Sid avarage start

[Mumpulus]

One final note on strategy: our task force in the east is rather small right now, and we can already see lots of units near Kagoshima, so that front will be difficult to handle. Unless we can crush them in the west and thus spare some more MWs from that side, I don't see us making much progress in the east. I'd try to make peace as soon as possibly to gauge what we can get out of it, unless we can build up a really strong position very soon.

 

[I. Larkin]

850 BC Persia and France have literature now. Trade value to Japan will be smaller now. Joan has gone medieval.

I think just this time we could Trade Literature and (as Spain did not had it) it could have better value for Japan. But we were reallu unlucky here...
Have not seen Elear for a while....

I'm tempted, but I really don't think I should, considering I'm better at, well, everything that isn't warfare....
-Elear

May be Ignas will play this?

 

[Mumpulus]

We were very unlucky on the trading front indeed. But we should look at the bright side: I think we did very well on initial expansion, and have a huge strategic advantage over Japan at this point. If we play the wars well tactically, we'll have a huge core considering this is sid.

 

[ignas]

May be Ignas will play this?

OK. Will look at save tomorrow and play on Saturday

 

[Elear]

I think just this time we could Trade Literature and (as Spain did not had it) it could have better value for Japan. But we were reallu unlucky here...
Have not seen Elear for a while....

May be Ignas will play this?

Yes, of course, Ignas may.

I'm swamped

 

[I. Larkin]

Yes, of course, Ignas may.

I'm swamped

Glad to hear that Elear alive. May be meanwhile he will play SGTOM turns? His "Got it" stays from 2 April...

Some tackticall issues. My limeted Sid experience shows that this sometime efficient:
not raze City immideatly but 1-2 turns after. It is also good, to pillage around and run away.
And definetly not to replace immediately.
At my Sid COTM up to 100 archers stays in "dead spot".
Workers should build roads first (for Dynamical defence) May be too late, but we need road near NF to Kagosuma.
Mumpulus make gpt deal, so we have to arrande "Japanise declare" somehow.
Don't know why we research currency not on min (10%)? It is the same 47, but we may need money
(to pay tribute, upgrade Chariot...).

 

[ignas]

Played my turns, will post log soon

 

[I. Larkin]

Played my turns, will post log soon

Why not to put resulting save at once?

 

[ignas]

750BC: everything looks good;
move some units into Japans territory and see quite a few units. This might be tough
lower science to 10%, now making +16gpt;
switch Mauch chunk to walls

IT: some Spanish, Japanese units wandering around

730BC: send 2 MW to Mauch Chunk to defend western border;
reconnaissance shows quite a few Vet Archers and Spears. But what could you expect from 15 town SID AI?
11 MW's are ready to attack Satsuma next turn; if it will get too hot will sign MA with SPain

IT: a struck of luck? Japanese units are moving towards Spain territory! What could this mean?

710BC: would have attacked Japan this turn but will wait to see will Japan attack Spain;
upgrade chariot to MW;
notice Japs have ROP with Spain; maybe aren't going after Spain but after other civ we don't know of?

IT: Japan moves units into Spain's territory but no declaration of war;

690BC: decide to wait one more turn to see what Japan is going to do;

IT: no war declaration;

670BC: I know time is very important but decide to wait one more turn;
send one MW to Spain to scout a bit what's going on there

IT: Japan ROP rapes Spain!;
each side loses around 15 units, mainly archers; very well, they will burn some units-> easier to kill them;
Allegheny deposes us and pledge allegiance to Spanish

650BC: OK. Time to attack: sign almost all citizens to taxmen, turn off entertainment and science -> +46 gpt;
46 gpt + horses nets us Map Making and 120 gold (japan won't give us MM+philo for that); make Japan furious and ask them to leave our beautiful country, but they refuse -> we are paying them 0 gpt and getting war happinnes
take Satsuma with a loss of MW (2-1); BTW we are in GA and have an elite MW! replace Satsuma with our own town;
citizens back to work;
suicide MW kills archer in Spain; kill spear and archer near Salamanca; kill spear/warrior combo near Mauch Chunk (7-1); capture a slave
move units towards Matsuyama to attack next turn

IT: Xerxes demands 25 gold, give; lose MW in Spain, kill Jap archer on defence (8-2); Russians building Sun Tzu;
Moscow builds Great Library!! We might need this one some time in future

630BC: kill 3 defenders in Matsuyama and take the town (11-2); sell barracks there and replace with our own settler
turn on science again (forgot to do this last turn);
kill spear near Mauch Chunk, kill redlined archer near NF; kill 2 more units approaching Nagasaki (15-2);
notice a stack of 10 archers and few spears is approaching NF;

IT: kill 2warriors and a spear! on defence but lose 1 MW (18-3); a stack of 30 units approach Niagara Falls;
Japan boots our curragh

610BC: clean up a bit around, kill 3 regular or damaged Japan units (21-3);
kill ratio is perfect but we are short on units and big Japanese stack is approaching NF, we might lose it; we have just 16 MW's and 10 spears scattered all over the wide front

