M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Some good points, Chamnix. Has anyone submitted our info for the first spoiler?
SGOTM5 - Team MOTH
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
TimBentley
Deity
1550(0)-some MMing (how nice of Chamnix to do most of the work for me), switch Dacca to rax, switch Denver to rax, switch Jaipur to cossack
sell industrialization to Iroquois for 106g, 196gpt
cancel saltpeter deal with Arabia
when I propose industrialization and furs to Arabia for saltpeter and 1g, they complain about how we treated Scandinavia
sell industrialization to Arabia for saltpeter, 111g, 16gpt
sell industrialization to Japan for 124g, 8gpt
Vikings would refuse to pay 1g, 1gpt for silks (edit: I see Chamnix had already noticed our injured reputation)
renegogiate silks for dyes deal with Japan (had just expired) and throw in 8gpt
science to 90%, electricity in 13 turns, +128gpt
I'm not sure why tundra is being mined
wake up some military on home island to send to front
IBT-Denver rax->cossack
Japan starts Universal Suffrage
1555(1)-Iroquois know electricity, 556g would insult them
IBT-Arabia demands silks, I reluctantly give in due to our deals
Detroit cossack->cossack
build both wings to palace and their second stories
1560(2)-zzz
IBT-renegogiate gems deal with Zulu, giving 31gpt
renegogiate wines deal with France, giving furs and 15gpt
renegogiate peace with Arabia, losing wool
Dacca rax->cossack
1565(3)-Arabia no longer has extra wool
raise lux to 20% to reinstate WLTKD except in New Orleans; hiring a specialist there would lose more shields than it would gain
IBT-Egypt, India sign trade embargo against us
1570(4)-20% doesn't seem to be helping much than 10% would (only Hyderabad seems to lose production), so reduce lux to 10%
1575(5)-zzz
1580(6)-sell industrialization to Zulu for sanitation
sell sanitation to Japan for electricity, 8g
AI undoubtedly is researching replaceable parts, start research on scientific method
IBT-Two Indian cavs attack Calcutta; one retreats, one dies
India, America sign peace
Moskva factory->cossack
Merw market->cossack
1585(7)-elite cossack kills cav
IBT-Hyderabad cossack->cossack
Detroit cossack->cossack
Chittagong cossack->cossack
Cincinnati cossack->cossack
1590(8)-Zulu has communism, won't accept electricity and all our gold
IBT-pollution strikes Moskva
1595(9)-zzz
IBT-Arabia, France sign peace
Punjab market->barracks
Kente cossack->cossack
1600(10)-3 civs have communism and won't sell
Notes: We could build the Theory of Evolution in Movska
I expect Iroquois or Arabia to have researched replaceable parts by the time we research scientific method
There are now 10 cossacks, 10 cannons, and a rifleman in Calcutta
Here is the save.
sell industrialization to Iroquois for 106g, 196gpt
cancel saltpeter deal with Arabia
when I propose industrialization and furs to Arabia for saltpeter and 1g, they complain about how we treated Scandinavia
sell industrialization to Arabia for saltpeter, 111g, 16gpt
sell industrialization to Japan for 124g, 8gpt
Vikings would refuse to pay 1g, 1gpt for silks (edit: I see Chamnix had already noticed our injured reputation)
renegogiate silks for dyes deal with Japan (had just expired) and throw in 8gpt
science to 90%, electricity in 13 turns, +128gpt
I'm not sure why tundra is being mined
wake up some military on home island to send to front
IBT-Denver rax->cossack
Japan starts Universal Suffrage
1555(1)-Iroquois know electricity, 556g would insult them
IBT-Arabia demands silks, I reluctantly give in due to our deals
Detroit cossack->cossack
build both wings to palace and their second stories
1560(2)-zzz
IBT-renegogiate gems deal with Zulu, giving 31gpt
renegogiate wines deal with France, giving furs and 15gpt
renegogiate peace with Arabia, losing wool
Dacca rax->cossack
1565(3)-Arabia no longer has extra wool
raise lux to 20% to reinstate WLTKD except in New Orleans; hiring a specialist there would lose more shields than it would gain
IBT-Egypt, India sign trade embargo against us
1570(4)-20% doesn't seem to be helping much than 10% would (only Hyderabad seems to lose production), so reduce lux to 10%
1575(5)-zzz
1580(6)-sell industrialization to Zulu for sanitation
sell sanitation to Japan for electricity, 8g
AI undoubtedly is researching replaceable parts, start research on scientific method
IBT-Two Indian cavs attack Calcutta; one retreats, one dies
India, America sign peace
Moskva factory->cossack
Merw market->cossack
1585(7)-elite cossack kills cav
IBT-Hyderabad cossack->cossack
Detroit cossack->cossack
Chittagong cossack->cossack
Cincinnati cossack->cossack
1590(8)-Zulu has communism, won't accept electricity and all our gold
IBT-pollution strikes Moskva
1595(9)-zzz
IBT-Arabia, France sign peace
Punjab market->barracks
Kente cossack->cossack
1600(10)-3 civs have communism and won't sell
Notes: We could build the Theory of Evolution in Movska
I expect Iroquois or Arabia to have researched replaceable parts by the time we research scientific method
There are now 10 cossacks, 10 cannons, and a rifleman in Calcutta
Here is the save.
