invention with either of them. Probably build Sistine and rush Leos if possible? Or an army now for Epic??? Smackster, you have the ball, how will you play it?

And finally: Just opened the save, the situation vs. Persia looks like we are in dire straits, we need peace ASAP or reinforcements. Taking their Eastern most city would be great since it would give us furs.

BTW, on my way to bed now, early morning tomorrow. We are dragging a friend away for his stagnight at 7 am and it will be a 24 hrs affair so do not expect any reasonable comments from me (as if they have ever been that) until monday at the earliest... will check in when I am back on sunday, but...

EDIT: Utica is 8 turns from finishing a Palace. We can have Monotheism in 4 turns but to have Theology in 4 turns is quite a different story. CivAssist puts it at 1066 beakers = 267 beakers per turn if done in 4. We have 244 now plus a few when setting the science worker in Sabarath on a tile but we are probably 20 beakers short per turn. So, we probably need another 5 for Theology and that means slowing Utica down just to make it not finish in 8 turns, ultimately Smackster can find a solution that will have it at 299 shields after 8 turns and then use "the big picture" to switch it to Sistine on the 9th turn. It will still be 9 - 10 turns from completing Sistine (600 shields, right) but we will have ample time to get Bachs/Leos with the leader if we manually finish Sistine.

 

[Tarkeel]

We pruned most of Persia in the first turn, but RNG hated me on the next... Reinforcements are coming, and soon we will have 3 units arriving every 2 turns.. So just hold ground till then (should be possible), but make peace if it gets dire.

 

[Wotan]

I've got it! How to research both Mono and Theology in 8 turns. Start by rushing a courthouse in Rusicade and join plenty of Indian workers to it (a whole pile of them in Rusicade) to bring it to at least 10 in size. that should put the beakers past 267 per turn... And bring down the corruption in Rusicade to the same level as in Sabarath so the rushed courthouse should pay for it self in no time...


I just had to find a way around that before going to sleep.

 

[smackster]

Good plan, assume that I still need to big picture it in

 

[Tarkeel]

Also possible to lose 1 production in Utica to delay it 1 turn...