OK, from no maps to maps galore! Good turns Dman, havn't looked at the save yet but everything looks just dandy. Will play later today, maybe during lunch? Have we decided on a prime target? Or just go for the "weakest link" to get a bridgehead?
SGOTM5 - Team Smackster
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
This looks real nice.
Well traded.
My initial thoughts are that we must consider civ strenghts, placing, strat resources and then iron/horses in relation to their UU. Although, it is regent, so I guess we will be cruising pretty soon.
Looking forward to learning some fine warmongering from some of the more experienced players here.
Regarding the hypothetical northern continent, that might be closer, but I guess we will have time to explore in the north before our army is ready to go. Then we will have a better knowledge of our surroundings and will be mroe able to make the right priorities.
JJ
Well traded.
My initial thoughts are that we must consider civ strenghts, placing, strat resources and then iron/horses in relation to their UU. Although, it is regent, so I guess we will be cruising pretty soon.
Looking forward to learning some fine warmongering from some of the more experienced players here.
Regarding the hypothetical northern continent, that might be closer, but I guess we will have time to explore in the north before our army is ready to go. Then we will have a better knowledge of our surroundings and will be mroe able to make the right priorities.
JJ
OK guys, I have now used my lunch to have a look at the save.
We need to figure out where to jump the Palace. My favourite spot would be Mecca!!! Arabia have really understood the RCP concept with 3 cities at RCP5. Hopefully no other placements will mess this up. I cannot see any logical AI placements within that distance in the N or E around Mecca. It is also in a resource dense area with high food potential! And Horses next to Mecca and Iron close enough in two locations. Spices, Incense and Wool nearby too. And both they and neighbouring France have late UUs.
The only drawback is the distance across a still uncharted area. Hopefully there are some land in between for us to use as a staging area.
Any other spots found? Or any other spot you prefer over "my" discovery?
I will play tonight, so any comments within the next 6-7 hours will be appreciated. I am quite sure it is about time we decide on a strategy for our next step, so fire away. Where do we make first landings? Where do we "place" our new Capital? I will hopefully uncover more of the map during my 10 turns so everything should be taken for what it is, a preliminary plan until everything is revealed. Maybe Mecca is as good as a location can get anyway?
We need to figure out where to jump the Palace. My favourite spot would be Mecca!!! Arabia have really understood the RCP concept with 3 cities at RCP5. Hopefully no other placements will mess this up. I cannot see any logical AI placements within that distance in the N or E around Mecca. It is also in a resource dense area with high food potential! And Horses next to Mecca and Iron close enough in two locations. Spices, Incense and Wool nearby too. And both they and neighbouring France have late UUs.
The only drawback is the distance across a still uncharted area. Hopefully there are some land in between for us to use as a staging area.
Any other spots found? Or any other spot you prefer over "my" discovery?
I will play tonight, so any comments within the next 6-7 hours will be appreciated. I am quite sure it is about time we decide on a strategy for our next step, so fire away. Where do we make first landings? Where do we "place" our new Capital? I will hopefully uncover more of the map during my 10 turns so everything should be taken for what it is, a preliminary plan until everything is revealed. Maybe Mecca is as good as a location can get anyway?
Wotan said:OK guys, I have now used my lunch to have a look at the save.
We need to figure out where to jump the Palace. My favourite spot would be Mecca!!! Arabia have really understood the RCP concept with 3 cities at RCP5. Hopefully no other placements will mess this up. I cannot see any logical AI placements within that distance in the N or E around Mecca. It is also in a resource dense area with high food potential! And Horses next to Mecca and Iron close enough in two locations. Spices, Incense and Wool nearby too. And both they and neighbouring France have late UUs.
The only drawback is the distance across a still uncharted area. Hopefully there are some land in between for us to use as a staging area.
Any other spots found? Or any other spot you prefer over "my" discovery?
I would say Mecca is a nice option. Great area for food, will probably give us saltpeter too.
With a later FP in the middle of france we would have a nice base for conquest further down that "arm of land."
Maybe the land that dman mentioned runs from north of our place and over towards arabia. It will be interesting to find out in some turns...when the galley gets up there.
JJ
A final issue to ponder upon before I play my turns. I would really like us to build the Lighthouse. Especially with differentiated naval movement it is a real asset. We could have it in finished during Smacksters turns and by then we would probably have info on the remaining civs. Plus we will be able to cross wo risking any galleys...
The cost is 10 Horsemen/galleys, but wo the support cost of 10 gold and no galleys lost at sea. I say it is worth it.
The cost is 10 Horsemen/galleys, but wo the support cost of 10 gold and no galleys lost at sea. I say it is worth it.
Hmm.. Lighthouse?
I was thinking about it earlier, but will we really need it after we have gotten a beachhead? I mean, wont its advantages for us be restricted to a certain period (in the start)? Even though +1 movement is nice later on too.
