SGOTM5 - Team MOTH
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
I need a little guidance before I begin...
Summary of status:
We are at war with America and Iroquois. We have an MA with India against America with 1 turn to go - we are paying 17 gpt and we have an RoP along with the MA.
America will give us either Miami and Dallas or Buffalo for peace. Iroquois won't talk to us.
England is at war with Egypt, France, and Celts. England is down to 2 cities and will probably be eliminated soon. All other civs are at peace.
We are selling furs to France for 13 gpt (can be cancelled anytime).
Democracy, military tradition, and economics are techs known by several civs that we don't have.
We have
6 workers
5 slaves
1 warrior
4 spearmen
11 pikemen
1 longbow
16 knights
2 catapults
3 galleys
2 caravels
14 medieval infantry
We are producing:
1 Medieval Infantry
1 Caravel
2 knights
1 longbow
2 pikemen
7 harbors
1 courthouse
2 libraries
1 marketplace
2 temples
Forbidden Palace
We are strong compared to Egypt, America, Celts, England, China, Mongols, India, Spain
We are average compared to France, Iroquois, Japan, Scandanavia, Zulu
We are weak compared to Arabia
I understand that it is poor SG etiquette to make changes to builds already under construction, so I thought I would run a few ideas by the team to see if we could reach a consensus. I think we are doing too much building for a conquest game. If we need cultural expansion, a library is cheaper and more effective than a temple, especially if we do not need the happiness because the city is unlikely to grow beyond 6. It seems in general we should be building almost all military with an occassional improvement instead of improvements in 2/3 of our cities.
We are also desperately short of workers - steam power is not that far away. Of course, we may not have coal right away, but we will have to find some way of acquiring it once we know where it is.
I'm not sure about the Forbidden Palace in Detroit. It's not far enough away from Moskva to give us a true second core. I don't think our palace will change locations - I don't see us disbanding Moskva, and the way leaders work in this game, they will not be able to rush a palace on another continent. I think the better approach is to rush the FP on another continent with a leader instead of building it in Detroit.
I agree with M60 that our assault on America has pretty much run its course (for now). India is clearly next since they have 4 towns on "our" continent, and the most accessible source of saltpeter is beneath Bengal. Somehow our rep has been shot - Scandanavia will give us 12 gpt for horses, but they will not give us a lump sum of 1g for horses. Oddly, England will give us a lump sum for horses. I'm not used to playing with a bad rep - if I break a deal, it is generally only at the very end of a game. My question is, how should we make peace with America? I think we will get more if we make peace while we still have an MA with India, but that will throw away what is left of our rep. Does that matter anymore?
I'll wait for some comments before playing. I apologize if I am asking/saying anything I shouldn't, but this is my first SG, and this team hasn't discussed an awful lot so I want to make sure I understand where the team is heading before continuing.
Summary of status:
We are at war with America and Iroquois. We have an MA with India against America with 1 turn to go - we are paying 17 gpt and we have an RoP along with the MA.
America will give us either Miami and Dallas or Buffalo for peace. Iroquois won't talk to us.
England is at war with Egypt, France, and Celts. England is down to 2 cities and will probably be eliminated soon. All other civs are at peace.
We are selling furs to France for 13 gpt (can be cancelled anytime).
Democracy, military tradition, and economics are techs known by several civs that we don't have.
We have
6 workers
5 slaves
1 warrior
4 spearmen
11 pikemen
1 longbow
16 knights
2 catapults
3 galleys
2 caravels
14 medieval infantry
We are producing:
1 Medieval Infantry
1 Caravel
2 knights
1 longbow
2 pikemen
7 harbors
1 courthouse
2 libraries
1 marketplace
2 temples
Forbidden Palace
We are strong compared to Egypt, America, Celts, England, China, Mongols, India, Spain
We are average compared to France, Iroquois, Japan, Scandanavia, Zulu
We are weak compared to Arabia
I understand that it is poor SG etiquette to make changes to builds already under construction, so I thought I would run a few ideas by the team to see if we could reach a consensus. I think we are doing too much building for a conquest game. If we need cultural expansion, a library is cheaper and more effective than a temple, especially if we do not need the happiness because the city is unlikely to grow beyond 6. It seems in general we should be building almost all military with an occassional improvement instead of improvements in 2/3 of our cities.
We are also desperately short of workers - steam power is not that far away. Of course, we may not have coal right away, but we will have to find some way of acquiring it once we know where it is.
I'm not sure about the Forbidden Palace in Detroit. It's not far enough away from Moskva to give us a true second core. I don't think our palace will change locations - I don't see us disbanding Moskva, and the way leaders work in this game, they will not be able to rush a palace on another continent. I think the better approach is to rush the FP on another continent with a leader instead of building it in Detroit.
I agree with M60 that our assault on America has pretty much run its course (for now). India is clearly next since they have 4 towns on "our" continent, and the most accessible source of saltpeter is beneath Bengal. Somehow our rep has been shot - Scandanavia will give us 12 gpt for horses, but they will not give us a lump sum of 1g for horses. Oddly, England will give us a lump sum for horses. I'm not used to playing with a bad rep - if I break a deal, it is generally only at the very end of a game. My question is, how should we make peace with America? I think we will get more if we make peace while we still have an MA with India, but that will throw away what is left of our rep. Does that matter anymore?
