Should Tookie Williams get clemency?

I think no one should be excuted no matter how heinous the crime, so I suppose I would like to see him given "clemency" though I would call it his rights.
 
Okay, I'll go out and kill a few people and after I get caught, I'll say I'm sorry and the police will let me go. Pfft.

Hang him.
 
Rhymes said:
They'll give you life sentence. Isn,t it enough?
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Depends.
In terms of ensuring safety for society, it sure is.
In terms of justice, no. The people he killed are not arrested for life, they're dead.
 
luiz said:
Depends.
In terms of ensuring safety for society, it sure is.
In terms of justice, no. The people he killed are not arrested for life, they're dead.
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I guess this is what it all comes down to between pro and anti death penalty people. ;)

Those who believe in "an eye for an eye" and those who dont.
 
Rhymes said:
I guess this is what it all comes down to between pro and anti death penalty people. ;)

Those who believe in "an eye for an eye" and those who dont.
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Not necessarily.
I am against the death penalty, as I stated in my first post on this thread. Simply because I think that implementing a system where the chances of executing an inocent are virtually nonexitent would be so expensive that would be a bad idea(as it is a bad idea in the US - it is more expensive to execute someone than to lock him up for life). So there is a very strong pragmatic and economic argument against the death penalty.

That said, fair is fair. You willingly killed and innocent, you die.
 
luiz said:
Not necessarily.
I am against the death penalty, as I stated in my first post on this thread. Simply because I think that implementing a system where the chances of executing an inocent are virtually nonexitent would be so expensive that would be a bad idea(as it is a bad idea in the US - it is more expensive to execute someone than to lock him up for life). So there is a very strong pragmatic and economic argument against the death penalty.

That said, fair is fair. You willingly killed and innocent, you die.
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So, some people convicted of murders and subjected to the death penalty are innocent. And luiz approves of the killing of those who killed. So those who killed are whoever luiz says are those who killed (based on the evidence, of course)? Sounds like luiz makes the decision instead of the jury, but nothing changes.
 
Abgar said:
True, however it's not the cost of killing the person per se, but the cost of many appeals the convicted killer gets to reduce his sentence.

The law says he should die. So if he gets off the hook for writing kids books where do we draw the line, and why this guy? Many people who have done less than him have become "reformed".
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Symbolic icon that's why.
 
Lets put the shoe on the other foot. If this were a white guy, who killed blacks, but was now "reformed" do you think hollywood would cry out for his clemency?

Or is it just politically correct to do it in Tookie Williams case?

As for me, white or black...he murdered people..got the death penalty...lets give the families closure and end it by executing him.
 
Cuivienen said:
So, some people convicted of murders and subjected to the death penalty are innocent. And luiz approves of the killing of those who killed. So those who killed are whoever luiz says are those who killed (based on the evidence, of course)? Sounds like luiz makes the decision instead of the jury, but nothing changes.
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Honestly I did not understand this post at all.

I said that I disaprove the death penalty because implementing a perfect system would be too expensive and time consuming. But I also said that on principle, I'm for executing the murderers.

I never proposed a system where I get to decide the faith of criminals, that is one hell of a cheap shot if I understood what you tried say.
 
I'm against the death penalty. Life in prison is appropriate.
 
does anyone else think Peace between the Bloods and Crips is not a good thing, i mean before they spent their days drive bying each other and murdering each other. and who cares if one gang members kills another. but now there not at war they can spend there time selling drugs and hoes, and murdering regular folk
 
The problem is that gangs would start to appear in otherwise ordinary neighborhoods and terrorize them. The gangs would also fight over "their turf," which usually leads to civilian casualties.
 
I don't buy the notion, passed off as a ready platitude by many here, that the wishes of victims' families should have any bearing on what happens to the offender. Apart from the extremely dubious nature of using the offender's life as a means to satisfy the family's desire for "closure", whatever that means (and it's a fairly recent invention), such an idea would essentially set up a two-tier justice system: harsher penalties for those who kill people with families. Are proponents of this system willing to say that lonely murder victims deserve less exacting justice than those with surviving family? If not, it cannot be suggested that victims with family deserve more exacting justice.

Further, the entire appeal to "victims' rights" similarly perplexes me. Obviously the victim has rights-- the right not to be killed is the sole reason the killer is prosecuted. That there is a consistently applied injunction against murder at all is a massive affirmation of victims' rights. However, victims do not have the right to short-circuit the proceedings of justice against their killer, or to dictate brutal punishments without regard for fairness or humanity. In short, a victim's considerable rights end where a killer's relatively few rights begin. Even a psychopath is entitled to due process, a considered verdict, and an humane sentence, and no contrary desire imputed to the victim or held by his family can circumvent this.
 
I oppose the death penalty, it's too nice, he should spend the rest of his life in a hard labour camp with conditions rivaling those of soviet gulags. It would not only punish him, but also make some money off of him.
 
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