Also, will we loose time regarding our invasion force build up if we decide to shoot for the lighthouse?
JJ
I was thinking about it earlier, but will we really need it after we have gotten a beachhead? I mean, wont its advantages for us be restricted to a certain period (in the start)? Even though +1 movement is nice later on too.
Also, will we loose time regarding our invasion force build up if we decide to shoot for the lighthouse?
JJ
Lighthouse gets much better with differential sea move. Because coast costs 3 times as much as open ocean to move through, you want to move in the ocean as much as possible. LIghthouse gives our galleys effective move 7 instead of 3.
Mecca is a good spot, but also it is farthest away. We can conquer China and Zulu much faster than we can make move on Mecca.
On such an easy level as regent will RCP rings play that big of a difference?
lighthose is nice to have but remember it will be gone when we abandon Moscow. (that the city where we propose to build it right?). On the other hand those 10 horsemen/swords that can be build during lighthose should be enough to conquer half of the either china or zulu.
Question is, can we move galley over the southern ocean in one move?
I haven't had a chance to test during my turns, and i don't remember rules of the diff. naval movements. (i can certainly look them up from previous game).
I am playing devil's advocate here, but we really have to think about which way will bring us to the fastest victory. For me the faster we start kicking AIs butts the better without regard to the perfect city placements.
About FP placement. Since we can't use leaders to rush any wonders we won't be able to build FP far from the palace... We will probably have to forget about having 2 cores, but rather go for FP build near the capital.
EDIT: @TomasJJ: I doubt we will need salpenter in this game. Most likely we will shut down any research after chivalry and game will be over.
On such an easy level as regent will RCP rings play that big of a difference?
lighthose is nice to have but remember it will be gone when we abandon Moscow. (that the city where we propose to build it right?). On the other hand those 10 horsemen/swords that can be build during lighthose should be enough to conquer half of the either china or zulu.
Question is, can we move galley over the southern ocean in one move?
I haven't had a chance to test during my turns, and i don't remember rules of the diff. naval movements. (i can certainly look them up from previous game).
I am playing devil's advocate here, but we really have to think about which way will bring us to the fastest victory. For me the faster we start kicking AIs butts the better without regard to the perfect city placements.
About FP placement. Since we can't use leaders to rush any wonders we won't be able to build FP far from the palace... We will probably have to forget about having 2 cores, but rather go for FP build near the capital.
EDIT: @TomasJJ: I doubt we will need salpenter in this game. Most likely we will shut down any research after chivalry and game will be over.
With differentiated naval move distances are deceptive. 7 ocean tiles with 1 sea at each end will be possible to traverse with 2 galleys "ship chaining" for a total of 11 "watery" tiles, so Mecca is actually not that far away. For a palace it is the best location in my opinion. Well worth waiting for as it will outproduce anything in the China/Zulu area. So I guess the distance between our continent and China or Arabia is about the same.dmanakho said:
No can do, needs two galleys chaining to traverse, and we do not want a galley with 2 units onboard sitting in a sea/ocean tile. If anything is to be lost at sea we better make sure it is empty galleys.dmanakho said:
Forgot about the plan to abandon Moscow. I guess the Lighthouse is out then.
We better explore area north of our island ASAP then. May be we should send worker back to road path to the north of our island if we decide to strike north 1st. I guess we have to have another worker at the moment or postpone creating swordsmen for a while. Moscow won't expand for the next 81 turns IIRC. And we have to have a road to the north tip of the island. It will take much longer sending galleys with units from Moscow itself.
So during the Wotan's turn we have to do more exploring.
Should moscow keep pumping units (horses actually)??? That makes sence for me...
EDIT: I was thinking on situation if we decide to keep Moscow. It would be a feasible if we could use leaders to rush wonders... Would be a perfect palace exploit... But it will most likely take unacceptably long time to build FP anywhere on mainland without a leader. I guess there is nothing else left to do but abandon Moscow. We can't have one city only producing units. Good luck with your turns Wotan and i am looking forward to read your report tonight.
So during the Wotan's turn we have to do more exploring.
Should moscow keep pumping units (horses actually)??? That makes sence for me...
EDIT: I was thinking on situation if we decide to keep Moscow. It would be a feasible if we could use leaders to rush wonders... Would be a perfect palace exploit... But it will most likely take unacceptably long time to build FP anywhere on mainland without a leader. I guess there is nothing else left to do but abandon Moscow. We can't have one city only producing units. Good luck with your turns Wotan and i am looking forward to read your report tonight.
Turn log
0 1250BC Pre-flight
Nothing to do, Dman is thorough!
IBT: Barb attack our Archer and dies.
1 1225BC
Moscow builds A Horseman, Galley started.
2 1200BC
Nada
3 1175BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started. Barb.Camp dispersed.