MOTH
Emperor
With Tim's most recent posting we are now:
Current Rotation:
Chamnix - up now
MOTH
Bede
M60
TimBentley - just played
Current Rotation:
Chamnix - up now
MOTH
Bede
M60
TimBentley - just played
TimBentley
Deity
I have the feeling somebody pillaged a road or something about 960 AD, cutting our fur connection to Scandinavia, and the game stupidly blamed it on us.
Got it. I should be able to play tonight - I will certainly at least spend some time looking at it tonight.
MOTH had brought up the possibilty of Communism earlier. My opinion is that we are better off in Monarchy due to cash rushing, but does anyone feel strongly that Communism is better in case I can acquire it during my turns?
MOTH had brought up the possibilty of Communism earlier. My opinion is that we are better off in Monarchy due to cash rushing, but does anyone feel strongly that Communism is better in case I can acquire it during my turns?
TimBentley
Deity
According to CivAssist, all cities in communism would have 88% corruption. Those in WLTKD would have 49% waste (which would mean if cities got courthouses they would have 49% corruption). On the other hand, alexman's calculator says they would have 33% corruption, 19% with a courthouse. I trust alexman's numbers more. I've never thought communism was a good choice pre-Conquests.
I'm in my 7th turn. Major events so far: we have a cossack army (although it is injured and will take forever to heal 
), and Lahore is ours again.
Here is the tech situation:
We have a monopoly on Scientific Method. Things that are "available":
Arabs: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 17g, 157gpt.
Vikings: Corporation, 2g, 0gpt.
Zulu: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 0g, 2gpt.
Japan: Corporation, 108g, 9gpt.
Iroquois: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 525g, 109gpt.
All of them except the Vikings also have Communism, but I don't see that as a priority.
The Arabs or the Iroquois will give all their gold for Sci Method, but if I try to include a tech from them, our advisor becomes doubtful. If I ask for replaceable parts from the Arabs for Sci Method, they will throw in 73 gpt. If I get it from the Iroquois for Sci Method, they will give 79 gpt.
My usual approach would be to take all of Arabia's gold since they have the most, then take all of the Iroquois', then try to trade for Replaceable Parts from the Zulu. After that, get the Corporation and all the gold from Japan even if I have to give them 2 techs to do it.
I am certain nobody has any more advanced techs as both the Corp and Rep Parts are recent discoveries.
We have been researching replaceable parts for 3 turns and will have it in 8 more. The Iroquois are currently paying us 196gpt which will expire in 3 turns.
I have been following Bede's trading training SG with interest and have learned that my instinct is often wrong, so I thought I would take this opportunity to ask the experts the likely best way to handle this.
Here is the save if you need to see what the advisor thinks of different options.
), and Lahore is ours again.Here is the tech situation:
We have a monopoly on Scientific Method. Things that are "available":
Arabs: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 17g, 157gpt.
Vikings: Corporation, 2g, 0gpt.
Zulu: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 0g, 2gpt.
Japan: Corporation, 108g, 9gpt.
Iroquois: Corporation, Replaceable Parts, 525g, 109gpt.
All of them except the Vikings also have Communism, but I don't see that as a priority.
The Arabs or the Iroquois will give all their gold for Sci Method, but if I try to include a tech from them, our advisor becomes doubtful. If I ask for replaceable parts from the Arabs for Sci Method, they will throw in 73 gpt. If I get it from the Iroquois for Sci Method, they will give 79 gpt.
My usual approach would be to take all of Arabia's gold since they have the most, then take all of the Iroquois', then try to trade for Replaceable Parts from the Zulu. After that, get the Corporation and all the gold from Japan even if I have to give them 2 techs to do it.
I am certain nobody has any more advanced techs as both the Corp and Rep Parts are recent discoveries.
We have been researching replaceable parts for 3 turns and will have it in 8 more. The Iroquois are currently paying us 196gpt which will expire in 3 turns.
I have been following Bede's trading training SG with interest and have learned that my instinct is often wrong, so I thought I would take this opportunity to ask the experts the likely best way to handle this.
Here is the save if you need to see what the advisor thinks of different options.
Thanks for the plug....RikM is really the trading expert.
But I'll take a look and post tonight.
And here it is:
First thing I would do is pump up the kitty with sales of the obsolete techs. Then move on to the other guys who lack an enabling tech for SciMeth. You should get some more gold and gpt that way. All this is just paving the way for doing the deal for RepParts with cash and gpt rather than SciMeth.
Then look for somebody who has no money and with whom we have a Peace Treaty that needs renegotiating and offer gpt only for RepParts or some combination of cash and credit. The Zulu make a nice prospect. If they won't make a deal throw a little coin their way and move on to the next prospect (victim).
There are a lot of permutations here.
The next thing to consider is that in just over 19turns we can self-research both the Corporation and Atomic Theory. If we win the race to ToE that gives us Electronics for Hoover and another tech towards tanks.
