should the us be in the game

[MattJek]

I understand the argument that youre making but I dont agree with you
Ask a European what the capital of (lets say) Ecuador is and they'll either say Quito or tell you embarassingly that they dont know.
Ask an american and most will look at you blankly, then either say "Whats an aqua door?" or "I dont know, why should I care"
I speak from personal experience

 

[drahnier]

Since you used that analogy, i assume the capital of California is NOT Los Angeles.

Heh.

Americans aren't affected by any individual outside country to the extent that people in those countries are affected by America. So Americans know less about the outside world than Europeans.

I think Europeans would also know more about the countries that neither them or Americans are directly affected by.
Such as most Asian nations, Africa and South America.

 

[Tharak]

I would just look at patent statistics. That would seem to be an objective stat..

Well - a quick perusal of the WIPO stats show there were 371 495 patent applications by Japanese residents in Japan (not going to count non residents at this point) 108, 515 were granted. In the same time period the UNited States received 198, 339 and granted 86, 976. Take a look at Korea, or the UK, or the Netherlands - Japan was the easy one, but I haven't done the math on the rest - all look to be about equal or better than the US rate.

True, but Hollywood and the American music industry would seem to be important cultural influences throughout the world..

Being Canadian, I am poorly equiped to answer this issue - being swamped with imported American Culture Perhaps one of our European posters can comment on the influes on Hollywoon abroad?

Luxembourg is the only country with a GDP per capita ahead of the USA.

Very true, but there are many within a couple of hundred dollars...and this doesn't take into account any defecit the country may be running..

 

[jar2574]

I understand the argument that youre making but I dont agree with you
Ask a European what the capital of (lets say) Ecuador is and they'll either say Quito or tell you embarassingly that they dont know.
Ask an american and most will look at you blankly, then either say "Whats an aqua door?" or "I dont know, why should I care"
I speak from personal experience

Well our personal experiences are different then.

Most Europeans I know have no clue about a single country in Central America outside of Mexico and they aren't embarrassed about that in the least.

And don't even start to ask Europeans about state capitals. (Even California, Texas, or New York!) They'll look at you like you're crazy, even though those states are more populous than most European countries. When I lived in Europe, anytime a European gave me a hard time about American ignorance I asked them about state capitals and told them how many people lived in the states I was mentioning. It helped to put things in perspective for most of them, and they would come to agree that maybe they shouldn't be so harsh on American geographic ignorance.

But I would agree that the American might ask "why should I care?" when asked about Ecuador. Ecuador doesn't directly affect the lives of most individuals in America. So their apathy, while unfortunate, is to be expected.

[Edited spelling after embarassing mistake.]

 

[drahnier]

Being Canadian, I am poorly equiped to answer this issue - being swamped with imported American Culture Perhaps one of our European posters can comment on the influes on Hollywoon abroad?

Well i'm Swedish and the influence of hollywood and other American pop culture and American corporations, like in the rest of europe, is absolutely massive.

The majority of everything we watch on TV and the music we listen to is American.

 

[Zombie69]

Moreover, we must include 'America'! What other country in the world has gone to war with Canada, and lost.

Italy and Germany. Twice. Though we (Canada) weren't alone.

 

[drahnier]

Though we (Canada) weren't alone.

Understatement of the year.

 

[Zombie69]

Nevermind. Deleted.

 

[MattJek]

LoL... on the topic about Canada defeating the US in 1812. It like me saying that I beat up a 13 year old and then the 13 year old grows up to be a pro boxer. US was a backwater in 1812 that had just been independant for a little over 30 years, nothing to brag about.

 

[Zombie69]

Understatement of the year.

Not such a big understatement. Of course, i credit the WW2 victory to Russia alone. They pretty much defeated Germany all by themselves. However, Canada did as much, if not more, than the USA. We also played a huge part in WW1.

 

[Zombie69]

LoL... on the topic about Canada defeating the US in 1812. It like me saying that I beat up a 13 year old and then the 13 year old grows up to be a pro boxer. US was a backwater in 1812 that had just been independant for a little over 30 years, nothing to brag about.

More like a bunch of 13 year olds (they had a much bigger population) attacking a single 13 year old boy, and the loner fighting back and making them run and go cry to their mom. But i agree, it wasn't a huge deal.

 

[Zombie69]

Personally, i don't think the USA should be in the game. Yes, they have been a major player worldwide for the last 100 years or so. However, like another poster said, in the game England and America are the only two civs to share the same language. I think in the context of this game, Americans would be well represented as being a part of England.

Of course, for financial reasons, Fireaxis was right to add them in.

 

[jar2574]

Well - a quick perusal of the WIPO stats show there were 371 495 patent applications by Japanese residents in Japan (not going to count non residents at this point) 108, 515 were granted. In the same time period the UNited States received 198, 339 and granted 86, 976. Take a look at Korea, or the UK, or the Netherlands - Japan was the easy one, but I haven't done the math on the rest - all look to be about equal or better than the US rate.

Those are interesting stats. And surprising. At first glance one would think that the Japanese were superhuman inventors.

But many of those patents are repeats. By this I mean that the product was patented first in Japan or in the USA and then patented in the other country. For example, the Mach III is patented in both Japan and the USA. But Gillette is an American corporation. And it would patent its invention in the USA first and Japan second. (Whereas Sony probably patented the Playstation in Japan first and the USA second.)

