SGOTM6 - Xteam

I hope you're having fun, Gator! :p

Several notes on rushing mobile shields (NOTE: these are my own picky thoughts - it's not my turnset, so each to his own as long as there is much building of culture, but after playing ten turns I can't resist the temptation to tell everyone what I've deceived myself into thinking I've learned :crazyeye: ) :
- many towns take 3 turns to grow from size 1 to size 2, but only 2 turns at size 2 or greater, so if there is enough food, we maximize our growth by not rushing the cannon or explorer until the town is big enough to be at size 2 after rushing. Also, if you rush so many shields next turn, you may have trouble rushing many shields the following two turns. (But you'll probably build so much culture next turn that it may not matter.)
- on a related note, we maximize our growth (and hence our future shield production) if we have citizens working every tile of 3 food or greater. So waiting to rush in some towns is beneficial in the long run.
- we're adding at least 25 g in maintenance per turn, and few new towns to add income, so we'll soon be over that average deficit. (Of course, I expect we'll be done in less than 20 turns, too.) I had been waiting to build cannons rather than explorers in towns with 2-turn growth to allow 2 turns of wealth every 4 turns, rather than no income from such towns.

Looks like we're staying on track, culture-wise, :thumbsup: particularly since I believe there are 2 or 3 towns that should be able to complete their universities this turn (look for size-6 towns with 78 or 79 turns left on their university).

Keep up the good work! :)
 
I think maintaining 50+cpt increase is going to be hard unless I have more city locations. I copied the dotmap that Alan and Gyathaar made and will try to continue to add cities. There were 48 cities without temples when I started, I was able to rush over half of them in the preturn and should be able to finish them out next turn.

Do unescorted settlers get treated as galleys in foreign territory? Asked to leave the first turn but not automatically booted. There are some more city spots but I have to go thru French land to get to them and obviously France won't sign an ROP.

EDIT: Crossed with Willow

A lot of the cities a took off wealth should be able to build cannons. I think I was able to get a few more draft cities setup as well. I'm still on a temple pass of the cities and haven't looked at the unis yet. I think you had 14 in production so I'll look at that next. The reason I'm pushing the mobile shields now is so I can transport the bulk of them over to Old France and explode our culture there.

You left me in excellent shape.
 
And don't forget about libraries and cathedrals - I haven't counted, but I'm guessing there are about 60 towns without libraries and 100 without cathedrals. I think that will give us enough culture opportunity to finish in 1390. But more towns can't hurt.

Note that libraries and cathedrals can be rushed in several ways - at size 6 (5 on coast) with one shield in the box (have to start previous turn!), at size 5 (4 on coast) by disbanding 20 movable shields first (no need to start the previous turn), and of course at smaller sizes with more disbanded shields.

I have no idea how settlers are treated by the AI, other than getting threatened the first turn. Sorry.
 
All units without attack and defense values will not be kicked out.. including workers, settlers and scouts .. unless there is a military unit too entering the borders.. then all units are kicked. (Galleys will get kicked out if they carry military units)
 
Would it help if we had a list of all towns in the current save where culture builds are still possible? I can probably build one if it's worth it.
 
@Alan - as of now I don't think I need the list. I used MapStat to find all the 0 culture cities and I can use F5 to view each cities cultural builds, it would be nice if that list could be sorted. I'd like to just start libraries in all cities that need them as a reminder of where to build them, but I don't think we can absorb gpt required for that. I'm having to cycle thru the cities for so many things it's probably easier to just pick an area of the map to focus on instead of a list.

But I might take you up on it tomorrow, depending on how it goes this evening.
 
It'll take me a little time to extract it from the save in a digestible form, so I think I'll start working on it just in case. No point starting it when you decide you'd like it and then delivering too late to make a difference.
 
Well, it wasn't as hard as I thought. We have the following culture build opportunities using the save from the server:

48 temples = 96cpt
106 libraries = 318 cpt
148 cathedrals = 444 cpt

Note that we only have 12 universities.