Or we could do a deal for The Corporation and self research Steel or Refining.
You may even be able to put the screws on Hiawatha for the Corporation as our treaty with him is up for negotiation if you are willing to run 100% science at close to deficit. Then when we are close to complete on ToE peddle him SciMeth and get the coin back.
What I am getting at is holding SciMeth close to the vest and using our income to power our way forward. Then using SciMeth and whatever else we can research to recoup our expenditure.
Rifle to infantry upgrades only cost 20g and we have a bunch in the bank and not a lot of rifles. Cannon to artillery cost 80g but we only have 11 of those.
You should have some fun with this, Chaminix
But I'll take a look and post tonight.
And here it is:
First thing I would do is pump up the kitty with sales of the obsolete techs. Then move on to the other guys who lack an enabling tech for SciMeth. You should get some more gold and gpt that way. All this is just paving the way for doing the deal for RepParts with cash and gpt rather than SciMeth.
Then look for somebody who has no money and with whom we have a Peace Treaty that needs renegotiating and offer gpt only for RepParts or some combination of cash and credit. The Zulu make a nice prospect. If they won't make a deal throw a little coin their way and move on to the next prospect (victim).
There are a lot of permutations here.
The next thing to consider is that in just over 19turns we can self-research both the Corporation and Atomic Theory. If we win the race to ToE that gives us Electronics for Hoover and another tech towards tanks.
Or we could do a deal for The Corporation and self research Steel or Refining.
You may even be able to put the screws on Hiawatha for the Corporation as our treaty with him is up for negotiation if you are willing to run 100% science at close to deficit. Then when we are close to complete on ToE peddle him SciMeth and get the coin back.
What I am getting at is holding SciMeth close to the vest and using our income to power our way forward. Then using SciMeth and whatever else we can research to recoup our expenditure.
Rifle to infantry upgrades only cost 20g and we have a bunch in the bank and not a lot of rifles. Cannon to artillery cost 80g but we only have 11 of those.
You should have some fun with this, Chaminix
I have underused renegotiating peace in my own games, so I have a couple questions...
We are weak against (for example) the Iroquois. Is renegiating peace with them still a good idea, or have you ever been in a situation where it cost you something to renegotiate peace?
Our rep is shot so we generally cannot pay gpt for techs. Will this change if we do it as part of a peace deal? If not, I don't think we will have enough cash (even after collecting everyone's loose change) to buy Rep Parts without Sci Method.
I think we will be able to get Theory of Evolution. Moskva is a pretty productive city, we have a 3-4 turn head start, and there is no cascade that will get there first (the Zulu and Japan have just started Universal Suffrage).
We are weak against (for example) the Iroquois. Is renegiating peace with them still a good idea, or have you ever been in a situation where it cost you something to renegotiate peace?
Our rep is shot so we generally cannot pay gpt for techs. Will this change if we do it as part of a peace deal? If not, I don't think we will have enough cash (even after collecting everyone's loose change) to buy Rep Parts without Sci Method.
I think we will be able to get Theory of Evolution. Moskva is a pretty productive city, we have a 3-4 turn head start, and there is no cascade that will get there first (the Zulu and Japan have just started Universal Suffrage).
TimBentley
Deity
It may cost money sometimes, but it's worth it to be able to pay gpt. Yes, it may be slightly exploitive, but the computer is willing to conduct per-turn deals with you regardless of your reputation.
It should work a treat.
And I don't consider it a bit exploitative as the AI does it all the tiem. Only difference is you don't get a chance to back down. If you can't make a deal of some kind it's war.
@Chaminix, any questions on mechanics?
And I don't consider it a bit exploitative as the AI does it all the tiem. Only difference is you don't get a chance to back down. If you can't make a deal of some kind it's war.
@Chaminix, any questions on mechanics?
TimBentley
Deity
Good point.Bede said:
Interesting. It looks like if the AI could research scientific method in less than 10 turns, they would research it before refining. Otherwise, they would research refining first. Hard to tell their researching speed since different civilizations are researching different technologies first.
Bede said:
No, I think I've got it:
Step 1 - Clear out everyone else's gold/gpt with techs other than Sci Method.
Step 2 - Turn Science to 0% to maximize our tradable gpt.
Step 3 - Pick a victim (probably the Zulu). Renegotiate peace and put Rep Parts on their side. See how much gpt it would take. I guess the downside is that if I think the Zulu want too much and move on to someone else, I have lost the ability to renegotiate peace with the Zulu if nobody else has a better deal, right?
Step 4 - Try to trade for the Corporation probably from Vikings or Japan. Renegotiate peace if available to get the best deal. Give gold and/or Rep Parts if absolutely necessary, but not Sci Method. All things being equal, the Vikings would be better since they have less gold so it would be easier to get our gold back with Sci Method in step 5.
Step 5 - Probably get all we can for Sci Method starting with the richest civ. I don't think we have a lot to gain by holding onto this longer, and we do have a lot to lose if someone else completes it before we sell it.
Any comments on our next research project?
Chamnix said:
Bang on on Step 3.