Futhermore, many Japanese "residents" are subsidiary corporations of USA corporations. The reverse is also true, albeit to a lessor extend since USA corporations dominate the world market.

But, anyway, I cannot find the article I would like to cite regarding scientific patents. It was in the Economist about six months ago, and it compared the number of original patents in the USA, the EU, Japan, and South Korea. By original, it meant the first country the product was patented in. The article pointed out that the USA's once dominant position was being challenged by South Korea and Japan, but America still had the highest number of original scientific patents.

And since you offered real stats whereas I can find none of my own, the best I can do is change the subject and instead link to a site listing the total number of Nobel Prize winners in various categories from many countries. It's a bit of a silly site, but it does show the number of winners in scientific categories is totally dominated by Americans. And I think the Nobel Prize numbers are accurate. (don't ask me about the IQ numbers.)

http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/Nobels.html

Very true, but there are many within a couple of hundred dollars...and this doesn't take into account any defecit the country may be running.

That's a great point. The current USA economic policy is clearly unsustainable. But so are the policies of countries like Italy and Japan, whose annual deficits are greater as a percentage of GDP than the United State's.

Ireland is looking pretty nice at the moment.

 

[jar2574]

Not such a big understatement. Of course, i credit the WW2 victory to Russia alone. They pretty much defeated Germany all by themselves. However, Canada did as much, if not more, than the USA. We also played a huge part in WW1.

Yeah, when Russia singlehandedly took out Japan in the Pacific, that was impressive.

And Canada's decision to develop the atomic bomb was definately key. And the Pacific fleet would have been sunk without Canadian carriers!

 

[Zombie69]

Yeah, what I'm saying is that the average person in the USA or Europe only knows about places that directly affect them. I'm not saying that Americans know much geography. And yeah, Europeans know more world geography. Because their countries are more directly affected by one another. And because they're pretty darn close together.

For example, by way of analogy I compared Americans ignorance of geography to the fact that most Europeans don't know the name of the capital of California, even though California's GDP is larger than most European countries. I'd argue that that this is because Europeans aren't directly affected by California's capital. They're affected by Washington DC.

Americans aren't affected by any individual outside country to the extent that people in those countries are affected by America. So Americans know less about the outside world than Europeans.

No, it's just that there's a greater emphasis on history and geography in European schools. A French, for instance, can tell you the name of the capital of every country in the world. Most of them don't affect them in anyway whatsoever. Amazingly, they can also tell you about the current political situation, current leader and history of most countries.

 

[Zombie69]

Yeah, when Russia singlehandedly took out Japan in the Pacific, that was impressive.

And Canada's decision to develop the atomic bomb was definately key. And the Pacific fleet would have been sunk without Canadian carriers!

I was talking about defeating Germany/Italy. In a way, you could see the War with Germany and the one with Japan as two different wars. The Japanese started their war earlier and finished it later. And they had pretty much no relationship to speak of with Germany. More like a non-aggression treaty then actual allies.

 

[jar2574]

LoL... on the topic about Canada defeating the US in 1812. It like me saying that I beat up a 13 year old and then the 13 year old grows up to be a pro boxer. US was a backwater in 1812 that had just been independant for a little over 30 years, nothing to brag about.

Good analogy.

And to "borrow" it, I'd argue that bragging about Canada winning the War of 1812 is like me bragging that I beat up the 13 year old when I was 13, without mentioning that I had help from my 6'2, 250 pound father.

 

[jar2574]

A French, for instance, can tell you the name of the capital of every country in the world.

You and I must know different Frenchmen. I never met one who had geographic knowledge this extensive.

Different personal experiences I guess.

 

[White Elk]

Since you used that analogy, i assume the capital of California is NOT Los Angeles.

Just in case you weren't being sarcastic; and just for the sake of accuracy.. the capital of California is Sacramento.

 

[Yooka]

Yeah, what I'm saying is that the average person in the USA or Europe only knows about places that directly affect them. I'm not saying that Americans know much geography. And yeah, Europeans know more world geography. Because their countries are more directly affected by one another. And because they're pretty darn close together.

For example, by way of analogy I compared Americans ignorance of geography to the fact that most Europeans don't know the name of the capital of California, even though California's GDP is larger than most European countries. I'd argue that that this is because Europeans aren't directly affected by California's capital. They're affected by Washington DC.

Americans aren't affected by any individual outside country to the extent that people in those countries are affected by America. So Americans know less about the outside world than Europeans.

Another thing to consider on this issue, many Americans can't afford to, or have no cultural connection to any foreign country. It's a big place, and when driving distance to the next county is measured in days... I think that's a big factor in not being familiar with international affairs. Not that it's a good reason, but still.

But yeah, we're gettin' stupid, have been for three decades or so. We really gotta muscle up on that. We've been talking about making it our new years resolution for a while now.

If Michael Jordan only played for 4-5 seasons, but won a scoring title, MVP, All-star MVP, and got the team a championship in every season he played, revolutionized the game and became a cultural icon (these are very close to his CV, just a bit exaggerated), but then suddenly retired for whatever reason, he would still likely be considered a Hall-of-Famer or one of the best 50 players.

Brilliant counterexample. Could use a little tweaking, but for these purposes, very good.

You and I must know different Frenchmen. I never met one who had geographic knowledge this extensive.

I've heard the French race can do astounding things when they have the opportunity to do it in a condescending way.

Ok, ok, I take it back. Bad Yooka.