Total not including universities = 858 cpt. If they all had to be build with new shields that would cost us 21760 shields = 1100 pop points at 100% efficiency. We had 140 pop points per turn last time I did the sums, so that should probably keep us busy for about 10 turns. By then we should be running at over 3K cpt.

The lists of towns needing each improvement are:

48 towns need temple, library, cathedral
This Land Is Your Land
Here Is England
Shimmer
Crow's Rest
Northwest Nowhere
Baa
Yesterday
Water Everywhere
Mountain Pass
Freeze Dried
Flowing Water
Not My Job
Sandy Beach
Cold Comfort
With Love
Ensasewka Mirror
All Mine
Deforestation
Rocky Lake
Part of the Problem
Blue Ice
Death of a Forest
Squeeze 'em in
Tomoyo's Place
Waiting for Electricity
Thirsty Hordes
Suburban Sprawl
Too Late
French Chateau
Beaver Outpost
Thistles
Wine and Elephants
Not Mine Either
Straights
Smith's Haven
Last Stop
Crowding Carthage
Camping Trip
I'm Here
Ironclad Encounters
Mining Camp
Snug
Summer Cottage
Lookout Point
West Orleans
Raisin Plantation
In and Around
Intel

58 towns need library, cathedral
New Agedincum 2
Jonkoping
"My Will"
Eboracum 3
New Entremont 3
Mountain Hideaway
Jungle Paradise
New Lugdunum 3
New Camulodunum 3
New Richborough 3
New Verulamium 3
New Gergovia 3
New Augustodurum 3
New Agedincum 3
New Eboracum 3
New Burdigala 3
New Cataractonium 3
New Lapurdum 3
New Ratae Coritanorum 3
Food From Tundra
Rubies and Diamonds
Erosion
A Tree Falls
Hilltop
Bovine View
No Name
Ivory Fields
Silk and Water
World's Best Venison
Panama Lite
Extra Virgin
Amber Overlook
Dragon's Lair
Snow Angel
Partial
Purple Moo-moo
Innocent Spies
Approaching the Thames
Let's Get Along
Brazen Land Grab
Not So Sandy Beach
Shepherd's View
Quiet Pines
Lonely Point
Tierra del Fuego
Die Dye
Fish
Shadows
On the Rocks
Whale Watch
Over the HIll
End of the Rainbow
Horse Thieves
Cheap Energy
Wool Envy
Wheat Rustlers
Eat Rocks
Microsoft

42 towns need cathedral
Marseilles
Cherbourg
Toyama
Cadiz
Burdigala 2
New Durocortorum
New Rheims
Central Pennsylvania
Southern Exposure
Middle of Nowhere
Lindum 2
Nemausus 2
New Camulodunum 2
Mohacs
Lugdunum 3
Camulodunum 3
Verulamium 3
Gergovia 3
Augustodurum 3
Agedincum 3
Burdigala 3
Cataractonium 3
Lapurdum 3
Ratae Coritanorum 3
Tolosa 3
Lindum 3
Curovernum 3
Glanum 3
Isca 3
Segusio 3
Rutupiae 3
Monguntiacum 3
Glevum 3
Axima 3
Deva 3
Lezoux 3
Noviomagus 3
Arausio 3
Durocortorum 3
New Mohacs 3
Captain's Cabin
Lost in Translation
 
W :eek: W

That was fast and it appears it will be very helpful. Looks like you have the start of a nice 100K utility there.
 
I used the code we run to analyse uploads, hacked to output the city/building list as text. I massaged the list in an Appleworks spreadsheet (like M$ Works). If I ever turned it from a command line interface into a usable product it would probably only run on a Mac. Of course, I "might" be able to make something available on line :hmm:
 
Who built Captain's Cabin? I'm honored :hatsoff: :)
 
Just to give some simple rules of thumb for checking each turn as we play, the above lists contain a total of 300 buildings with a total culture value of 858 cpt, and our food consumption implies that we can complete them within 10 turns.

So we should aim to complete at least 30 of the above buildings per turn, with a target of 90 cpt per turn. That would get us close to 80K and over 3000 cpt at 1350 AD

We'd then hit 100K in 1385 AD with a few more builds. Any additional towns+temples and/or universities that we can build during this period will be a bonus, making 1385 AD more secure.
 