As for next project take whatever path will maximize the return form SciMeth. We have room to self-research at least two before ToE finishes.
Since we don't have coal at home Hoover's will be a big boost to production. Start a pre-build in our second most productive town?
TimBentley
Deity
I can say for certain that we would be the first to research steel or atomic theory.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1650_01.SAV
Pre-Turn: We have 2 extra furs. Sell one to the Arabs for 26 gpt, the other goes to the Iroquois for wines and 7 gpt.
MM Moskva for max gold - cossack still in 1.
MM New Orleans for extra food/gold - cossack still in 1.
MM Pune for extra gold - cossack in 1.
TimBentley did a nice job setting up a city capturing force (10 cossacks + 10 cannons). I think we need some more rifles to walk along with the cannons so I adjust a couple cossack builds to rifles. Rush some units in our less productive cities.
We can run luxuries at 0% without riots.
10% pushes only Konte into WLTKD.
20% also pushes Balkh, Detroit, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Moskva, and New Orleans into WLTKD, but the only one of these cities with significant corruption is Jaipur, and that will not make up for the lost revenue. Therefore keep luxury slider at 0%, and push science to 100%. We are at + 119 gpt.
And away we go.
IBT - 2 Indian cavalry try their luck at Calcutta. Both die, but the second one grants us a leader!
Arabia declared war on the French.
Moskva cossack ->cossack.
New Orleans rifle ->rifle.
Denver cossack->cossack.
Pune cossack->cossack.
Turn 1 (1605) - Ivan the Terrible builds a cossack army.
An Indian Frigate/Caravel drifted near Calcutta. We bomb the Frigate with one Frigate so the Caravel defends - we sink the caravel with another frigate.
MM Moskva for extra shields again - work the mountain. We get 27 spt (cossack in 3) with -1fpt until the pollution is cleared.
IBT - Hyderabad rifleman->galleon.
Turn 2 (1610) - Hurry courthouse in Calcutta.
IBT - Calcutta courthouse ->rifle
Detroit rifle->cossack
Zulu start Universal Suffrage.
Turn 3 (1615) - We ferry 3 rifles and 10 cannons across the sea to outside Lahore. MapStat says we need a garrison of 4 to keep Calcutta from flipping, so we leave 1 rifle and 4 cossacks there (1 extra out of paranoia), and the others (including the army) take the land route and join the rifles and cannons.
Japan has extra coal, but they want 92 gpt for it - we will take India's soon enough.
Science down to 80% - Scientific Method still in 2.
IBT - Indian frigate sinks one of our frigates.
Moskva cossack ->cossack
Turn 4 (1620) - Zululand, Japan, Arabia, and Iroquois all have the corporation. I don't see any reason to try to pick that up yet.
10 cannon shots took 1 hp off a rifleman and destroyed the barracks in Lahore.
Our army takes a beating but conquers Lahore - we pick up 2 slaves. We move 2 rifles into Lahore to defend it, but we are not taking a chance of losing significant troops again.
Science to 70% - Scientific Method in 1.
IBT - An Indian cavalry kills one of our rifles in Lahore.
The Iroquois want an embargo vs. the French. Nothing in it for us, so no.
Finish Scientific Method, start Replaceable Parts.
Our people want the Military Academy.
Gayagaahe courthouse->cossack
Punjab barracks->cossack
Turn 5 (1625) - Bombay's top defender is a musket so I decide to try to attack now instead of waiting for the cannons (cannons didn't seem all that helpful anyway). First cossack - no damage, retreat. Second cossack - takes 1 hp from a vet musket, retreats. Third cossack - takes 1hp from a reg musket, retreats. Fourth cossack - kills regular musket. Fifth cossack - no damage to 3/4 musket, dies. Sixth cossack - kills 3/4 musket. Top defender is now conscript rifle. Bombay is on hills - I don't like my chances, so I do not send any more cossacks this turn. Elite cossack kills redlined Indian cossack (victim of cannon fire) - wins cleanly.
Moskva changed to Theory of Evolution - 22 turns.
Arabia and Zulu both have decent gpt to trade for Sci Method, but I will try to wait for the Iroquois - they are paying us 196 gpt for another 5 turns and are bankrupt now. Once that deal expires, hopefully we can hit all 3 for huge amounts again.
Science back to 100% - Replaceable parts in 11.
Our deal with the Celts (iron for spices) expires. The Celts now have iron, so we can't renew, but they give us both spices and wool for Medicine.
IBT - we kill one Indian cav and lose one cossack to an Indian cav.
France and Iroquois sign peace.
China and Egypt sign peace.
The resistance in Lahore ends.
Chittigong cossack->cossack.
Turn 6 (1630) - cannons march toward Bombay.
We pillage India's horses again.
Injured cossacks retreat to Calcutta to heal.
Lahore hurries a library.
Nobody is offering less than last turn for Sci Method, so hopefully waiting is the right call.
IBT - we lose an elite cossack to an Indian cav - I had thought the vet rifleman covering him would defend.
France and Scandanavia sign peace.
England wants an MPP - I don't think so.