IT: kill 3 units on defence and lose 1 (24-4); luckily some of the Japanese turn back;
capital riots

590BC: kill 6 Japanese units this turn losing none (30-4);
firstly trying to track down regular or damaged units; there are MANY Japanese units around; I can not even think about offensive right now;

IT:

570BC: killed nice mainly archer stack this turn 10-2 (40-6); 8th elite victory, got Kutuzov and built an army which will be filled next turn;
Japan now will talk with us;
we can now trade luxes with Persians;

IT: Lose 5 units this turn, including 3 MW's (40-11); Tonawanda riots

550BC: kill 1 and lose 1 (41-12);
didn't finish turn


We are short on units: 16 MW's, 8 spears. Though Salamanca and NF are 2turn MW factories. NF is in danger a bit, if it gets too hot sign peace. Japan will talk.

It would be good to take Sapporo or Nagasaki or Izumo before peace to take down cultural pressure.

Army is not filled. Fill it and go to south capture some city if you think NF will hold. To capture Nagasaki is priority I think.

Strenghten relations with Persians (trade our furs for gems)-> lower chances of sneak attack.

The flip was ridiculous, Allegheny was 3 tiles away from capital!

GLib was built in Moscow. We should visit that village some day.

Japan has many units. We are lucky that Japan declared on Spain.

 

[Mumpulus]

Very nice

That flip was very unfortunate indeed, but it was to be expected that we'd lose a town that way sooner or later. Glad it was Allegheny and not Niagara Falls.

If we can hold on to Niagara Falls, I would definitely go for Kagoshima with the army before signing peace. We need some breathing room on the cultural front.

The GLib is on our continent. I think we have a very good chance with this game.

 

[ignas]

Kagoshima will be a tough nut: it is size 8 with at least 3 vet spears in it. But it is vital to raze Kagoshima to take down cultural pressure from Niagara Falls

 

[ThERat]

Great progress and great news that Japan and Spain are fighting.

I would not rush into peace, we have an army and can make full use of it as japan has only spears and archers. They will lose a lo against Spain as well, so we can advance in the west and take their cities. I think, if we play wise, we can take the whole west and maybe take out Kagoshima, followed by peace and tech extortion.
We are depots and don't get WW, thus let's play this slow and wise. The time of our UU is now and then never again. If we get maybe another army, we might be able to accomplish all this.

 

[I. Larkin]

Sure, we continue war. While spain fight we have a chanse to clean land fronm Japan.
well, may be 2 options: 1) Leave them with single City,
2) Kill them all and with at last turn MA + gpt get all from spain and whoever.
At current situation: we may trade Fur +7 (or 1gpt) for Gems and send more units to front. It is sensible to fill Army no with 1 MW and put it to NF.
Slave start something at my "projected spot for City" why not to build City there?
Litel bit confused about Roster:
Who is up?

 

[ThERat]

Who is up?

I think it's you

 

[I. Larkin]

I think it's you

OK, will play soon.
Intermideate report: play 8 turns raze 5 Cities including Kagosuma.
Have 2 MW armies. (1 lost, had 3). Total Army as "avarage" vs Japan, and it will be no problem to kill them at all.
But question: What next? Who will help us to fight againsed Spain?
Or Persia?
And when and how we will conduct this war?

 

[I. Larkin]

