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should the us be in the game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Karl Townsend, Jan 12, 2006.

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  1. jar2574

    jar2574 Prince

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    @ Orca

    In my experience, I've found that Americans are no less intelligent than people in other countries. There are stupid people everywhere. IMO the average person is going to pay attention to countries that directly affect his life, but not bother learning about countries that don't directly affect him

    It is true that in general people in other countries know more about America than people in America know about other countries. But IMO this is because America affects the lives of people in those countries more than any individual country affects the lives of people in America.

    In many countries America is featured in the nightly news. So people know whats going on in America. But ask the average Czech about Mexico. Or ask the average Mexican about the Czech Republic. The individuals wouldn't know what's going on in each respective country. This is because those two countries don't usually directly affect one another.

    So you could call the Czech and the Mexican ignorant, just as you could call the American who doesn't know what is going on in Prague and Mexico City ignorant. Or we can shrug and realize that the average person is going to pay attention to countries that directly affect his life, but not bother learning about countries that don't directly affect him.
     
  2. potatokiosk

    potatokiosk Deity

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    If this world were a civ4 game, America would have a victory.
    Although in my opinion, the marshall plan is a tad bit overrated. It helped, but I wouldn't credit it with an entire recovery.
     
  3. Anomaly

    Anomaly Chieftain

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    This is something I`ve often thought about. Its not about when a state or a government was founded, but more about the historical background. Sure, modern day Germany, France and England didn`t exist in 4000 BC, but the cultures that would one day become those countries did. Germany was occupied by germanic cultures just as England (or would become) occupied by the cultures that became modern England.

    The difference with the United States is, that it was a colony and its culture derived from (mainly british) european civilizations. So it wasnt a civilization from the start, but more an offspring that in time, created its own culture.

    The more correct way to deal with this in a game, would be to have ancient civilizations that can be played from the beginning but can change as time progresses. So your ancient "Gauls" with traits A and B eventually become the French with traits X and Y.

    Too big civilizations that go into disorder or don`t deal with unhapiness, can get divided and spawn a new civilization of its era. So if the English get unhappy cities around 1600 AD, those unhappy cities could become an independent civilization, like the U.S.

    This would be the way to go.
     
  4. White Elk

    White Elk 99 > 1

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    Although it has always felt strange to me to see the Americans in the game so early; it would be even stranger to play this game in the modern era without the Americans.
     
  5. chinesefireball

    chinesefireball Warlord

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    They do have their own language - or at least spelling system. Ever noticed how everyone else writes "colour", not "color", and how they often stick in z instead of a s?
     
  6. seasmath

    seasmath Bolos!

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    We have our own language; it's American English...
    Now don't start debating about spelling. ;)
     
  7. drahnier

    drahnier Chieftain

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    And one of the German leaders lived before Germany even existed.

    So they obviously count Prussia as Germany too.
    (Even though Prussia was hardly a great nation in the history of the world, it was a European superpower for a short while before quickly shrinking and fading away again.)


    I really think Americans know less about the world outside their own country than European people do.
    Mainly because they just don't care.

    Isn't it a commonly accepted fact that the average American knows less about world geography than the average european, for example?
     
  8. MattJek

    MattJek King

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    They know less about their OWN country than other people do.
     
  9. Reignking

    Reignking Prince

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    Has anyone noticed that the OP troll hasn't even responded to this post? Just a troll...
     
  10. MattJek

    MattJek King

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    He just wrote it this morning... maybe he hasnt read it yet
     
  11. Tarascan_King

    Tarascan_King Chieftain

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    I second that, this guy is a troll. This topic goes on & on & on & on different threads.
     
  12. jar2574

    jar2574 Prince

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    If Europeans were born in America then they wouldn't care to learn about the outside world anymore than Americans do.

    Like I said, ask a Czech about Mexico. Ask a Mexican about Prague. Their level of ignorance about countries other than America will be comparable to the American's. People know about the USA because it directly affects their lives. Europeans may know about other European countries because they directly affect their lives.

    I wouldn't be surprised. But the average American never leaves America, while the average European lives within a few hours of another country. America is larger in size than the entire EU.

    California's GDP is larger than Russia's, and just slightly smaller than Germany's, France's, and the UK's. How many European's know what the capital of California is? I wouldn't say that their lack of knowledge on the subject makes them unintelligent. They don't bother to learn about that state capital because it doesn't directly affect their lives, while the government in Washington DC does. A Californian won't bother to learn the capitals of European countries for similar reasons.
     
  13. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

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    *LOL* Funny - mind you, Canada is the only country in the world (that I am aware of) never to have lost a war we were involved in...some ties maybe, but no losses!
     
  14. jar2574

    jar2574 Prince

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    Yes. All Americans are stupid. And Canadians are inherently smart. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

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    No - it wasn't. It was a war with Canada, which was a British Protectorate, and consisted of British and French Colonies. YOU try telling the Quebequois they were British - let me know how that works out for you :) Canada had its own representative governments as early as 1791. The forces which combatted the US consisted of Native Americans, British and French troops, along with the colonists and Loyalists who fled the US (almost 700000 of them) during the War of Independance.
     
  16. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

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    All true to my knowledge with the possible exception of #8 - its simply too broad a term - perhaps the "well known" quailfer would be appropriate here. #5 is also questionable, as "culture" isn't the same as "exports"

    Of note though - most of these are a direct result of population and money. If you looked at a per capita issue, I think you'd find that countries like Israel and Switzerland in particular would rank ahead of the US in many categories.
     
  17. drahnier

    drahnier Chieftain

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    That seems highly likely.

    I'm not saying Americans are genetically stupid, i'm saying the environment they live in causes them to not know much about the outside world.

    I really think Europeans know more about the entire world than Americans do, on average.

    Have you never seen any of the studies they've done on geographical knowledge, where America always rates clearly lower than other nations?
    I don't have any links to any such studies so this in no way proves that i'm right, i'm just saying everything i've heard and read indicates that Americans know particularly little about the rest of the world.
    The majority of Americans i've talked to on the internet seem to agree fully with this too.
     
  18. Tharak

    Tharak Chieftain

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    Unfortunately, this argument doesn't really hold true. Look at England for example. Because of the LONG history of Events England has been involved in, someone who is "traditionally" English could have a mixture of French, German, Scandanavian or "Roman" (Italian) in addition to the "original" settlers of the Island. Trying to say that America shouldn't be in because other nations have ties to some culture or culture that happened to be in the area around 4000 BC doesn't work well - heck, a lot of American's have "native" ancestors, who had been in the area since about 10,000 BC...
     
  19. jar2574

    jar2574 Prince

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    I would just look at patent statistics. That would seem to be an objective stat.

    True, but Hollywood and the American music industry would seem to be important cultural influences throughout the world.

    Luxembourg is the only country with a GDP per capita ahead of the USA.
     
  20. jar2574

    jar2574 Prince

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    Yeah, what I'm saying is that the average person in the USA or Europe only knows about places that directly affect them. I'm not saying that Americans know much geography. And yeah, Europeans know more world geography. Because their countries are more directly affected by one another. And because they're pretty darn close together.

    For example, by way of analogy I compared Americans ignorance of geography to the fact that most Europeans don't know the name of the capital of California, even though California's GDP is larger than most European countries. I'd argue that that this is because Europeans aren't directly affected by California's capital. They're affected by Washington DC.

    Americans aren't affected by any individual outside country to the extent that people in those countries are affected by America. So Americans know less about the outside world than Europeans.
     
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