I'll wait for some comments before playing. I apologize if I am asking/saying anything I shouldn't, but this is my first SG, and this team hasn't discussed an awful lot so I want to make sure I understand where the team is heading before continuing.
MOTH
Emperor
My thoughts: I never play at conquest, so I get lost pretty easily. We haven't had much discussion, which is ok as long as we have breaks like this every once in a while to get things straight.
With leaders we cannot rush either the Palace or Forbidden Palace. If we are to get a second core, it will need to be at the expense of Moscow.
As for your direct question: keep what we can of our rep for now. The ROP rep is more critical as we will probably need to use extensive ROP rape on the big continent.
Do we want to do anything about England? If they lose that one city then we can't eliminate them until we get Amphibous troops. Then again, I don't know if we will finish before the modern age. France, Zulu, and Iroq all have at least 1 single tile island.
With leaders we cannot rush either the Palace or Forbidden Palace. If we are to get a second core, it will need to be at the expense of Moscow.
As for your direct question: keep what we can of our rep for now. The ROP rep is more critical as we will probably need to use extensive ROP rape on the big continent.
Do we want to do anything about England? If they lose that one city then we can't eliminate them until we get Amphibous troops. Then again, I don't know if we will finish before the modern age. France, Zulu, and Iroq all have at least 1 single tile island.
Oops - you are right about leaders. I just read they could be disbanded for 250 shields so I was thinking that effectively that could rush the FP, but mad-bax did clarify that that would not work. I guess Detroit is as good a place as any for the FP then.
I don't think we can do anything effective about England. We could gift them horses or iron (once we hook up an extra source), but I can't see us attacking the Celts for them - that would slow us down in our primary war too much. I think this game will almost certainly last until amphibious war anyway, unfortunately. Akwesasne looks like a 1-tile island that is already size 7 and has had 2 cultural expansions - I don't see the Iroquois giving that up.
I don't think we can do anything effective about England. We could gift them horses or iron (once we hook up an extra source), but I can't see us attacking the Celts for them - that would slow us down in our primary war too much. I think this game will almost certainly last until amphibious war anyway, unfortunately. Akwesasne looks like a 1-tile island that is already size 7 and has had 2 cultural expansions - I don't see the Iroquois giving that up.
MOTH
Emperor
The only other possibility is that we help the Scandinavians to capture these 1 tile islands with their Beserks and then we need to beat on the Vikings to get them gifted to us. We could also gift a size 5+ city to England so that it would become the new capitol. Still the Iroqouis are going to be trouble. I guess we need to rush to Amphib war as quickly as we can.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1400_01.SAV
OK, I guess I will just use judgment regarding which builds to change at least I will change builds by several different people instead of just one (including some I probably started myself). That way I can be an equal opportunity offender.
Builds changed:
Abydos from pikeman in 20 to worker in 1 (lost 1 shield). Abydos does not have a barracks, and we could use another worker (or more) on that landmass to connect our cities.
Byblos from harbor in 57 to longbow in 17. We need a harbor for growth, but the city is over 80% corrupt, so a harbor will probably do no more than pay for itself. The longbow will not be completed during my set, so if the next player thinks a harbor is better, feel free to change it back, but if we are not going to build military here anytime soon, then we should sell the barracks.
Cincinnati from harbor in 16 to barracks in 3 (actually should finish in 2 on growth). We dont need the extra food from a harbor unless we build an aqueduct to get over size 6 I think military is more important than using 80 shields on a harbor and 100 on an aqueduct.
El-Armana from harbor in 56 to longbow in 16. Same story as Abydos except we dont have a barracks already here. This can be changed to barracks first, but I think we are better off not paying the maintenance on a city that can only produce a unit every 30-40 turns.
Gayagaahe from harbor in 42 to barracks in 12. Same story as Cincinnati.
Kente from temple in 17 to library in 11. I dont think a temple has any advantages over a library in this city.
Merw from temple in 48 to pikeman in 18.
Shiminoseki from harbor in 63 to longbow in 23. Same as El-Armana.
I hope everyone isnt too offended by these changes. Almost all can be changed back by the next player if you think I have done something terrible.
1360 Move 1 galley into position to bring workers to Goigouen to connect silks. Move others to north to bring troops to India at the appropriate time. I think attacking Washington is hopeless so I bombard the American longbow down to 1 hp and attack with our elite knight to try for a leader win 4/5.
Sell Egypt Printing Press for 28g and their World Map. Cancel furs for 13 gpt to France sell furs to France for 22gpt. Sell banking to England for 30g + 1gpt. Sell Engineering to the Mongols for 12g. Get gems and 2g from the Zulu for physics. Luxuries from 20% to 10%, science 80% to 90%.
MM Moskva for extra gold and still get knight in 1. Hire a taxman in Lahore since it cant grow anymore. Hire a taxman in Jaipur (ditto). MM Balkh to complete library in 1. MM Shiminoseki for extra food as long as we are completely corrupt anyway.
IBT Indians attacked Philadelphia, but fail to capture it. Lots of ships move around. Moskva knight ->worker. Balkh library ->worker. Abydos worker ->worker.
1365 Cancel our MA against America with India. Sign peace with America for Miami and Dallas both start pikemen due in 30.
IBT India builds another town (Pune) on our continent on the ruins near the furs and game forest. America demands our troops leave and saves us from having to make our own way out of her territory one MDI heads for Miami as hoped. It will take some time to get anyone in Dallas. Moskva worker->knight. French start Shakespeares.
