Should Egypt Bother with Dams?

[steveg700]

One thing about Egypt to not sell short is its immunity to flood damage. Of course, it means that there's a reduced incentive to build dams, because they mean reduced yields from floods. Not only that, but they take up floodplain tile. But after unlocking hydro dams, the question is back on the table. Should I try building dams for some renewable power, not to mention a spiffing little adjacency bonus for IZ's? Or, push the envelope on CO2 and hope it causes more of those wonderful floods?

(btw, before anyone asks, no I'm not building many sphinxes this game, since I'm going after science)

 

[Ziad]

All about opportunity cost.

 

[kb27787]

Short answer no.
Sphinxes on godly yield boosted tiles are awesome if you get lucky early game. Reducing the fertility by half is terrible.

Game should be over long before global warming is an issue (and due to your spawn bias unlikely that you would have significant coastal regions) actually power is not that useful to begin with (it's the coal plants that are somewhat OK)

Just spam them sphinxes and go for culture/religion victory.

 

[Furycrab]

Flood generally speaking are bad, and any bonus yields typically don't offset the initial cost unless the game goes fairly long.........

That said... If you get a Major flood after World Congress is available and Trigger a Request Aid competition (which the AI seems eager to vote in favor...) You can get an absurd amount of gold to snowball into almost any win condition. Not a fan of Early Dams because of that. <.<

 

[Sostratus]

I think if you use an IZ heavy strategy (aqueducts+dams) then floodplains become prime real estate; often needing to support 2-3 AQ, 2-3 IZ, 1-2 dams.
The big benefit of floodplain food can be offset in the industrial+ by farming nearby flat land. It doesn't take much to get huge replaceable parts bonuses.
If that's not really possible, meaning the cities would starve, then it becomes a bit questionable. But Remember that an IZ's building gives at least 9, and under craftsmen+coal plants, every AQ and Dam is worth effectively 8 each. So you are essentially exchanging high food for high production tiles, which many players find worthwhile.

actually power is not that useful to begin with

I find that the best use of hydro plants is not replacing fossil fuel power but adding to it - I can only burn a limited amount of coal, so every hydro plant is another research lab and broadcast tower. That's a real benefit!

 

[Archon_Wing]

The amenities and housing are nice, and also if you care about IZs, you'll pair them with dams and aqueducts.

You may also want that hydroelectric dam.

Anyhow, I say yes, because I usually build dams for those reasons and not to prevent flood. Basically they've replaced neighborhoods for me.

 

[Victoria]

My perspective is

One dam now allows me to get to a pop15 city easier for the urbanisation inspiration as it is worth a little over 400 culture and keeps Pingala busy. A big point for me.
One dam now allows me to make a high production city better. A small point for me.

Otherwise I find them fiddly, annoying, expensive and restrictive

As Egypt starting in 1/1 floodplains that often do not flood for a long time has stopped me playing the civ.

 

[Pietato]

Flood generally speaking are bad, and any bonus yields typically don't offset the initial cost unless the game goes fairly long.........

That said... If you get a Major flood after World Congress is available and Trigger a Request Aid competition (which the AI seems eager to vote in favor...) You can get an absurd amount of gold to snowball into almost any win condition. Not a fan of Early Dams because of that. <.<

Egypt is immune to flood damage.

 

[kb27787]

I think if you use an IZ heavy strategy (aqueducts+dams) then floodplains become prime real estate; often needing to support 2-3 AQ, 2-3 IZ, 1-2 dams.
The big benefit of floodplain food can be offset in the industrial+ by farming nearby flat land. It doesn't take much to get huge replaceable parts bonuses.
If that's not really possible, meaning the cities would starve, then it becomes a bit questionable. But Remember that an IZ's building gives at least 9, and under craftsmen+coal plants, every AQ and Dam is worth effectively 8 each. So you are essentially exchanging high food for high production tiles, which many players find worthwhile.


I find that the best use of hydro plants is not replacing fossil fuel power but adding to it - I can only burn a limited amount of coal, so every hydro plant is another research lab and broadcast tower. That's a real benefit!

Floods can also give bonus yields in terms of production too you know... Fertility is not limited to food.

Why is there a limit to coal? Burn on! Let the coastal bias civs deal with the rising waters. Hydro dams are too darned expensive and come at a very leafy tech (unless your plan was to go all out naval combat, in which case I would ask why you are playing as Egypt in the first place) and more importantly they cannot provide AOE power like IZ plants do, the power goes only to the city that owns it.

 

[UWHabs]

Since you can ignore the flood damage immunity, it really comes down to whether the housing+power is better than the tile yields. So in the above case, it's basically:
No dam: 9 food, 1 production (given farm adjacencies)
With dam: 3 housing, 1 amenity, 2 production (adjacency), plus power. However you have the cost of the dam plus the hydro plant.

