Should a person be proud of their ethnicity?

[Lexicus]

Got to tenderize the ground for more poppies.

Where have all the graveyards gone? long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone? long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone? gone to flowers everyone...when will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That's what I was taught in school, but the older I get, the more it seems to be used to make sure everyone's on-board when we go tumbling blindly into the next war.

I don't know if the world has change or I'm just seeing it more clearly. I expect both.

Got to tenderize the ground for more poppies.

I don't know what kind of remembrance ceremonies go on in Europe, but the ones we have here are ones of remembering the past, vowing never to forget, and hoping for peace. Of course the way the world is nowadays, that's not working out too well.

Even so, this is an abbreviated broadcast of the 2015 Remembrance Day Ceremonies from Parliament Hill (the actual broadcast is longer, with various reporters talking to people beforehand - civilians and veterans who express what November 11 means to them). The newest part of the ceremony started spontaneously some years back - someone decided to leave their poppy on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and it's become customary for the public to do that now. It's not a scripted part of the proceedings, but something that's become part of it - a way for people to do the equivalent of laying their own wreaths and pay their respects to the veterans.

I don't see any warmongering in this.

 

[Hrothbern]

I don't know what kind of remembrance ceremonies go on in Europe,

Only a very few official ceremonies, the ones with the King, are out of balance towards the military
The thousands of other ceremonies at the same time everywhere are dominated by the civil society, the language and topics understandable for children. The topics having to do with the brutal Nazi occupation at eye witness level.

I think it makes a hell of a difference (literally !), whether your country was occupied or not.
If not, it is about soldiers that died and some abstract concept of peace.

 

[Kyriakos]

We don't have any official ww1 holiday/remembrance day. I think that is mostly a UK/France thing in Europe. We have a major holiday for WW2, commemorating the bravery of the greek soldiers fighting the invading Italy and pushing it back.

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't know what kind of remembrance ceremonies go on in Europe, but the ones we have here are ones of remembering the past, vowing never to forget, and hoping for peace. Of course the way the world is nowadays, that's not working out too well.

Even so, this is an abbreviated broadcast of the 2015 Remembrance Day Ceremonies from Parliament Hill (the actual broadcast is longer, with various reporters talking to people beforehand - civilians and veterans who express what November 11 means to them). The newest part of the ceremony started spontaneously some years back - someone decided to leave their poppy on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and it's become customary for the public to do that now. It's not a scripted part of the proceedings, but something that's become part of it - a way for people to do the equivalent of laying their own wreaths and pay their respects to the veterans.

I don't see any warmongering in this.

Canada's doing better than Britain, then. Over here, it's shifted from "never again" to a lot of chest-thumping about supporting the troops and the nobility of war and not asking any difficult, unpatriotic questions. It's become an opportunity for arms manufacturers to show off their wares and for the hard right press to denounce opposition leaders as traitors and communists. It has precious little to do with remembrance.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Canada's doing better than Britain, then. Over here, it's shifted from "never again" to a lot of chest-thumping about supporting the troops and the nobility of war and not asking any difficult, unpatriotic questions. It's become an opportunity for arms manufacturers to show off their wares and for the hard right press to denounce opposition leaders as traitors and communists. It has precious little to do with remembrance.

Did you watch the video? It shows a dignified ceremony in 3 languages, and it's multifaith. The children singing in the background as the ceremony of wreath-laying proceeds is the Ottawa Children's Choir. The shots of the crowd show people from babies and toddlers up to 90-somethings.

I've been watching this coverage every year for so long that back when I started, there were still WWI vets who attended and marched in the parade past the reviewing stand. There aren't any now; they've all died.

 

[Arwon]

Canada's doing better than Britain, then. Over here, it's shifted from "never again" to a lot of chest-thumping about supporting the troops and the nobility of war and not asking any difficult, unpatriotic questions. It's become an opportunity for arms manufacturers to show off their wares and for the hard right press to denounce opposition leaders as traitors and communists. It has precious little to do with remembrance.

The patriotic rubbish is *mostly* quarantined to ANZAC Day here. Serves as sort of an escape valve for stupid.

 

[El_Machinae]

To be honest, I do feel a bit of sympathy for those that 'political correctness' is preventing pride in their ancestry. My grandfather faked a medical exam in order to be admitted into the army to fight Nazis, where he had an excellent career. And I'm just outright allowed to be proud of that.

Change some of that story, and I'd not be allowed to. How terrible would that be? Sure, if he'd boned-spurred his way into a deferment, then I'd not wanna feel pride. If he'd faked his way into the SS, again, shame. But 'fooling the doctor into letting you join?', that's pretty impressive. And doing so out of loyalty, or a sense of duty? Again, impressive.