Lahore library ->harbor.
Cincinnate cossack->cossack.
Turn 7 (1635) - Iroquois, Arabia, and Zululand all have Replacable Parts. It looks like the Iroquois discovered it because they now have much cash available.
Sell our Territory Map to America for their 1 gold and their territory map.
Sell our Territory Map to France for their 2 gold and their territory map.
The Celts refuse to part with their 1 gold for our world map, and I refuse to part with an obsolete tech for 1g.
Pick up Englands 33g for Theory of Gravity.
Get 45 g + 12gpt from China for Medicine.
Get the Mongols 32 gold for Theology.
Get 30g + 6gpt from Spain for Medicine.
Iroquois go from doubtful to close on Rep Parts at 1420g.
Arabs take 1476 to go to close
Zulu take 1504.
I dont know how relevant that is, but I decide to go after Hiawatha.
We offer peace straight up doubtful. That didnt work. Give them 1gpt + 2g for peace 22g is much better than losing the 196gpt they are paying us for the next 3 turns and fighting a war we are really not ready for.
The Arabs are strong compared to us the Zulu are average. I will try the Zulu.
Peace straight up with Zulu acceptable. They would even give 1gpt for peace I guess this is as good as it gets. Get Rep Parts from Zulu for 87 gpt and 20 turns of peace and harmony.
In case anyone was wondering, we have no rubber. America has 1 source in their far western territory. Arabs have 2 sources, but 1 needs a harbor before its available. Zulu have the only available source.
The Vikings will sell us Corporation for 1384g or Rep Parts. The Japanese will sell for 1384 also. If we trade Rep Parts, they will give the Corporation, all 108g, and 1 of their 9 gpt.
We are weak compared to Japan, average compared to Scandanavia. Try renegotiating peace with Scandanavia they wont give the Corporation. Give them Rep Parts for the Corporation.
Sell Rep Parts to Japan for 108g + 9 gpt.
Rubber is worth 57 gpt to the Zulu so the Arabs will still pay the most for Sci Method. Sell Sci Method to the Arabs for 17g and 157gpt. Sell Sci Method to the Zulu for rubber and 5g + 29gpt wow the price dropped fast. Sell Sci Method to the Iroquois for 527g and 48gpt.
Thanks to TBs guarantee, we research steel since Atomic Theory is more expensive 11 turns at 100% + 288gpt.
A vet Cossack kills a cav, promotes. Vet coss kills cav, promotes.
Change Detroit to factory rush it. Prebuild for Hoovers next.
IBT India moves a lone longbow near Lahore. I try not to laugh, but fail.
Detroit factory ->Universal Suffrage (prebuild for Hoovers).
Denver infantry->Cossack.
Turn 8 (1640) Our cannons due minimal damage to Bombay.
We lose 2 cossacks, but kill 1 longbow, 3 conscript rifles, 1 musket and a cav Bombay is razed. Boston is now the capital of India.
IBT Yokohama library->Cossack.
Balkh marketplace->infantry.
Turn 9 (1645) kill a few more Indians.
IBT Jaipur Cossack ->galleon.
Zulu start Theory of Evolution.
We lost our saltpeter (deal with Arabia expired).
1650 Upgrade our cannons to artillery.
We capture Kolhapur at the cost of 1 cossack.
India is breaking they have no source of horses anymore and few cavalry remaining. The healing Cossacks in Calcutta should be able to take New Delhi (and coal) next turn. Workers are primed for railroad building. Our saltpeter deal with Arabia has expired. We can wait one more turn and use silk to reduce the price of saltpeter, or just build knights until we take Bengal.
Pre-Turn: We have 2 extra furs. Sell one to the Arabs for 26 gpt, the other goes to the Iroquois for wines and 7 gpt.
MM Moskva for max gold - cossack still in 1.
MM New Orleans for extra food/gold - cossack still in 1.
MM Pune for extra gold - cossack in 1.
TimBentley did a nice job setting up a city capturing force (10 cossacks + 10 cannons). I think we need some more rifles to walk along with the cannons so I adjust a couple cossack builds to rifles. Rush some units in our less productive cities.
We can run luxuries at 0% without riots.
10% pushes only Konte into WLTKD.
20% also pushes Balkh, Detroit, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Moskva, and New Orleans into WLTKD, but the only one of these cities with significant corruption is Jaipur, and that will not make up for the lost revenue. Therefore keep luxury slider at 0%, and push science to 100%. We are at + 119 gpt.
And away we go.
IBT - 2 Indian cavalry try their luck at Calcutta. Both die, but the second one grants us a leader!
Arabia declared war on the French.
Moskva cossack ->cossack.
New Orleans rifle ->rifle.
Denver cossack->cossack.
Pune cossack->cossack.
Turn 1 (1605) - Ivan the Terrible builds a cossack army.
An Indian Frigate/Caravel drifted near Calcutta. We bomb the Frigate with one Frigate so the Caravel defends - we sink the caravel with another frigate.
MM Moskva for extra shields again - work the mountain. We get 27 spt (cossack in 3) with -1fpt until the pollution is cleared.