1370 MM Moskva for extra shields.
IBT Iroquois land 3 knights next to Cincinnati urp! Lahore flips to India ouch! We had at least 2 MDI in there. On the plus side, I no longer have to worry about moving more defenders there before declaring on India, which is why I was delaying so far. New Orleans marketplace ->knight. Cincinnati barracks->pikeman. French are building Smiths. India captured Philadelphia!
1375 We have nothing to gain by fighting the Iroquois, and Cincinnati is in danger, so I see what Hiawatha wants. He will give us 84g + 5gpt for peace! I jump at it. Of course, now we will have to live with those knights in our territory shadowing Cincinnati, but we will deal with them later. We are now at peace with everyone that clearly will not do, so I call up Abe and ask him how much he will give us if we help him with the Indians. Unfortunately, all he can offer is 3g, but I take it figuring we wont want peace that soon, and this might keep him from negotiating with Gandhi. We sign and declare war on India. Luxuries have to go up to 20% to prevent a couple riots.
There was only one spearman defending Punjab we kill him with our first knight and capture 2 slaves. Punjab starts library. Chitagong is better defended 2 regular muskets on a hill. The first 2 knights retreat, the third kills one musket, and the fourth kills the other musket. Punjab has a couple resisters so we start a worker.
MM Moskva for extra food and gold.
IBT America and India sign peace, lol. Oh, crap. India has cavalry (duh!) Atlanta falls to the cavalry onslaught.
1380 I only see one source of horses in India (near Bombay) so our remaining troops make their way towards it although Im not optimistic that Lahore flip hurt! We raze Indus since that was in a useless location anyway we pick up 2 more slaves. Have to hire a clown in Hyderabad the Indians there arent too happy. The extra cities are adding significant corruption to a couple of our cities of the east end of our continent.
IBT we lose an MDI to a cavalry.
1385 nothing notable.
IBT we lose 2 MDI and 2 catapults to cavs. That is the end of our forces on Indias homeland. Moskva knight->knight. Balkh worker->barracks. Resistance in Chitagong has ended. Chitagong worker-> library. Many civs discover Magnetism we will have Theory of Gravity in 2.
1390 I unload 2 pikes on top of Indias horses. Turn science down to 50% - ToG still in 2.
IBT Japan looks like they might settle where Indus was maybe there is a future resource there? Arabs want to sell us economics for 490g no way. Denver library -> harbor.
1395 I successfully pillage Indias horses. Rush harbor in Goigouen.
IBT - We discover ToG. Set research to Magnetism, but I assume we will trade for that and go to the Industrial Ages. Goigouen finishes harbor (and silks are connected), starts library.
1400 Dacca grew to size 2 so there is a welcoming committee of knights poised to take it next turn. There are knights outside of Pune to take that if it ever grows (a couple more knights may be necessary). Pikemen who pillaged jump back on a ship so we dont lose them to a cavalry counterattack.
I will stop here so we are back on schedule. Most civs got ToG as we got it, but we can still get Magnetism from the Iroquois for ToG plus gold, and we can get Military Tradition from the Zulu. With our third luxury just hooked up (as long as we are getting gems in a trade) Im sure we can turn the luxury slider down and MM lots, but that will all be up to the next player.
OK, I guess I will just use judgment regarding which builds to change at least I will change builds by several different people instead of just one (including some I probably started myself). That way I can be an equal opportunity offender.
Builds changed:
Abydos from pikeman in 20 to worker in 1 (lost 1 shield). Abydos does not have a barracks, and we could use another worker (or more) on that landmass to connect our cities.
Byblos from harbor in 57 to longbow in 17. We need a harbor for growth, but the city is over 80% corrupt, so a harbor will probably do no more than pay for itself. The longbow will not be completed during my set, so if the next player thinks a harbor is better, feel free to change it back, but if we are not going to build military here anytime soon, then we should sell the barracks.
Cincinnati from harbor in 16 to barracks in 3 (actually should finish in 2 on growth). We dont need the extra food from a harbor unless we build an aqueduct to get over size 6 I think military is more important than using 80 shields on a harbor and 100 on an aqueduct.
El-Armana from harbor in 56 to longbow in 16. Same story as Abydos except we dont have a barracks already here. This can be changed to barracks first, but I think we are better off not paying the maintenance on a city that can only produce a unit every 30-40 turns.
Gayagaahe from harbor in 42 to barracks in 12. Same story as Cincinnati.
Kente from temple in 17 to library in 11. I dont think a temple has any advantages over a library in this city.
Merw from temple in 48 to pikeman in 18.
Shiminoseki from harbor in 63 to longbow in 23. Same as El-Armana.
I hope everyone isnt too offended by these changes. Almost all can be changed back by the next player if you think I have done something terrible.
1360 Move 1 galley into position to bring workers to Goigouen to connect silks. Move others to north to bring troops to India at the appropriate time. I think attacking Washington is hopeless so I bombard the American longbow down to 1 hp and attack with our elite knight to try for a leader win 4/5.
Sell Egypt Printing Press for 28g and their World Map. Cancel furs for 13 gpt to France sell furs to France for 22gpt. Sell banking to England for 30g + 1gpt. Sell Engineering to the Mongols for 12g. Get gems and 2g from the Zulu for physics. Luxuries from 20% to 10%, science 80% to 90%.