4 1150BC
Nada
5 1125BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started.
6 1100BC
Barb.Camp dispersed. Barb Galley sunk. Sell Writing to China for 25 gold and WM. Sell WM to France and Japan for 25 gold each. And to Arabia for 15 gold.
IBT: Barb attack an Archer and dies.
7 1075BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started.
IBT: Barb.Galley attack our Galley and sinks, our galley lose 1 HP.
8 1050BC
Nada
9 1025BC
Moscow builds Galley, Horseman started. Japan know Polytheism. No rush to get it so I will leave it until Smacksters turns. Barb.Camp dispersed.
IBT: Barb attack a Horseman and we get our first elite!
10 1000BC
Grey border spotted north of our island. The Galley N of Scandinavia will also reach another coast if moving due north next turn. I spotted the light blue tiles when moving into present location for it.
After action report:
Research: 53 beakers to go for CoL. We make 18 bpt now so MMing will probably not save us any since one of those turns will produce one less beaker when MMing Moscow for Horseman build.
Moscow: Building a Horseman every second turn with 16 shields first turn and 14 the second turn. Move a citizen between Fish and forest.
Worker on top of Iron, maybe do Dmans road north instead of colonizing the Iron? I have been building Galleys for crossings and just turned to Horsemen since they move faster than Galleys do due to differentiated move costs and the fact Galleys need to follow the coastline. With the border appearing in the north we might not have needed so many but I built a few extra since I thought we would have to leave them at sea when crossing and that would have cost of a few sunk.
Firaxis: 93
A couple of maps with the two galleys in position to discover new lands!
0 1250BC Pre-flight
Nothing to do, Dman is thorough!
IBT: Barb attack our Archer and dies.
1 1225BC
Moscow builds A Horseman, Galley started.
2 1200BC
Nada
3 1175BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started. Barb.Camp dispersed.
4 1150BC
Nada
5 1125BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started.
6 1100BC
Barb.Camp dispersed. Barb Galley sunk. Sell Writing to China for 25 gold and WM. Sell WM to France and Japan for 25 gold each. And to Arabia for 15 gold.
IBT: Barb attack an Archer and dies.
7 1075BC
Moscow builds Galley, Galley started.
IBT: Barb.Galley attack our Galley and sinks, our galley lose 1 HP.
8 1050BC
Nada
9 1025BC
Moscow builds Galley, Horseman started. Japan know Polytheism. No rush to get it so I will leave it until Smacksters turns. Barb.Camp dispersed.
IBT: Barb attack a Horseman and we get our first elite!
10 1000BC
Grey border spotted north of our island. The Galley N of Scandinavia will also reach another coast if moving due north next turn. I spotted the light blue tiles when moving into present location for it.
After action report:
Research: 53 beakers to go for CoL. We make 18 bpt now so MMing will probably not save us any since one of those turns will produce one less beaker when MMing Moscow for Horseman build.
Moscow: Building a Horseman every second turn with 16 shields first turn and 14 the second turn. Move a citizen between Fish and forest.
Worker on top of Iron, maybe do Dmans road north instead of colonizing the Iron? I have been building Galleys for crossings and just turned to Horsemen since they move faster than Galleys do due to differentiated move costs and the fact Galleys need to follow the coastline. With the border appearing in the north we might not have needed so many but I built a few extra since I thought we would have to leave them at sea when crossing and that would have cost of a few sunk.
Firaxis: 93
A couple of maps with the two galleys in position to discover new lands!
Good turns, we are making progress.
So my guesses about the northern neigbours were right...
And it looks like they are all in reach of our galleys.
First thoughts,
1. establish iron colony
2. moscow to build another worker to continue building the northern highway.
3. Figure out who the northern fella's are, get their maps, but do not sell contacts between northern land and the "Cobra" continent. (i will call it cobra, because i think it ressembles it).
4. send all available galleys up north
5. We don't need more galleys, probably. Start sending troops north, then transport them to the whoever is up north.
6. Figure out if northern continent and cobra continent have a passage between them within a reach of our galley.
7. Adjust possible capital place decision based on new findings.
8. Decide on possible strike of northern continent 1st.
9. Can we use an RoP rape maybe to maximize land we capture during the 1st strike??????
EDIT: I understand Smackster won't be able to play until Friday or even Saturday. That leaves us plenty of time to brain storm the situation. It will also let Tomas get into the game after Smackster's turns.
MjM and TomasJJ your opinions are greatly appeciated. I feel like if it was a beginning of interesting chess game, lots of opportunities, but we have to choose the best one.
So my guesses about the northern neigbours were right...
And it looks like they are all in reach of our galleys.
First thoughts,
1. establish iron colony
2. moscow to build another worker to continue building the northern highway.
