Shadow Game: Immortal, Fractal Map, Random Leader

[Gressulf]

Hello Everybody!

Long time lurker on the forums, and finally made the effort to create an account.
I have been reading through the latest Shadow Game threads, and I really enjoy this concept.

I master Emperor quite well, and have recently decided to move on to Immortal. Problem for me is that I really love the early game, and lose some "passion" whenever I get close to the BC/AD. I have recently started many games, but usually start over.

The reason I want to start a Shadow Game is because I am interested to see how other people would have made different decisions to me, especially in the early game. So with no further ado, here we go.

Random Leader
Map Type: Fractal
Random Climate and Sealevel
No Huts and No Events

Now let's start the game and see who we got...

Spoiler Who goes there? :

Now that is quite perfect. Just the guy I wanted to play!

Tropical Climate and Medium Sealevel!

And as for the starting location...

Spoiler Saying my prayers! :

Not too shabby at all. Too bad about the Corn not being wet, but I will manage...
I think I want to move to the PH located 1E. I will lose two river tiles for doing this (down from seven to five), and I will lose the Silk, but I am thinking I can gain these with my other cities.

2N of Banana and Corn, I see Coast, so the risk of screwing up Seafood increases with 1E settle, but I will take the risk. Also it looks like the tiles 2W from current Settler location are all forested, thus there are no other potential resources hiding in the fog. The tile 3E1S of current Settler location looks to be Grassland and not forested, so there might be a resource there. I will also gain move Hills by moving 1E.

I was thinking about moving my Scout to the Hill NW of Banana, but I think I will move it to the Hill SE of current Scout position to help out with the Settle.

After moving Scout

Spoiler Did we discover something new? :

Whoopdidoo! Dry Rice...

Let me know what you would do! If you want to play along, please see the Save File attached.
I also have to warn people, I live in the Far East and have very limited amount of time, but I will do my utmost to keep this active.

Thanks alot and I apreciate you all tagging along!

FYI: I use BUG, BULL 4.4 and Blue Marble.

 

[krikav]

1E is the obvious natural move here, and it sure looks like there are more tiles to the north and the west, so that no seafood is ruined, so I would be tempted to move the scout westwards, to see if something spectacular warrants moving back 2W with the settler next turn.

Your move was also ok, I would climb that PH 1E with the settler, and consider settling there. Scout NW->NE next turn I think reveals most usefull info.

If you settle 1E and no new info is found:
Pretty ackward start for poor ragnar, but teching agri secures useful work for a worker first for a long time,
what are you going to farm after the corn?

 

[Fippy]

Hiya

Farming after corn makes sense, with your worker being there already.
I would stay away from dry rice thou, not worth the extra movement, while farming dye for an early commerce tile looks tempting. Working 3 tiles to reach BW faster can be one early goal here.

 

[lymond]

Yep, 1E looks good to settle.

That rice will be eternally thirsty. It is what it is but may augment a city to the E if there is seafood over there somewhere. Otherwise, just another moderate food tile for cap or you could even cottage it.

I think you will not have idle worker turns here assuming AG>BW. 3 good tiles to farm and a mine if need be.

 

[Gressulf]

Hey guys!

Thank you very much for the replies.

krikav; I was thinking along those lines at first with the scout, but I settled on doing SE first.
First tech would be Agriculture for sure, and then I think BW. I will farm Corn, then Banana, but Dye is also a good candidate for a second farm, like Fippy said.
This is actually something I am not too good at, utilizing calendar resources before calendar.

Thing about the rice is that it is not sufficient as the only food source for one city, so I think it is good to get it in the BFC of the Capitol.

Spoiler T1 - Settlement! :

Nidaros has been founded. Settler will go and scout the coast. I tend to enjoy coastal cities, and if this is Isolation, I might want to take advantage of the GLH.

Spoiler T5 - Going Agriculture, no luck on Coast :

Not too much action here. North Coast is void of any Seafood, so no point of rushing to settle the Coast. Although one of the Grass Hills north of Banana would make a decent 2nd city. Currently debating which one...