MM Moskva for extra gold and still get knight in 1. Hire a taxman in Lahore since it cant grow anymore. Hire a taxman in Jaipur (ditto). MM Balkh to complete library in 1. MM Shiminoseki for extra food as long as we are completely corrupt anyway.
IBT Indians attacked Philadelphia, but fail to capture it. Lots of ships move around. Moskva knight ->worker. Balkh library ->worker. Abydos worker ->worker.
1365 Cancel our MA against America with India. Sign peace with America for Miami and Dallas both start pikemen due in 30.
IBT India builds another town (Pune) on our continent on the ruins near the furs and game forest. America demands our troops leave and saves us from having to make our own way out of her territory one MDI heads for Miami as hoped. It will take some time to get anyone in Dallas. Moskva worker->knight. French start Shakespeares.
1370 MM Moskva for extra shields.
IBT Iroquois land 3 knights next to Cincinnati urp! Lahore flips to India ouch! We had at least 2 MDI in there. On the plus side, I no longer have to worry about moving more defenders there before declaring on India, which is why I was delaying so far. New Orleans marketplace ->knight. Cincinnati barracks->pikeman. French are building Smiths. India captured Philadelphia!
1375 We have nothing to gain by fighting the Iroquois, and Cincinnati is in danger, so I see what Hiawatha wants. He will give us 84g + 5gpt for peace! I jump at it. Of course, now we will have to live with those knights in our territory shadowing Cincinnati, but we will deal with them later. We are now at peace with everyone that clearly will not do, so I call up Abe and ask him how much he will give us if we help him with the Indians. Unfortunately, all he can offer is 3g, but I take it figuring we wont want peace that soon, and this might keep him from negotiating with Gandhi. We sign and declare war on India. Luxuries have to go up to 20% to prevent a couple riots.
There was only one spearman defending Punjab we kill him with our first knight and capture 2 slaves. Punjab starts library. Chitagong is better defended 2 regular muskets on a hill. The first 2 knights retreat, the third kills one musket, and the fourth kills the other musket. Punjab has a couple resisters so we start a worker.
MM Moskva for extra food and gold.
IBT America and India sign peace, lol. Oh, crap. India has cavalry (duh!) Atlanta falls to the cavalry onslaught.
1380 I only see one source of horses in India (near Bombay) so our remaining troops make their way towards it although Im not optimistic that Lahore flip hurt! We raze Indus since that was in a useless location anyway we pick up 2 more slaves. Have to hire a clown in Hyderabad the Indians there arent too happy. The extra cities are adding significant corruption to a couple of our cities of the east end of our continent.
IBT we lose an MDI to a cavalry.
1385 nothing notable.
IBT we lose 2 MDI and 2 catapults to cavs. That is the end of our forces on Indias homeland. Moskva knight->knight. Balkh worker->barracks. Resistance in Chitagong has ended. Chitagong worker-> library. Many civs discover Magnetism we will have Theory of Gravity in 2.
1390 I unload 2 pikes on top of Indias horses. Turn science down to 50% - ToG still in 2.
IBT Japan looks like they might settle where Indus was maybe there is a future resource there? Arabs want to sell us economics for 490g no way. Denver library -> harbor.
1395 I successfully pillage Indias horses. Rush harbor in Goigouen.
IBT - We discover ToG. Set research to Magnetism, but I assume we will trade for that and go to the Industrial Ages. Goigouen finishes harbor (and silks are connected), starts library.
1400 Dacca grew to size 2 so there is a welcoming committee of knights poised to take it next turn. There are knights outside of Pune to take that if it ever grows (a couple more knights may be necessary). Pikemen who pillaged jump back on a ship so we dont lose them to a cavalry counterattack.
I will stop here so we are back on schedule. Most civs got ToG as we got it, but we can still get Magnetism from the Iroquois for ToG plus gold, and we can get Military Tradition from the Zulu. With our third luxury just hooked up (as long as we are getting gems in a trade) Im sure we can turn the luxury slider down and MM lots, but that will all be up to the next player.
MOTH
Emperor
Got it, I will try to play this evening.
Goals: trade to get into IA and then sell our free tech for as much as we can. I may even gift a couple civs into the IA if needed just so we can sell our free tech to them a turn or two later. If we get Nationalism then I may hold onto this a bit. How quickly is Arabia or Japan researching?
Tech Research: I think our tech queue should be: Steam>Nationalism>Communism.
The Communism is really the question. Should we revolt to Communism to even out corruption effects?
Goals: trade to get into IA and then sell our free tech for as much as we can. I may even gift a couple civs into the IA if needed just so we can sell our free tech to them a turn or two later. If we get Nationalism then I may hold onto this a bit. How quickly is Arabia or Japan researching?
Tech Research: I think our tech queue should be: Steam>Nationalism>Communism.
The Communism is really the question. Should we revolt to Communism to even out corruption effects?
Even if we get Nationalism, we probably should sell it to everyone on the large continent for maximum gpt. I don't think anyone on the small continent will be able to afford it from them, and everyone on the large continent will have riflemen long before we get there anyway. If we slow down others' research and give ours a kick-start with gpt, and if we can conquer Bengal with its saltpeter and get into our golden age, then I'm hoping we can win this game with tanks (and marines) before anyone gets Mech Infantry.
I agree steam power is our number 1 priority. I usually rush to industrialization next. Regarding Communism, most of our cities seem shield and food poor, but our income seems OK, especially if we get lots of gpt from our free tech. I think we are better off staying in a cash rush government instead of a pop rush. However, if we are going to communism, then we definitely want to cash-rush harbors in several of the cities I switched from harbors before we make the change.