But, I'd not be allowed to brag. I feel sympathy about that.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

To be honest, I do feel a bit of sympathy for those that 'political correctness' is preventing pride in their ancestry. My grandfather faked a medical exam in order to be admitted into the army to fight Nazis, where he had an excellent career. And I'm just outright allowed to be proud of that.

Change some of that story, and I'd not be allowed to. How terrible would that be? Sure, if he'd boned-spurred his way into a deferment, then I'd not wanna feel pride. If he'd faked his way into the SS, again, shame. But 'fooling the doctor into letting you join?', that's pretty impressive. And doing so out of loyalty, or a sense of duty? Again, impressive.

But, I'd not be allowed to brag. I feel sympathy about that.

So which is it - that you're proud of him for cheating his way in, or not? There are plenty of instances of teenagers lying about their ages so they could enlist either in WWI or WWII. Are you saying we should applaud their courage or tsk-tsk at their dishonesty? It's possible to do both, with the mindset that it's too bad the circumstances warranted them feeling the necessity of having to lie to get in.

 

[Ajidica]

To be honest, I do feel a bit of sympathy for those that 'political correctness' is preventing pride in their ancestry. My grandfather faked a medical exam in order to be admitted into the army to fight Nazis, where he had an excellent career. And I'm just outright allowed to be proud of that.

Change some of that story, and I'd not be allowed to. How terrible would that be? Sure, if he'd boned-spurred his way into a deferment, then I'd not wanna feel pride. If he'd faked his way into the SS, again, shame. But 'fooling the doctor into letting you join?', that's pretty impressive. And doing so out of loyalty, or a sense of duty? Again, impressive.

But, I'd not be allowed to brag. I feel sympathy about that.

The thing is, what does "pride in their ancestry" mean?
Perhaps I'm seriously mistaken, but no serious person has tried to put a stop to the yearly St. Patricks Day marches, or the regional Oktoberfests, or whatever commemorative stuff Polish people do. Barring any substantial displays of racist or bigoted activities at those events, I'd oppose any attempt to try and shut them down.

 

[Traitorfish]

As far as I can tell, the only people who are struggling to celebrate their heritage in PC-friendly ways who refuse to imagine their ancestry in a way which isn't lashed to the mast of white supremacy.

Nobody actually cares that you're pleased as punch to be a trueborn son of the South, it's the fact you keep waving that poxy goddam flag that gets people's back up.

 

[Leonel]

I honestly don't think you should be proud of your ethnicity for the simple fact that it's not something within your realm of control. To me it's like saying I'm proud that I'm tall or that I have black hair, it's not like I really gutted it out in high school to get that extra 6 inches.

I will say that it could be legit to be proud of your culture because despite you being born into it, you ultimately have a choice of being a part of it or not.

 

[Traitorfish]

That frames ethnicity as something that just happens to people, a passive-quality, like, well, as you say, height or hair-colour. In practice, ethnicity is something that people participate in, with whatever degree of conscious choice. Expressing pride in your heritage is expressing pride in the collective activity of culture-making, pride in a group with which you identify for your collective work. The group may be imagined, but any group of more than a few dozen people is largely a work of fiction.

 

[Kyriakos]

That frames ethnicity as something that just happens to people, a passive-quality, like, well, as you say, height or hair-colour. In practice, ethnicity is something that people participate in, with whatever degree of conscious choice. Expressing pride in your heritage is expressing pride in the collective activity of culture-making, pride in a group with which you identify for your collective work. The group may be imagined, but any group of more than a few dozen people is largely a work of fiction.

 

[caketastydelish]

Your ethnicity is something to be neither ashamed nor proud of. Something you were born with is not something you earned. It's interesting to learn about your roots and heritage. But until Assassin's Creed becomes real, I wouldn't get too worried about it.

You can convince a hot hipster chick to sleep with you with your "authentic" dish from your ethnic heritage. Other than little things like that, it doesn't really matter. If you're American (or really almost anywhere from the north or south America) being proud of your 'ethnic heritage' is especially silly. Because in this case we're usually talking about a blend of various nationalities, and in many cases different ethnic categories entirely. There's also the fact that if you were born and raised in America, you are not really 'Irish' the same way someone in Ireland, with Irish roots, is. Boston is not Ireland.

edit: From a scientific point of view, we could be "proud of Haplogroups", since that's a real thing, unlike ethnicity. But "I'm proud that my mix of haplogroup heritages are...." makes you come across as a snob, even though you are correct.

 

[Traitorfish]

Haplogroups aren't real either. Genes are real, and we identify individual carriers as belonging to an abstract "group", but the groups themselves are a work of imagination.

There's no "real" identity, no matter how far down we dig. There's just bundles of protein. All identities are human inventions, including the identity of "human".