 

[Gressulf]

Turn 6 and first Border Pop brought with it some pleasant surprises to the South.

Spoiler T6 - Border Pop Bonanza! :

Another farmable Banana, Grassland Cow and some Gems. There is also Jungle there, so might thread carefully.
On the other hand, Scout has uncovered some Grassland Sheep, and ANOTHER Dry Rice, the third one so far....

Turn 10, Not much uncovered West of Capitol.

Spoiler Nothing to see here! :

With these results, I think my second city will be North of Capitol Banana on one of the Grassland Hills.

 

[krikav]

Lots of Fin-lakes which fishing makes possible to work right away, nice semi-jungled starting area. I bet there will be some annoying jungle-regrowth in the future, take care to position units on key squares to protect them.

I see opportunities to grab both AH and BW before economical techs, your choice of second city is reasonable as it shares two food sources and activates a new, but if this is iso, I would consider something that grabs more land inlands, to aid with fogbusting.

I would lean toward mining next, worker path for me would probably be corn->banana->grassland mine->rice, and by then BW might be done.

Don't really get the hatred for dry rice. It's a 4food tile and those are always nice, and the health from a grain (rice/wheat/corn) is always super nice to have when cities start to grow.
Sure, it's no wet corn, but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Fippy]

hatred (or better, hater) sounds like YT
Was just that i would not move my worker there early, for +1 food.

But yup honestly, +4 food tiles are not very good with FIN.
Can be useful for new cities thou.
Without stuff like gold mines i would much rather have farmed dye, 6 yield tile compared to 4.
Always remember, Krikav will settle on gold

 

[Gressulf]

Thank you very much for the responses. It is very much appreciated.
Mining is definitely my next tech, in order to open up some new paths and to get some production going. AFter that I will see if I go AH or BW, but I think BW will go first.

As for which tiles I will farm, I am thinking Corn - Banana - Dye, and then move towards the Rice. Long away from Pottery and some extra commerce from Dye will help out a little bit.
If this is Iso (or Semi-Iso), I might actually hurry to settle a city on the coast and get out a workboat for Scouting. Just too bad there is no Seafood to be seen anywhere.

... And along came T18...

Spoiler Drumroll.......... :

I guess not the worst neighbor one could have! Safe to assume he is somewhere down South, but I have no idea how close. Met him on T18, his Scout, but since ther eis a lot of Jungle, he might not be too far away. Lets go a little bit further.

T20, I see his borders...

Spoiler He is not too far away! :

As for what tiles I am working. Corn finshed farming, so I am working that. Grew to size 2 and now working the Dye while teching towards BW.

Going to grow to size 4. Building Warriors in the process, and then train my first Settler once I hit size 4. Might settle down south at the Cow and Gems, while also including the Rice in order to prevent Churchill to come close.

 

[Gumbolt]

Are you planning to whip settler? The lake tile will help BW arrive much earlier. I can't tell how your capital is doing without a save. That scout is too far away from your capital.

Will BW be in time to whip settler? Otherwise size 3 is probably better? Why size 4?

You need to make use of these lakes. If the city is coastal then you should be getting decent commerce from each.

The gems is covered in jungle so does not immediately really help. The 4 jungle near it will cause some health issues too.

 

[Gressulf]

Gumbolt,

I will attach T20, T25 and T30 saves to this post.
Basically I chose Size 4 because it grew to size 4 exactly at the same time my second warrior was done.

Only reason I want to settle south is to block of Churchill should he think about coming up north.
My number one spot for second city is the Grassland Hill above the Banana.

I am currently not sure if I want to whip Settler, but I am thinking about it for sure.

BTW, here are my choices for City spots. Oh, and I got a nice surprise a little West of the Capitol!

Spoiler City Placements... :

To be honest, 2 could be placed one tile to the West in order to also grab the Rice, but will then lose the ability to share some tiles with the Capitol.