I agree steam power is our number 1 priority. I usually rush to industrialization next. Regarding Communism, most of our cities seem shield and food poor, but our income seems OK, especially if we get lots of gpt from our free tech. I think we are better off staying in a cash rush government instead of a pop rush. However, if we are going to communism, then we definitely want to cash-rush harbors in several of the cities I switched from harbors before we make the change.
MOTH
Emperor
1400 - turn 0 - Trade ToG, WM, and 245G for Magnetism with Iroquois. We get Medicine as our free tech. Trade ToG and Magnets to everyone with techs or money - we net: All optional techs except Free Artistry, 4 gpt, and some spare cash. Shop Medicine to everyone in the IA- Arabia gives us Wool, Wine, WM, 89 GPT, and Free Artistry. France gives us 147G and 74GPT (they had 76 gpt). Iroquois will give us our money back and a MA maybe. I see who else we could declare war on but decide to keep to one war. We have all the gold in the world and can set our tech to 100% with a surplus of 171 GPT for steam in 21 turns. I cash rush a University in Moscow and MM for commerce and we are now at steam in 19.
IBT - India moves workers to horses. Moscow University>Knights. Several are building Newton's. Grand River builds Smith's.
1405 (1) - Look into trades again. We get some more cash. I trade medicine to Japan for 30 GPT even though it locks us in for 20 turns. We also get spices from the celts. I also decide to bring in China and Spain in MAs vs India for an old tech to put some alternate pressure on India. Drop the pikes of near India again. Attack Dacca that now has an Elephant in it - we capture it with just a Knight redlined and we got a slave. Rush some units and a Library.
IBT - Indians capture Miami. Scared away Indian workers. England and France have peace. Arabs build Newtons. Steam in 16 now. Pune grew to size 2. Japanese settle Ise in the inlands of our continent.
1410 (2) - Capture Pune with no losses. Rush some barracks and units. Pull the pikes again.
IBT - Gayagaahe Barracks>Spear. Jaipur Barracks>Pike Chitagong Library>Barracks Cincinnati Pikes. Abydos Worker>Explorer (for pillaging) Kente Library>Barracks
1415 (3) - Rush some more units and barracks. Land the pikes again.
IBT - The Pikes die but take a longbow with them. Yoko Barracks>Worker Shimoneski Barracks>Worker Heiraconpolis Pikes
We are now paying for 3 units.
1420(4) Rush a couple Libraries. Move units towards one of Indias Saltpeter cities.
IBT - Indian Frigate moves near ours. Arabia declares war on France. Moscow Knights Dacca Library>Barracks Pune Library>Barracks.
1425(5) Trade for some more gold and Saltpeter!!! from the Arabs. Saltpeter for Silks, Furs (not suplus yet), and 27 GPT. I call back the Knights to upgrade to Cossacks! Spend all our cash upgrading Cossocks.
IBT - Palace Expands.
1430(6) Send a Galleon with 3 Cossocks and a Musket towards Indian Saltpeter city. More upgrades.
IBT - Indian FRigate barely sinks our Galleon. No more deep trips.
1435(7) Send a Galleon loaded with Cossocks directly to Indian coast. Damn - another Frigate and workers block the shore. :crossesfingers:
IBT - Japans Peace treaty comes back up. Indian Frigate moves away and redlined Frigate moves into City near Galleon with Cossocks. Forbidden Palace in Detroit - starts University (can be vetoed by next player).
1440(8) Check MM with new FP. Land cossocks near Calcutta (in Forest).
IBT - Egypt declares on China. India lands a Cav next to Jaipur on the Mountain.
1445 (9) Cossock kills Indian Cav on Mountain - Golden Age!!!!! Steam drops from 6 to 5 turns. Cossocks vs Calculta showing a regular Musket: 1st wins and redlines. 2nd loses but redlines musket. 3rd wins and promotes and destroys a Frigate in port - 4 resistors - barracks and harbor captured. Steam now 4 turns. Check MM.
IBT - Indian Cav dies attacking our Elite Cossock. Palace Expands.
1450(10) A Cossock dies attacking a Cav. A 2nd Promotes to Elite on the same Cav.
Feel Free to change any of my builds. We currently have a ton of cash and are getting +189GPT. Steam in 3 turns. Cross your fingers for Coal. Next turn we have a FRigate that can start bombing the Indian Horses.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1450_01.SAV
Firaxis 429
Jason 281
IBT - India moves workers to horses. Moscow University>Knights. Several are building Newton's. Grand River builds Smith's.
1405 (1) - Look into trades again. We get some more cash. I trade medicine to Japan for 30 GPT even though it locks us in for 20 turns. We also get spices from the celts. I also decide to bring in China and Spain in MAs vs India for an old tech to put some alternate pressure on India. Drop the pikes of near India again. Attack Dacca that now has an Elephant in it - we capture it with just a Knight redlined and we got a slave. Rush some units and a Library.
IBT - Indians capture Miami. Scared away Indian workers. England and France have peace. Arabs build Newtons. Steam in 16 now. Pune grew to size 2. Japanese settle Ise in the inlands of our continent.
1410 (2) - Capture Pune with no losses. Rush some barracks and units. Pull the pikes again.
