Should you be afraid of Hell?

[Borachio]

Lol.

We've been here before.

You're saying it like it's true and certain that it can't exist independently.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Do you think I'm wrong, Borachio?

 

[Borachio]

No. Not at all.

I think you're likely correct. But I'm certain of nothing on this subject. Especially on this subject; since it's beyond my ken, and I presume everyone else's.

 

[Lohrenswald]

While I see that my brain and conciousness-postulations can be a bit over the top, I'm absolutely confident in dismissing hell as untrue.

Hell is made up. The circumstanses around hell are made up.
If hell is proven, Yahweh is proven, and christianity was right all along. How absurd isn't that?

 

[Borachio]

Just because something is made up, doesn't make it psychologically unreal.

Look at money, just for a random example of something made up.

 

[Lohrenswald]

But money isn't a tale of something non-physical that happens after death.

It's more like proposing there's another unexplored continent.

 

[Borachio]

I agree. The only thing they have in common is that hell and money are, or could be thought of as, made up.

For an exact made-up counterpart to hell, there's heaven, of course.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

While I see that my brain and conciousness-postulations can be a bit over the top, I'm absolutely confident in dismissing hell as untrue.

Hell is made up. The circumstanses around hell are made up.
If hell is proven, Yahweh is proven, and christianity was right all along. How absurd isn't that?

This is that uncomfortable added conclusion. When confronted by the unanswerable people just make stuff up...and among all the made up stuff there just may be something that just happens to be right. It's like the odds of hitting any single point on a dartboard. Maybe it's "Hell doesn't exist" or maybe we are all gonna be amazed when we turn up in Sovngarde (and I would guess the absolutely most amazed people present will be guys who work for BethSoft).

 

[Lohrenswald]

and among all the made up stuff there just may be something that just happens to be right.

I'm postulating that that isn't true.

 

[Triewd]

The very concept is manipulative, though I have to admit its comforting to think that people I intensely dislike are going to hell forever....

One suspects that's one of the reasons for it being stipulated as existing.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It's one of the foundational tenets of Christianity.

The reason Jesus came to earth to die was to take the punishment for humanity's sins, to fulfill God's justice.

Penal Substitutionary Atonement is certainly not a foundational tenant of Christianity.

It is a Calvinist interpretation which remains very popular among Evangelicals today, but far from a universal doctrine held by Christians historically.



True justice is not about revenge or punishment. It is about putting things right. It may be right to chasten those who do wrong in order to improve them or to dissuade others from similar mistakes, but the doctrine of eternal conscious torment could never work like that. It only makes sense for the wicked to continue to suffer so long as the suffering may lead to repentance and reconciliation.

God's justice is in no way at odds with his mercy. Mercy that leads to reconciliation is the highest justice. Neither is wrath at odds with love. Love is willing the good of another. Wrath comes directly from love, and is directed at stopping the self destructive habits of the beloved.

 

[Agent327]

That's very eloquently put. But how does that reconcile with eternal damnation? As in hell?

Somewhat off topic, but i'd like to think there is a special little spot in hell for priests and such who abuse children. And not to 'heal their ways', since these sins were committed in life and cannot be atoned for in death.

(Personally I don't believe in hell, as humans are quite capable of making life a living hell.)

 

[Borachio]

Neither is wrath at odds with love. Love is willing the good of another. Wrath comes directly from love, and is directed at stopping the self destructive habits of the beloved.

I don't think I agree. Wrath, it seems to me, is an out of control anger. And anger itself is an out of control irrational emotion anyway.

There's absolutely no more reason to be angry with a criminal than there is to be angry with a mentally deranged person, imo. Or with a dog with rabies.

But maybe you're using "wrath" in a sense that I'm unfamiliar with.

And the God of the old testament - a very wrathful entity - seems to have precisely anger management issues.

 

[El_Machinae]

You also cannot get true justice until the victim forgives the perpetrator. The idea that God's forgiveness is 'sufficient' is incoherent

 

[Borachio]

Do you mean "reconciliation" rather than "justice" there?

Well. I don't know. I don't really know what justice is, to be fair (!).

 

[Agent327]

No, he means 'true justice'. Not something that can be used in any court.

 

[Lohrenswald]

As I've implied, assuming hell exists means you have to assume Yahweh exists and has this skewed sense of justice.

 

[warpus]

Then again, even if Yhwh exists, is it the Old Testament version, the New Testament version, or maybe some other version we're not aware of?

 

[gay_Aleks]

The Old Testament, first because it's the oldest, and second, because it's probably the most cruel. And unusual. Stakes and salt sculptures galore!

 

[Tahuti]

The Old Testament, first because it's the oldest, and second, because it's probably the most cruel. And unusual. Stakes and salt sculptures galore!

Old Testament = Baldur's Gate
New Testament = Mass Effect 3