Edit: On second thought though, I think I will whip the Settler with maximum overflow and put the overflow into a worker to help with chopping. Will then chop out another Settler.

 

[Gressulf]

T38...

A new challenger approaches. He also appeared to the South!

Spoiler The one and only... :

 

[Gressulf]

T40...

Spoiler How to proceed...? :

Unsure how I would like to proceed from here. Part of me is screaming for The Wheel because I would need to connect my cities, but another part of me is screaming for Writing in order to get a Library up and running.
Second Worker is done, Upsala is up and running and will get out a Workboat I think... Not the best choice to be honest, but I would want it for further scouting.

Capitol will work on a Barracks while I am chopping to grow a size before putting chops into a Settler.

BTW; I am putting my points on Churchill and not Bismark. Which one of these would be the most valuable target?

 

[Major Tom]

Not easy to tell who’s the most valuable target at this point. Churchill is protective, Bismarck might go on a wonder spam so he might be more juicy.
Both have nationhood as favourite civic so any conquest should be done before the get best buddies and start drafting.

I would have teched wheel, pottery and have some financial cottages up and running. And what about sailing and threemoving galleys + foreign traderoutes.

 

[sampsa]

Edit: On second thought though, I think I will whip the Settler with maximum overflow and put the overflow into a worker to help with chopping. Will then chop out another Settler.

Delaying 2nd city is nearly always a mistake, so I investigated this a bit and the result is interesting to me at least.

The benefit from max overflow compared to whipping instantly is 2T working of 33 and 23 (since building a settler, food transforms into hammers), meaning extra 212. Founding the city 2T earlier, taking corn from cap (cap on worker, working dye+nana) wins 211pt from new city center and working dye wins 13pt, making the net gain 628. 2nd unconnected city costs 2pt, making it -4. So, which one is better, 212 or 628-4 (reduced into 4 vs 6-4)? It's actually way closer than I imagined, as whipped tiles are pretty strong. I'd still favor winning food, as I'd value it at least twice as valuable as / when start is not -starved. Whether those extra in capital lead to 1T faster worker (=win a worker turn) might even tip the scales.

Edit: another option would be to not whip, which feels a legitimate option as leader is not spiritual so we lose 1T and we are working good tiles. We have time to get one chop in. I think this leads to only 3T slower 2nd city compared to whipping asap, so this feels like the best option. Delaying 2nd city seems good in this case. However, maybe growing to size 4 was a (small) mistake then?

 

[sampsa]

BTW; I am putting my points on Churchill and not Bismark. Which one of these would be the most valuable target?

Both are pretty worthless trading partners, as they are hard to make friendly but I'd pick Churchill. I'd go for wheel, writing feels way too early as you are far from ready to build a library. Building the mine was a mistake, chopping first is way way better. You haven't worked the mine at all, but ok, soon it will be worth something.

 

[Gumbolt]

I probably would of valued chopping more once you had BW. I think you need a warrior instead of barracks.

For now I would be growing while double chopping into a settler. 40/80. Could even switch to settler sooner. Grow to size 3. Switch production so the chops go to settler.

Really not sure about your city no 2 marker. The capital has limited tiles to cottage. Overall you want to abuse your financial trait. Settling next to food is always wise.
Settling between corn and sheep could be interesting. Albeit not coastal. 1S of sheep gives you copper. Settling on grassland costs you 1 food compared to plains in terms of growth later.

If you can get a coastal city with lighthouse those lakes are 3f3c tiles. 1E of the horse would allow 4x 3f3c tiles. Sweet. HA rush later might be nice.

Think where your commerce tiles are coming from. Chop grassland forest first.

Explore more north with your warrior too.

 

[Gressulf]

Everyone,

Thank you very much for your replies. Many good pointers and I am learning something useful, which is great! Thank you so much again.