IBT - Gayagaahe Barracks>Spear. Jaipur Barracks>Pike Chitagong Library>Barracks Cincinnati Pikes. Abydos Worker>Explorer (for pillaging) Kente Library>Barracks
1415 (3) - Rush some more units and barracks. Land the pikes again.
IBT - The Pikes die but take a longbow with them. Yoko Barracks>Worker Shimoneski Barracks>Worker Heiraconpolis Pikes
We are now paying for 3 units.
1420(4) Rush a couple Libraries. Move units towards one of Indias Saltpeter cities.
IBT - Indian Frigate moves near ours. Arabia declares war on France. Moscow Knights Dacca Library>Barracks Pune Library>Barracks.
1425(5) Trade for some more gold and Saltpeter!!! from the Arabs. Saltpeter for Silks, Furs (not suplus yet), and 27 GPT. I call back the Knights to upgrade to Cossacks! Spend all our cash upgrading Cossocks.
IBT - Palace Expands.
1430(6) Send a Galleon with 3 Cossocks and a Musket towards Indian Saltpeter city. More upgrades.
IBT - Indian FRigate barely sinks our Galleon. No more deep trips.
1435(7) Send a Galleon loaded with Cossocks directly to Indian coast. Damn - another Frigate and workers block the shore. :crossesfingers:
IBT - Japans Peace treaty comes back up. Indian Frigate moves away and redlined Frigate moves into City near Galleon with Cossocks. Forbidden Palace in Detroit - starts University (can be vetoed by next player).
1440(8) Check MM with new FP. Land cossocks near Calcutta (in Forest).
IBT - Egypt declares on China. India lands a Cav next to Jaipur on the Mountain.
1445 (9) Cossock kills Indian Cav on Mountain - Golden Age!!!!! Steam drops from 6 to 5 turns. Cossocks vs Calculta showing a regular Musket: 1st wins and redlines. 2nd loses but redlines musket. 3rd wins and promotes and destroys a Frigate in port - 4 resistors - barracks and harbor captured. Steam now 4 turns. Check MM.
IBT - Indian Cav dies attacking our Elite Cossock. Palace Expands.
1450(10) A Cossock dies attacking a Cav. A 2nd Promotes to Elite on the same Cav.
Feel Free to change any of my builds. We currently have a ton of cash and are getting +189GPT. Steam in 3 turns. Cross your fingers for Coal. Next turn we have a FRigate that can start bombing the Indian Horses.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm5/MOTH_SG005_AD1450_01.SAV
Firaxis 429
Jason 281
MOTH
Emperor
Why do I play to 1am? I don't think I made any huge mistakes and was suprised that the AI found the Galleon way out at sea. 
Current Situation:
I didn't do any turn 10 trades. We have running GPT deals with bunches of nations. I kept being able to trade some of the older techs like Chemistry to some of the other nations for GPT. I figured we've got some going on India before we could face someone else. We've got 400+ gold right now, so we can certainly cash rush some more units.
I think that after we research Steam that we can hold onto it for a while (5 turns). I doubt that any of the AI are running any better than 20 turn research right now (especially with all the GPT we are sucking out of them). We should also turn down the burners and rake in the cash for more rushes of Cossacks (look I spelled it right this time).
I think the number 1 priority should be to dump in every Cossack we can into the Indian mainland. We need to capture a Saltpeter source and we need to secure Coal if its not in our territory already. We are nearly on the doorstep of their capital, so that should be a strong blow against them.
Current Rotation:
Bede - Up now
TimBentley
M60
Chamnix
MOTH - just played
Current Situation:
I didn't do any turn 10 trades. We have running GPT deals with bunches of nations. I kept being able to trade some of the older techs like Chemistry to some of the other nations for GPT. I figured we've got some going on India before we could face someone else. We've got 400+ gold right now, so we can certainly cash rush some more units.
I think that after we research Steam that we can hold onto it for a while (5 turns). I doubt that any of the AI are running any better than 20 turn research right now (especially with all the GPT we are sucking out of them). We should also turn down the burners and rake in the cash for more rushes of Cossacks (look I spelled it right this time).
I think the number 1 priority should be to dump in every Cossack we can into the Indian mainland. We need to capture a Saltpeter source and we need to secure Coal if its not in our territory already. We are nearly on the doorstep of their capital, so that should be a strong blow against them.
Current Rotation:
Bede - Up now
TimBentley
M60
Chamnix
MOTH - just played
MOTH
Emperor
Oh yeah, we have a suplus silk now that we can sell. Next to our silk city is a lake, so we can irrigate the grassland to help that city grow. Our 3rd furs should be coming on line during the IBT. This is not a surplus fur as I traded one of our furs in the Arab Saltpeter deal. Japan has Dyes and are giving us 30GPT for 11 more turns, so there is a possible trade there for more happiness. We also have surplus Iron and Horses, so there might be a couple possible deals there too.
We have 11 turns left on our MA with China and Spain against India, so we can't get peace for a bit anyway.
We have 11 turns left on our MA with China and Spain against India, so we can't get peace for a bit anyway.
Sounds like a great job on the trades.
I couldn't find it in anyone's turnlog, but if I remember correctly, India has Leos. Maybe - take Bengal with its saltpeter and don't build a harbor. Once our saltpeter import trade has expired, build outdated units on our mainland and upgrade them in the former India. One downside is that happiness will be a problem on the Indian subcontinent, but I think we will have to starve down the larger cities if we intend to keep them anyway.