IBT - Hyderabad rifleman->galleon.
Turn 2 (1610) - Hurry courthouse in Calcutta.
IBT - Calcutta courthouse ->rifle
Detroit rifle->cossack
Zulu start Universal Suffrage.
Turn 3 (1615) - We ferry 3 rifles and 10 cannons across the sea to outside Lahore. MapStat says we need a garrison of 4 to keep Calcutta from flipping, so we leave 1 rifle and 4 cossacks there (1 extra out of paranoia), and the others (including the army) take the land route and join the rifles and cannons.
Japan has extra coal, but they want 92 gpt for it - we will take India's soon enough.
Science down to 80% - Scientific Method still in 2.
IBT - Indian frigate sinks one of our frigates.
Moskva cossack ->cossack
Turn 4 (1620) - Zululand, Japan, Arabia, and Iroquois all have the corporation. I don't see any reason to try to pick that up yet.
10 cannon shots took 1 hp off a rifleman and destroyed the barracks in Lahore.
Our army takes a beating but conquers Lahore - we pick up 2 slaves. We move 2 rifles into Lahore to defend it, but we are not taking a chance of losing significant troops again.
Science to 70% - Scientific Method in 1.
IBT - An Indian cavalry kills one of our rifles in Lahore.
The Iroquois want an embargo vs. the French. Nothing in it for us, so no.
Finish Scientific Method, start Replaceable Parts.
Our people want the Military Academy.
Gayagaahe courthouse->cossack
Punjab barracks->cossack
Turn 5 (1625) - Bombay's top defender is a musket so I decide to try to attack now instead of waiting for the cannons (cannons didn't seem all that helpful anyway). First cossack - no damage, retreat. Second cossack - takes 1 hp from a vet musket, retreats. Third cossack - takes 1hp from a reg musket, retreats. Fourth cossack - kills regular musket. Fifth cossack - no damage to 3/4 musket, dies. Sixth cossack - kills 3/4 musket. Top defender is now conscript rifle. Bombay is on hills - I don't like my chances, so I do not send any more cossacks this turn. Elite cossack kills redlined Indian cossack (victim of cannon fire) - wins cleanly.
Moskva changed to Theory of Evolution - 22 turns.
Arabia and Zulu both have decent gpt to trade for Sci Method, but I will try to wait for the Iroquois - they are paying us 196 gpt for another 5 turns and are bankrupt now. Once that deal expires, hopefully we can hit all 3 for huge amounts again.
Science back to 100% - Replaceable parts in 11.
Our deal with the Celts (iron for spices) expires. The Celts now have iron, so we can't renew, but they give us both spices and wool for Medicine.
IBT - we kill one Indian cav and lose one cossack to an Indian cav.
France and Iroquois sign peace.
China and Egypt sign peace.
The resistance in Lahore ends.
Chittigong cossack->cossack.
Turn 6 (1630) - cannons march toward Bombay.
We pillage India's horses again.
Injured cossacks retreat to Calcutta to heal.
Lahore hurries a library.
Nobody is offering less than last turn for Sci Method, so hopefully waiting is the right call.
IBT - we lose an elite cossack to an Indian cav - I had thought the vet rifleman covering him would defend.
France and Scandanavia sign peace.
England wants an MPP - I don't think so.
Lahore library ->harbor.
Cincinnate cossack->cossack.
Turn 7 (1635) - Iroquois, Arabia, and Zululand all have Replacable Parts. It looks like the Iroquois discovered it because they now have much cash available.
Sell our Territory Map to America for their 1 gold and their territory map.
Sell our Territory Map to France for their 2 gold and their territory map.
The Celts refuse to part with their 1 gold for our world map, and I refuse to part with an obsolete tech for 1g.
Pick up Englands 33g for Theory of Gravity.
Get 45 g + 12gpt from China for Medicine.
Get the Mongols 32 gold for Theology.
Get 30g + 6gpt from Spain for Medicine.
Iroquois go from doubtful to close on Rep Parts at 1420g.
Arabs take 1476 to go to close
Zulu take 1504.
I dont know how relevant that is, but I decide to go after Hiawatha.
We offer peace straight up doubtful. That didnt work. Give them 1gpt + 2g for peace 22g is much better than losing the 196gpt they are paying us for the next 3 turns and fighting a war we are really not ready for.
The Arabs are strong compared to us the Zulu are average. I will try the Zulu.
Peace straight up with Zulu acceptable. They would even give 1gpt for peace I guess this is as good as it gets. Get Rep Parts from Zulu for 87 gpt and 20 turns of peace and harmony.
In case anyone was wondering, we have no rubber. America has 1 source in their far western territory. Arabs have 2 sources, but 1 needs a harbor before its available. Zulu have the only available source.
The Vikings will sell us Corporation for 1384g or Rep Parts. The Japanese will sell for 1384 also. If we trade Rep Parts, they will give the Corporation, all 108g, and 1 of their 9 gpt.
We are weak compared to Japan, average compared to Scandanavia. Try renegotiating peace with Scandanavia they wont give the Corporation. Give them Rep Parts for the Corporation.