Which is better really depends on the city. Most likely, you'll get better yields by building a neighbourhood plus shopping mall on a worse yield/higher appeal tile, and then finding other sources of power. But that being said, your city is already at 9/10 housing with a huge food surplus, so the dam may still be more useful for the city.

 

[Sostratus]

Floods can also give bonus yields in terms of production too you know... Fertility is not limited to food.

Oh, I'm well aware - but even looking at OP's screen shot, they always end up as high food tiles. If you could put outback stations on floodplains (shakes fist) then maybe. In OP's screenshot there a commercial CS in the way, but that river could support at least an aqueduct triangle around 1 dam+3 IZs, which would take up 7 tiles itself and give 96 production just from IZ adjacency/coal plants for 3 cities. (Plus 2-3 tiles lost to being city centers.) Add in the building effects, and you see that even 3 production per flood plain is almost irrelevant in comparison. If we were dealing with volcanic soil, totally different beast since those can hold mines even on flat land.

Why is there a limit to coal? Burn on! Let the coastal bias civs deal with the rising waters.

Well, there's only so many deposits on the map. 3 coal per deposit is not that much. Sometimes you'll only have 3-6 coal. I like to have strong IZs (6-8 base) in every city, so between that and supporting a lot of campuses & theaters, I cannot actually power everything at once until I have more sources.

 

[Tech Osen]

Egypt bonusses seem to be in conflict with eachother. Production bonus next to rivers to me is more important than throwing down farms/sphinxes which may or may not be randomly boosted.

 

[steveg700]

Egypt bonusses seem to be in conflict with eachother. Production bonus next to rivers to me is more important than throwing down farms/sphinxes which may or may not be randomly boosted.

Well, you don't want your riverside districts getting flooded, do you?

But yes, there are some tough choices around their floodplains, which is the crux of this thread. Even when I was building Ruhr Valley over an improved flooplain, I felt a little dirty, even though the benefit far outweighed the cost.

 

[Tech Osen]

Well, you don't want your riverside districts getting flooded, do you?

Egypt is immune to flood damage.

 

[shaglio]

and more importantly they cannot provide AOE power like IZ plants do, the power goes only to the city that owns it.

But then the Hydro Dam can provide the city that owns it with its power needs, allowing more of the power generated by the IZ to be allocated to nearby cities.

 

[steveg700]

Egypt is immune to flood damage.

Sure, I'm the first guy who said that in this thread.

But the comment was that Egypt's bonuses were in conflict. I submit that flood immunity is not in conflict with the district bonus but rather the former protects the latter.

 

[Tech Osen]

Sure, I'm the first guy who said that in this thread.

But the comment was that Egypt's bonuses were in conflict. I submit that flood immunity is not in conflict with the district bonus but rather the former protects the latter.

I was referring to not having to build a dam to protect your tiles and thus getting full fertility bonuses on floodplains. But those bonuses are irrelevant when you fill your river tiles with districts and wonders because you get a production bonus there.

 

[steveg700]

Yes, it is a sometimes-painful decision in terms of how to utilize tiles. Like I said, it's why I started this thread.

 

[Archon_Wing]

So I tried some starts as Egypt and all I can say is do not bank on Floodplain yields, especially if they are plains. It often just doesn't flood fast enough. My first start was pretty mediocre because I tried to use plains. Sphinxes for the extra culture but it's really just a meme. There's really no point to put them on a river if you can't use them. If it happens it happens and take it. Even with this start here, I very much prefer the building bonus over it. Although I didn't build any dams because I still don't get the placement rules. Aqueducts on the other hand are cheap and easy as Egypt.

I mean, that high yield Sphinx in the middle is really cool and I could have had more if I didn't build the districts, but that would only be for show.

Sphinxes and appeal are sorta nice. Most of these resorts aren't possible with it or Effel, which I never finished.

Egypt's pretty good now I think.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Dams are quite expensive and cost is Always going to be a factor and both housing and amenties can be gained in other ways and the Power from dam is quite late in the game. In my Sweden game I did not build a single dam due to not having a need for them and the fact it would mean giving up a good food tile.

Egypt simply get less gains from dam so if you would not build it playing as Another civ you probably have even less resons to do so as Egypt.

The value of food is basically 2 food support the worker, each additional food support one more worker and making worker into specialists give 3 resources late game with fully built up district.

So a +10 food tile in the screenshot is Worth something like 2.5 science and 1.5 Culture from the Citizens it can support and with one farmer, you get 8-12 resources from the 4 specialists the tile can support which give a total potential yield of 12-16 resources.

If your city is in growth mode, a 10 food tile is far more valuable than let say a 4 food tile which in turn is far more valuable than a 2 food tile and for maintaining population you basically want as few food producing people as possible since the less people working the farms the more you have working the "useful" resources such as production.