3. Figure out who the northern fella's are, get their maps, but do not sell contacts between northern land and the "Cobra" continent. (i will call it cobra, because i think it ressembles it).
4. send all available galleys up north
5. We don't need more galleys, probably. Start sending troops north, then transport them to the whoever is up north.
6. Figure out if northern continent and cobra continent have a passage between them within a reach of our galley.
7. Adjust possible capital place decision based on new findings.
8. Decide on possible strike of northern continent 1st.
9. Can we use an RoP rape maybe to maximize land we capture during the 1st strike??????
EDIT: I understand Smackster won't be able to play until Friday or even Saturday. That leaves us plenty of time to brain storm the situation. It will also let Tomas get into the game after Smackster's turns.
MjM and TomasJJ your opinions are greatly appeciated. I feel like if it was a beginning of interesting chess game, lots of opportunities, but we have to choose the best one.
Not sure we need it? I would opt to go exclusively with Horsemen, Swordmen will be too slow moving north and the road will still be under development when we strike in the north. I guess an option would be to do two palace jumps. A first jump to a city i the north and build FP in a good location there. Then turn on the Arabs and jump the palace to Mecca.dmanakho said:
Yes on all points! With a possible Palace jump first into these lands and then into Arabia. Building FP before second jump.dmanakho said:
Risky if contacts "leak" would prefer we avoid ROP rape.dmanakho said:
Wotan said:
I do agree. Since our SGOTM3 i've been using horses only in my games
I have only concerns about early defense with horses, of course we can rush few spearmen when we need some defense.
Let's wait what other people think and maybe reverse worker back on building the northern highway and postpone with iron colony.
Great idea on double palace jumps and FP... That will be the perfect setup if we can time it well....
MjM
Deity
1. establish iron colony
2. moscow to build another worker to continue building the northern highway.
I agree with this , since I have very limited time all I will say is that I think we should swords instead of horses.
4. send all available galleys up north
5. We don't need more galleys, probably. Start sending troops north, then transport them to the whoever is up north.
6. Figure out if northern continent and cobra continent have a passage between them within a reach of our galley.
7. Adjust possible capital place decision based on new findings.
8. Decide on possible strike of northern continent 1st.
9. Can we use an RoP rape maybe to maximize land we capture during the 1st strike??????
I agree with all of theese.
Sorry I cant say much , really busy.
2. moscow to build another worker to continue building the northern highway.
I agree with this , since I have very limited time all I will say is that I think we should swords instead of horses.
4. send all available galleys up north
5. We don't need more galleys, probably. Start sending troops north, then transport them to the whoever is up north.
6. Figure out if northern continent and cobra continent have a passage between them within a reach of our galley.
7. Adjust possible capital place decision based on new findings.
8. Decide on possible strike of northern continent 1st.
9. Can we use an RoP rape maybe to maximize land we capture during the 1st strike??????
I agree with all of theese.
Sorry I cant say much , really busy.
Moscow is to far from where things will happen to build Swords, besides Horsemen will do the job almost as well but with less casualties.
Another comment on building Worker, please do not do this since it would reduce Moscow to size 8 and then it cannot build Horsemen in two turns as it can on size 9. Not until Moscow is about to be abandoned should be use a few turns to churn out Workers.
Another comment on building Worker, please do not do this since it would reduce Moscow to size 8 and then it cannot build Horsemen in two turns as it can on size 9. Not until Moscow is about to be abandoned should be use a few turns to churn out Workers.
I was about to mention the same fact.. It will be counter-productive to have pop 8 in moscow vs. what we have now...
I was thinking on requirements on abandoning Moscow...
Here are my thoughts.
We shall abandon Moscow ASAP but:
1. We should have at least 3 cities in new land and choose one as a future capital.
(Article explaining mechanics of free palace jump )
2. We should have an access to either horses or iron if not both. (If one or both of the resources are not available, we can build settler as a last Moscow production and use that settler to connect existing resources on our island. Workers for colonies and harbors on both sides will be required).
I was thinking on requirements on abandoning Moscow...
Here are my thoughts.
We shall abandon Moscow ASAP but:
1. We should have at least 3 cities in new land and choose one as a future capital.
(Article explaining mechanics of free palace jump )
2. We should have an access to either horses or iron if not both. (If one or both of the resources are not available, we can build settler as a last Moscow production and use that settler to connect existing resources on our island. Workers for colonies and harbors on both sides will be required).
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- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
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I'm sorry guys, but I have found a bug in the PTW version of the game. Please take a break for a while so that I can get it fixed. I hope I can sort it out quickly.
I really am very sorry for the inconvenience but it appears that I didn't spend enough time playtesting the PTW version since all the big changes were in 1.29f.
I really am very sorry for the inconvenience but it appears that I didn't spend enough time playtesting the PTW version since all the big changes were in 1.29f.
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