Sell Rep Parts to Japan for 108g + 9 gpt.
Rubber is worth 57 gpt to the Zulu so the Arabs will still pay the most for Sci Method. Sell Sci Method to the Arabs for 17g and 157gpt. Sell Sci Method to the Zulu for rubber and 5g + 29gpt wow the price dropped fast. Sell Sci Method to the Iroquois for 527g and 48gpt.
Thanks to TBs guarantee, we research steel since Atomic Theory is more expensive 11 turns at 100% + 288gpt.
A vet Cossack kills a cav, promotes. Vet coss kills cav, promotes.
Change Detroit to factory rush it. Prebuild for Hoovers next.
IBT India moves a lone longbow near Lahore. I try not to laugh, but fail.
Detroit factory ->Universal Suffrage (prebuild for Hoovers).
Denver infantry->Cossack.
Turn 8 (1640) Our cannons due minimal damage to Bombay.
We lose 2 cossacks, but kill 1 longbow, 3 conscript rifles, 1 musket and a cav Bombay is razed. Boston is now the capital of India.
IBT Yokohama library->Cossack.
Balkh marketplace->infantry.
Turn 9 (1645) kill a few more Indians.
IBT Jaipur Cossack ->galleon.
Zulu start Theory of Evolution.
We lost our saltpeter (deal with Arabia expired).
1650 Upgrade our cannons to artillery.
We capture Kolhapur at the cost of 1 cossack.
India is breaking they have no source of horses anymore and few cavalry remaining. The healing Cossacks in Calcutta should be able to take New Delhi (and coal) next turn. Workers are primed for railroad building. Our saltpeter deal with Arabia has expired. We can wait one more turn and use silk to reduce the price of saltpeter, or just build knights until we take Bengal.
MOTH
Emperor
Got it. I will play tomorrow
MOTH
Emperor
IBT Initial Trading:
Arabia - I will wait 2 turns for the peace deal to expire as well and then see about Saltpeter.
Japan - Dyes for Silk + 8gpt is expired. They will give us dyes and gpt for Sci Method. I bring peace up and now I also get all their GPT.
Zulu have coal that the Silk makes more affordable, but I wait to see if we capture our own source.
Spain - I sell Iron for 1 GPT and cash.
Iroquois - Sell Silk for 37GPT.
Other: Switch to a Library in Heiraconpolis (and Shimoneski) as that has a high flip chance. Sapporo is between 10 and 99 culture, so I'll see if we can fight it.
1655: Attack New Delhi - The first 3 cossocks redline doing 1 damage. The Elite attacks - wins - and gets Peter the Great leader!!!!!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
I start shipping him home to hurry Scientific Method (after the next research project completes) then I remember that you can't do that and I form another Army instead. All the workers start railroading.
IBT - Our people want to build the Iron Works - Not now...
1660 - I hold on the Saltpeter deal for now. We can wait and build some knights. Capture Madras with our brand spankin new Army (1 damage).
IBT - India has horses again as they captured Barcelona from Spain. They recapture Kohlapur from us with a Cav (we had an injured Cav defending.) This cuts off our coal but we will get it back. Lots of people know Espionage.
1665 - Recapture Kohlapur after bombarding an Elite Cav and a reg Cav.
IBT - Indian Cavs kill 2 of ours.
1670 - Capture Bengal and Saltpeter. We need borderr expansion before it will cross India's territory. Kill a couple of Indian Cavs.
IBT - Indian Cav kills one of ours. Japan declared war on Iroquois. Bengal Riots - next turn it will starve and we can rush a temple.
1675 - Kill an Indian Cav and Rifle. Investigate Sapporo to see what Culure is doing. They are in Democracy and have a Golden Age. 68 Culture with a temple. We have 15 culture with a Library.
IBT - An Indian Cav attacks one of ours and loses but a second kills ours. Bengal is still resisting but starves 1. At home, cultural borders expand and our Iron colony is absorbed - no more gaps. Japan and Iroquois are marching through our land to get at each other.
1680 - Bombard and attack Ganges - 3 redlined troops. Elite Cav loses. Cav Army wins twice. Vet Cav wins and promotes. This gets us in range of the choke point. I pillage a road and cut India's horses off. MM Moscow - it will starve for 8 turns but cuts one off of ToE.
IBT - Indian Cav comes from nowhere to capture Madras. Indian Cav kills our pillager.
1685 - Adjust sliders for steel in 1 turn - 50% science. Bombard and Kill a couple of Cavs. Recapture Madras.
IBT - Indian Cav kills one of ours and redlines. We discover Steel set Science queue to Electronics and science to 0. Tim was true to his word - we are the only ones with it. A Spanish Conquistador stops by near Ganges (we still have an active MA vs India).
1690 - Kill a Cav. Move units. Check trades again now that we have steel. I hold onto steel 1 more turn to see if refining will show up.
IBT - India attacks with a longbow and loses. India and Spain sign Peace.