Major Tom; Indeed on Bismarck being the most valuable target first. Fingers crossed he will build some wonders for me! I also think that the tech route you presented is the one I will take; Wheel - Pottery - Sailing, and then most likely Writing...

sampsa; See this is where I fail a little bit, I do not really consider these things. In my defence on the Size 4 thing, the growth to size 4 coincided with the completion of my second Warrior, so I thought why not? Also if I am to whip, I'd rather do a two pop whip instead of a one pop. As for the mine, I see you point. Maybe it should've not been made that early, but what's done is done! I guess I though the would be good to have to do some builds like Warriors, but I guess I can work the Forested PH for those same three .

Gumbolt; I did play some more, and saved, but I will go back to the T40 save. Plan now is to chop out another Settler, only letting the chops go into the Settler and build a Barracks. As Aggressive leader, I really enjoy having the Barracks up. That extra Promotion is really helpful vs Barbs (IMO). For City 2, like I said, I am thinking about settling it on the Plains tile, so that I can get the Rice too. I think that is the best option. The Copper will be in Cultural Borders almost at the same time the City is founded due to Border Pop from Capitol. As for City 4, the Horse was not discovered when I placed the marker. I think 1E of Horse is good (will actually get FIVE 33 tiles!). It will also make it possible for my naval units to enter the lakes and perhaps exit on the other side.

Will play some more turns and update!

 

[Gressulf]

T40...

Below will be my chopping patterns...

Spoiler Chopping :

1C1 and 1C2 meaning that Worker 1 will chop these two tiles.
2C1 and 2C2 meaning that Worker 2 will chop these two tiles. 2C2 is important as it will let the worker be close to City 2 when it is founded and also clear a path for the Settler.

In between the Chops, I will work a Barracks. Corn will be worked by Upsala, not the Capitol on the turns where I build Barracks, and by Capitol when I build Settler. This will net Capitol 49 T1, and 51 on T2 when building the Settler, letting it being finished in two build turns.

T48...

Spoiler Settler on his way! :

The Wheel finished as well and Worker has put 1 turn into a road where the Settler is currently placed. As you can see below, Capitol will have a Border Pop in 4 turns. The worker in the South will chop the forest, and then move to work the Copper. The worker at the same tile as the Settler will do another 1 turn road NW and then move onto Sheep when City is founded.

I am working the Mine in order to get the Barracks online. Will be nice to have when I get Axes online (I believe).

Upsala will build either a Settler or a Worker. I am leaning towards a worker to start Cottaging the Grassland tiles that I just chopped...

T50...

Haithabu has been founded. Worker will improve the Sheep, other worker will finish Chop and put it into a Settler for the Capitol. Will try to get out a Setller ASAP for either City 3 or 4, but might have to fend of the Barb moving in from the South next to the '4' Sign. Haithabu and Upsala will both build Workers, as two are a bit low. I think I would need to double that worker count.

Spoiler Haithabu founded! :

I scouted further North and found some good resources. I have Fish! Workboat is also sent up here, so maybe get another WB out to scout South!

Spoiler North Scouting Party :

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Gressulf]

T60...

I connected Copper, and had some Barb trouble, so I grew Capitol to size 4 and whipped the Settler, putting the overflow into the Axeman. He is now on his way to Haithabu to clean up.
The whipped Settler is going down to settle spot 3. I finished Pottery, and I am now Cottaging some tiles. In addition I am connecting my cities by roads.
As for tech, I am undecided on whether to go Writing or Sailing, but I am leaning towards Writing to be honest.

Spoiler Expanding the Empire :

North of my current Empire we have some good spots for Cities. We also have Ivory, which is nice. That is the end of the landmass, so I should have this to myself, unless anyone sneak a Galley through.



I want to build another WB and send it soutward towards Churchill. In this case, maybe Writing is a good choice if they have not teched it yet.

Churchill is starting to settle westward in the southern area, so I should grab the Horse city in due time in order to block him off...

Spoiler Churchill Expansions :

I am also thinking about settling a city 1S of Copper to pick up some tiles that I cannot work with the current settling plan and also to help with cottages. Please let me know what you think about this idea.

Appreciate all tips and comments.