I couldn't find it in anyone's turnlog, but if I remember correctly, India has Leos. Maybe - take Bengal with its saltpeter and don't build a harbor. Once our saltpeter import trade has expired, build outdated units on our mainland and upgrade them in the former India. One downside is that happiness will be a problem on the Indian subcontinent, but I think we will have to starve down the larger cities if we intend to keep them anyway.
MOTH
Emperor
We already have a harbor in Calcutta (came with the city). Once we get Bengal and our Saltpeter deal expires then we should be able to do the resource disconnect trick as I think there is a single tile that connects Bengal to the rest of the continent. I was actually thinking that maybe we should do this trick with Iron as well. We currently have 1 surplus Iron which we might be able to trade(gift) to someone like England. We can then disconnect one of the other Irons and build Horsemen and reconnect the Saltpeter to upgrade to Cossacks. We will need to hook the Iron back up when building railroads.
Bede said:
1450
Peace breaks out all over. Spain signs a Peace Treaty with Gandhi and Egypt and England sign a peace treaty and our wool is lost. Buy Dyes from Japan for Silks and 140g to make up for it.
Vikings finish Shake's Theatre.
1455
Renegotiate a peace deal with Arabia for wool and his treasury in exchange for our horses.
Turn up the lux slider to kick off WLKTD to get rid of waste in the core cities.
1460
Gems deal with Zululand expires. Dial up Abu and get the wool back plus 35g and 15gpt for our horses after threatening war.
Then call up Abe and sell him ToG for 46g and 11gpt
1470
Indian cavalry show up outside Dallas so I trade Abe Medicine for an alliance against the Indians.
1475
Atlanta falls to India. Then Hiawatha comes calling to renew the Peace Treaty.
In 1480 put six cossacks ashore at Jaipur and assault the Indian capitol. Ten cossacks charge the town, one is killed but four muskets die. The nine survivors pull back towards Calcutta.
Trade Hiawatha Steam Power for Nationalism plus 145g and 15gpt. Now we don't need saltpeter for defense, just for Frigates and Cannon. Of course we have no coal and Hiawatha has no extra. The Zulu have one extra connected but one source is in a town outside their primary territory...Shaka has money so I basically give him Steam, and it turns out he has not connected his second source.
In 1500, after building some cannon and healing the Cossacks go after the Indian capitol and burn it to the ground, relieving some of the cultural pressure on Calcutta.
There have been no Indian counterattacks. They have been hammering on Abe. We can invite Isabella to the party for technology if we wish.
A whole bunch of gpt deals expired so our income crashed, we have some trade bait but there is not much money in the world. I set research to max for Industrialization, we are going to need factories to keep production up. I'm also building markets and banks where I can, to be followed by universities as we need the research power and culture.
Take the Cossacks and cannon and burn Madras to the ground, then capture and hold Kohlapur and rush the cultural buildings for border expansion and then a harbor. (Coal)
Now that I've got a better picture of the lay of the land I think the best strategy to follow is to burn inland cities first to reduce cultural pressure, then keep the coastal ones.
Detroit is building the Heroic Epic. We need leaders for armies and to rush expensive things like factories and universities. Keep WLKTD going as long as you can as that has really boosted output in the homeland.
I used our cash after learning Steam to rush Cossacks, muskets and some improvements.
Firaxis score: 485
Jason score: 318
Here it is
Current Rotation:
M60 - up unless Tim is heard from
Chamnix
MOTH
Bede - played
TimBentley - Skipped?
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
I'll give TB 24 hrs to grab it.
Nothing from TB, so I got it. Results tomorrow.
Nothing from TB, so I got it. Results tomorrow.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
The save at 1550AD
Preturn: No need to go this alone. Bring Izzy into the war against Ghandi for a world map.
IBT- Iroand Arabia sign MPP. Americans want an MPP. Not likely. Cleo wants to trade world map. Not at this time. New Orleans cannon>Cossack. Celt spice deal expires.
Turn 1 (1505) Move Cossacks next to Madras.
IBT- Nothing
Turn 2 (1510) Lose a Cossack as we take Madras from 2 reg muskets and a cav. All our other Cossacks are beat up. Move the other Cossacks into Madras, so we have six in garrison that we need to heal and then throw at Kolhapur.
IBT- Quiet, except a lone Indian rifle moves next to Madras.
Turn 3 (1515) Cossacks healing in Madras. Offload a couple more Cossacks in Calcutta.
IBT- Indian Rifle kills defending Cossack in Madras. Then disaster strikes as Madras flips with its 5 cossack defenders inside.
Turn 4 (1520) Cossack attacks Madras and recaptures it. Madras wont flip again as I raze it immediately.
Disconnect an Indian iron source.
IBT- Palace gets a lawn care program.
Turn 5 (1525) Capture Kohlapur with the same 2-musket, one Cav defender. Trade Brennus spices for iron.
IBT- Nothing much
Turn 6 (1530) Quiet.
IBT- Indian cav kills a Cossack. Rifle kills another wounded Cossack. Detroit finishes Epic. Start Cossack.
Turn 7 (1535) Kohlapur cant be held. I evacuate the town and abandon it.
IBT- Indians lose a cav to an elite Cossack. Indutrialization in. Electricity next.
Turn 8 (1540) Moscow changes from Cossack> factory.
IBT-zzz
Turn 9 (1545) Worker actions.