1695 - Check trades and the price from Japan dropped, so I sell steel. Iroq give 75 GPT, Communism, Espionage and some cash. Japan's price goes back up with Communism and Espionage gone - 102GPT and 21GPT for furs. Zulu give 66 GPT. Arabia gives Saltpeter (they don't have any cash) Upgrade a couple Knights to Cavs.
Attack Karachi and redline an Army and damage a Cav killing 2 defenders.
IBT - The Japanese and Iroquois battle near Kente - only an Iroq Knight survives.
1700 - Bombard and Capture Atlanta. Kill a unit in Karachi, but need to pull back but Army #2 is adjacent.
ToE due in 4 turns. Flip risks are pretty low. I am starving Ganges - but you might want to rush a worker next to cut down to size 1. We should have our own source of Saltpeter on the IBT due to expansion. We could sell this to be able to build Knights again later. Knights are working there way to the Indian continent - upgrade them in Calcutta or Lahore.
I will edit to include the save and score in a few minutes (once I submit)
Edit: Firaxis score: 697
Jason score: 456
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1700_01.SAV
Arabia - I will wait 2 turns for the peace deal to expire as well and then see about Saltpeter.
Japan - Dyes for Silk + 8gpt is expired. They will give us dyes and gpt for Sci Method. I bring peace up and now I also get all their GPT.
Zulu have coal that the Silk makes more affordable, but I wait to see if we capture our own source.
Spain - I sell Iron for 1 GPT and cash.
Iroquois - Sell Silk for 37GPT.
Other: Switch to a Library in Heiraconpolis (and Shimoneski) as that has a high flip chance. Sapporo is between 10 and 99 culture, so I'll see if we can fight it.
1655: Attack New Delhi - The first 3 cossocks redline doing 1 damage. The Elite attacks - wins - and gets Peter the Great leader!!!!!
I start shipping him home to hurry Scientific Method (after the next research project completes) then I remember that you can't do that and I form another Army instead. All the workers start railroading.IBT - Our people want to build the Iron Works - Not now...
1660 - I hold on the Saltpeter deal for now. We can wait and build some knights. Capture Madras with our brand spankin new Army (1 damage).
IBT - India has horses again as they captured Barcelona from Spain. They recapture Kohlapur from us with a Cav (we had an injured Cav defending.) This cuts off our coal but we will get it back. Lots of people know Espionage.
1665 - Recapture Kohlapur after bombarding an Elite Cav and a reg Cav.
IBT - Indian Cavs kill 2 of ours.
1670 - Capture Bengal and Saltpeter. We need borderr expansion before it will cross India's territory. Kill a couple of Indian Cavs.
IBT - Indian Cav kills one of ours. Japan declared war on Iroquois. Bengal Riots - next turn it will starve and we can rush a temple.
1675 - Kill an Indian Cav and Rifle. Investigate Sapporo to see what Culure is doing. They are in Democracy and have a Golden Age. 68 Culture with a temple. We have 15 culture with a Library.
IBT - An Indian Cav attacks one of ours and loses but a second kills ours. Bengal is still resisting but starves 1. At home, cultural borders expand and our Iron colony is absorbed - no more gaps. Japan and Iroquois are marching through our land to get at each other.
1680 - Bombard and attack Ganges - 3 redlined troops. Elite Cav loses. Cav Army wins twice. Vet Cav wins and promotes. This gets us in range of the choke point. I pillage a road and cut India's horses off. MM Moscow - it will starve for 8 turns but cuts one off of ToE.
IBT - Indian Cav comes from nowhere to capture Madras. Indian Cav kills our pillager.
1685 - Adjust sliders for steel in 1 turn - 50% science. Bombard and Kill a couple of Cavs. Recapture Madras.
IBT - Indian Cav kills one of ours and redlines. We discover Steel set Science queue to Electronics and science to 0. Tim was true to his word - we are the only ones with it. A Spanish Conquistador stops by near Ganges (we still have an active MA vs India).
1690 - Kill a Cav. Move units. Check trades again now that we have steel. I hold onto steel 1 more turn to see if refining will show up.
IBT - India attacks with a longbow and loses. India and Spain sign Peace.
1695 - Check trades and the price from Japan dropped, so I sell steel. Iroq give 75 GPT, Communism, Espionage and some cash. Japan's price goes back up with Communism and Espionage gone - 102GPT and 21GPT for furs. Zulu give 66 GPT. Arabia gives Saltpeter (they don't have any cash) Upgrade a couple Knights to Cavs.
Attack Karachi and redline an Army and damage a Cav killing 2 defenders.
IBT - The Japanese and Iroquois battle near Kente - only an Iroq Knight survives.
1700 - Bombard and Capture Atlanta. Kill a unit in Karachi, but need to pull back but Army #2 is adjacent.
ToE due in 4 turns. Flip risks are pretty low. I am starving Ganges - but you might want to rush a worker next to cut down to size 1. We should have our own source of Saltpeter on the IBT due to expansion. We could sell this to be able to build Knights again later. Knights are working there way to the Indian continent - upgrade them in Calcutta or Lahore.
I will edit to include the save and score in a few minutes (once I submit)
Edit: Firaxis score: 697
Jason score: 456
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1700_01.SAV
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