Nice data-mining, Alan! :thumbsup:

I should note that many of our pop points are being turned into cannons and explorers which only get us 5 shields per pop-point, so I doubt we can finish all those builds in 10 turns.

@Cap't: you have Lief to thank for Captain's Cabin. He also chose an incredibly high food area for that town, so it will self-build by pop-rushing and drafting a temple, library, and cathedral in less than 20 turns.
 
I just printed out Alan's list and I'm starting to play again. I'll post a turnlog before hitting enter.
 
I should note that many of our pop points are being turned into cannons and explorers which only get us 5 shields per pop-point, so I doubt we can finish all those builds in 10 turns.
Assume the hand-off save is typical. It has 11 explorers + 14 cannon = 39 pop points for 200 mobile shields. If were were achieving 140 pop points per turn we'd have another 100 pop x 20 shields in drafts or rushes. So 140 pop points would produce 2200 shields, and at that rate we'd have our 300 buildings in 10 turns. We aren't that efficient, I guess, so we'll lose 15% = 3000 shields to wastage and take 12 turns instead of 10?
 
Gyathaar said:
AlanH is definatelly turning into a culture building expert.. :D :lol:
:D Just in time to retire. I don't think I want to see another 100K game for a long while after we get done here and over at Garot01, unless I can think of an easier way to do it.
 
AlanH said:
We aren't that efficient, I guess, so we'll lose 15% = 3000 shields to wastage and take 12 turns instead of 10?

Seems a more reasonable estimate. We'll see if the game allows Gator and Gyathaar and you to pull it off. :)
 
Ready to end the preturn - I still only managed the 26 temples. I ran out of mobile shields before getting to the unis, but I'll get more cpt from the temples by volume. I made sure there were no explorer builds in any size 4 or above city that still needs the basic 3 builds. I also left any city that needs a library on wealth unless it was already building something. I'm at -216gpt.

EDIT: I'm not going to be able to start another turn tonight so I'll post the save and wait for comments. Had a rough day at work and that bug that was going around with this game at the start seems to have found its way back to me.

EOT1300AD
 
Well, since you were so bold as to post the save, here's my critique :D

- you need to pop 40 shields toward the universities in size 6 towns. They are building uni's because they can't grow to size 7 (and hence can't draft). (This includes Alan's Cabin, New Tolosa 2, and Centralia - there may be more but I didn't look carefully.) They should be popped to size 4 and set to one-turn growth. All university-building towns theoretically should be on one-turn growth and at either size 4 or 5 at the end of every turn (except for the last 40 shields, which can be popped from size 4 to 2); universities shouldn't need any help from mobile shields. If this 8-turn method of building universities isn't clear, let me know, and I'll spell it out in more detail.

-if a town has fresh water or an aquaduct and can grow in 3 turns or less at size 6, it should be left to grow and then drafted. At 3-turn growth and drafting, we average 6.666 mobilie shields per turn, but it's impossible to do better than 5 mobile shields per turn building explorers and/or cannons (i.e., 1-turn growth). So for example, Cattaragus, Deva 2, Glevum 2, Matsuyama, and Monguntiacum 2 should be allowed to keep growing. The last 4 especially, as they will get 1-turn growth at size 6 (and 20 shields per turn). I always check the build possibilities to see if aqueduct is on the list, as it's not always obvious a town is on a river. There are some towns with aqueducts that would take too long to get to size 6 (e.g. Ta-Tu), but if the town gets 2 or 3-turn growth, it should grow.

-for happiness problems in size 6 or 7 towns you should build markets if they don't have one. We waste the opportunity to pop/draft anything else in the town (beyond one or two more units) if we do anything else. So for example, in New Monguntiacum, the rifle should be switched to a market and completed (even though the town lacks an aqueduct, it can build 2-turn cannons at size 4-6, which is better than the one or two more explorers it would build for the whole game with no market).

I hope you feel better soon! :(

Keep up the good work. :)
 
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