IBT- Iro declare on French, India loses a cav attacking Calcutta. Scandanavia declares on France. Golden Age ends.
Turn 10 (1550) Drop off a cannon at Calcutta.
Post turn- The Madras Flip Fiasco aside, this scenario just isnt much fun for me. Sorry, but its like empire building and warmongering in slow motion. We arent going to get anywhere with this Europe on $5 a Day plan, i.e 6 cossacks and a couple cannons. We need minimum about 25-30 cossacks over there to bring down India. Even if I had burned Madras, our redlined units would have been hunted down before they got to the safety of Calcutta. We should just hold tight onto Calcutta and keep ferrying troops into there until we have a sizable force, then we can do some damage.
Score 539.
Preturn: No need to go this alone. Bring Izzy into the war against Ghandi for a world map.
IBT- Iroand Arabia sign MPP. Americans want an MPP. Not likely. Cleo wants to trade world map. Not at this time. New Orleans cannon>Cossack. Celt spice deal expires.
Turn 1 (1505) Move Cossacks next to Madras.
IBT- Nothing
Turn 2 (1510) Lose a Cossack as we take Madras from 2 reg muskets and a cav. All our other Cossacks are beat up. Move the other Cossacks into Madras, so we have six in garrison that we need to heal and then throw at Kolhapur.
IBT- Quiet, except a lone Indian rifle moves next to Madras.
Turn 3 (1515) Cossacks healing in Madras. Offload a couple more Cossacks in Calcutta.
IBT- Indian Rifle kills defending Cossack in Madras. Then disaster strikes as Madras flips with its 5 cossack defenders inside.
Turn 4 (1520) Cossack attacks Madras and recaptures it. Madras wont flip again as I raze it immediately.
Disconnect an Indian iron source. IBT- Palace gets a lawn care program.
Turn 5 (1525) Capture Kohlapur with the same 2-musket, one Cav defender. Trade Brennus spices for iron.
IBT- Nothing much
Turn 6 (1530) Quiet.
IBT- Indian cav kills a Cossack. Rifle kills another wounded Cossack. Detroit finishes Epic. Start Cossack.
Turn 7 (1535) Kohlapur cant be held. I evacuate the town and abandon it.
IBT- Indians lose a cav to an elite Cossack. Indutrialization in. Electricity next.
Turn 8 (1540) Moscow changes from Cossack> factory.
IBT-zzz
Turn 9 (1545) Worker actions.
IBT- Iro declare on French, India loses a cav attacking Calcutta. Scandanavia declares on France. Golden Age ends.
Turn 10 (1550) Drop off a cannon at Calcutta.
Post turn- The Madras Flip Fiasco aside, this scenario just isnt much fun for me. Sorry, but its like empire building and warmongering in slow motion. We arent going to get anywhere with this Europe on $5 a Day plan, i.e 6 cossacks and a couple cannons. We need minimum about 25-30 cossacks over there to bring down India. Even if I had burned Madras, our redlined units would have been hunted down before they got to the safety of Calcutta. We should just hold tight onto Calcutta and keep ferrying troops into there until we have a sizable force, then we can do some damage.
Score 539.
TimBentley
Deity
Sorry; I was having troubles with the Internet. Hopefully the problems will only last for a day or less now that I'm at college. I can jump in now, if desired. I'll have plenty of time tomorrow, since classes don't start until Tuesday.
Got it - I will play tomorrow.
I wish we'd managed to keep either Madras or Kolhapur around - now we still don't have coal, and it will take some time before we can build a colony there with any confidence that we can defend it.
Edit: Sorry TB, didn't see your post. You can take it since you haven't played in a while.
I wish we'd managed to keep either Madras or Kolhapur around - now we still don't have coal, and it will take some time before we can build a colony there with any confidence that we can defend it.
Edit: Sorry TB, didn't see your post. You can take it since you haven't played in a while.
Here are the notes I started making:
Moskva is at +4 fpt but cannot grow. We could be at +20spt instead of +12 (factory in 7 instead of 11).
We are building a cossack in Dakka without a barracks.
Jaipur is working a mountain instead of coast.
St. Petersburg is working desert instead of a specialist.
Yokohama is working a mountain instead of a specialist.
Denver is building a marketplace at 2 spt with 2 pop.
Hieraconopolis is working desert.
We are researching electricity in 29 turns at +4gpt. A minimum run will put us at +99gpt and only be 38 turns.
We are paying 27 gpt + silks + furs for saltpeter. Consider cancelling this if we can take Bengal quickly.
Arabia and Iroquios will both pay large gpt for Industrialization. Japan will pay considerably less - Japan is probably researching it so we should trade it for all we can before they finish.
Moskva is at +4 fpt but cannot grow. We could be at +20spt instead of +12 (factory in 7 instead of 11).
We are building a cossack in Dakka without a barracks.
Jaipur is working a mountain instead of coast.
St. Petersburg is working desert instead of a specialist.
Yokohama is working a mountain instead of a specialist.
Denver is building a marketplace at 2 spt with 2 pop.
Hieraconopolis is working desert.
We are researching electricity in 29 turns at +4gpt. A minimum run will put us at +99gpt and only be 38 turns.
We are paying 27 gpt + silks + furs for saltpeter. Consider cancelling this if we can take Bengal quickly.
Arabia and Iroquios will both pay large gpt for Industrialization. Japan will pay considerably less - Japan is probably researching it so we should trade it for all we can before they finish.
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