0 550*BC ""* Embassy in Persipolis. They in GA, Monarchy. 18 spt give Immortal each turn. Persipolis 1 tile from coast. F4 check: Persia at war with Spain, Russia and France. Spain has 2 MAs. Trade fur+ 7 lump sum for Gems.
Regroupe troops a little, put 1 MW to Army and put it to NF, Put 1 MW to Salamanca for “Dynamic defense”. Stop Slave and move it to Irrigate near St. Regis. Put Settler at position.
IBT Japan attack NF archer dies Spear Promote to Elite and Jupun stacks go away!? Just pellged near NF. May be Spain attack Japan?
1 530*BC "" killed with 2 MW Army near NF. Fight in defense.
IBT Japan attack Spain, Spain attack Japan. Japan removed Spain from Kagosuma and 8 units come again to NF. 3 Spears at South west, Ar/sp couple near Tyengada and GR .
2 510*BC ""* Kill stuck near NF with Kutuzov’s Army and MV. Moved elite Spear forward.
IBT Japan attack Spain, Spain attack Japan… Spain starts Sun Tzu.
3 490*BC ""* Moved stack to Kogasuma. Raze Nagasaki 5 slaves.We need settlers (Tonawaga and GR). In defense (MW attack) got Leader and form second Army at South.
IBT Japan attack Spain, Spain attack Japan. Japan pulled all trooks toward Kagosuma. One wounded Spain Archer near. West rear of troops, but Catapults dominate. Izumo border expanded…
4 470*BC ""*Trial attack Kogasuma. Kutuzov’s Army won.
Near Kagosuma 13 Units 12/14 Army, 2 Spears, 2/3 archer, 5 e MWs, 4 v MWs. Defensive manures at west. Army at south go to Izumo. Check deal with japan. see picture...
IBT Japan attack Spain, have success. Unload at south from Galley. Spears at west.
5 450*BC ""* Decisive battle at Kogasuma. Our 13 units stack with Kutiuzov's army vs 3 Spear + 2 warriors + 2 archers inside. Result: Army lost, 4 MW lost, other wounded, archer lost. In Kogasuma 2 archers. Desided to save spears. Bring MW and warrior to help. Raze Izumo. Got new Leader but no slaves?
It was size 6. At west still some Jap spear. Trade Monarchy from Egypians for all our 3 Techs + 400+ 13 gpt. Trade Fur+Horses+ 14 to France for Philosophy.
Trade To Egypt for 270 gold. [Revolt, got 8 turns Anarchy. [j/k]].
IBT Japan keep pressure everywhere. E Archer killed Elit Spear, 3 galleys at West coast, Archer make MW retreat, Pillage near Tyengada, new spear come at west. With all this Galleys not clear, how many troops to leave at defence. Kagusuma got new troops, spears try break our defense line near NF.
Also Spain like at peace?
6 430*BC "" Fortunatly they still at war. Final battle near Kagosuma. 8/8 Army strike to 1/8, Some MWs lost but Raze Kagosuma. 6 Slaves.
Got confident defense at west and slow advance at south west.
IBT Japan Galleys sails North and South. But no unload.
7 410*BC ""*Regrouped troops. Send stuck of 4 MW to Shimonoseki.
Found City at near Izumo.
IBT Japan killed 2 MWs, Spain attack Japan near ruins of Kagosuma. Cleaned area and Horse goes to our land.
8 390*BC ""*Keep quiet vs Spain. Raze Simonoseki. 4 slaves. MW dies vs non fortified Archer-> 2/4! Bring settler to Position, but we need more.
IBT Spain attack Japan at far east… Japan not seen anymore. Only galleys sails. Explained to Xserks that we are friends. He started Sun Tsu.
9 370*BC ""*Regrouped troops. Japan agrees to give Sapporo. It is size 5, BTW. May be we will take this? I almost agreed, but what about Sapporo + Worker? No? Well… Send Army to Nara. But where send the rest?
IBT Japan move wounded spear at West, Spain goes through our land.
10 350*BC ""*Regrouped troops not to let Spain block our main road.
Comment: Probably trade was a mistake. Now our route depend on Peace with Russia and Spain. If we’d know west coast and have harbor there, but Curragh sail back and I did not decided to send it west. Sapporo grow to size 6, and now Japan “Close” about that. Don’t know, may be we may take it and keep? Harbor expensive for us. Not sure, that setller in NF is a good idea. I was thinking about spot near Spain Border (yellow dot), like combat one. But with corruption we will have 14 spt… May be Salamanca better for settler? Setler at Tyendenaga goes to red dot, bu we may discuss it. I left some troops unmoved, because don’t know, if we want peace with Japan soon and war with Spain. Since it trash our reputation we should use it wise: for example get currency for Fur and gpt and then ask Spain remove or declare… japan ofer small City, but who knows, what it is…

Edit: After some thoughts, I realize that yellow dot (and settler in NF) is a bad idea. We will be at war with Spain soon and it will be our "weak point". I think it is the best to build Temple instead. It will pick Cow reduce flip risk, and on case of defensive war it is easer to deal with Horses with larger radius. Library is also an option.
second It is important to build Harbor in Toknogawa or St. Regis. May be even poprush it with 1 Citizen. Make RoP with Persia and scout along west Coas with MW (now).
As temporary solutin, may be leave Yokhogama alive, may be it's Harbor survive. If not then Poprush.
Also will help if Persia capture Spain City that wiil block trade route.
However if we decided to trash reputation it is not that important.
I think we have enough troops to finish West Japan and have normal Defense at East.
May think about some settlers/infrastrukture.
Next Leader may build FP in Toknogawa or St. Regis, say.
Roster (correctme if I am wrong
TheRat,
Mumpulus,
Elear
Ignas
I. Larkin.

 

[ThERat]

I had a look at the save...we can certainly finish off Japan in the west and should quickly settle all the space that is now available.
I would keep the Japanese cities in the west for now. Maybe they have harbors as we need them.
I checked and maybe instead of taking a Japanese city, we should take their 2 techs (CoL and construction) for peace.

I would not want to trash reputation at this point in a Sid game. We still need a lot of friends and play them against each other.

I assume we head for republic and revolt soon after we got out of the GA (and got republic in the first place)


got it

 

[I. Larkin]

I checked and maybe instead of taking a Japanese city, we should take their 2 techs (CoL and construction) for peace.

We do not need that "urgently". We may take 2 Cities (or at least Yokhogama next turn)
Deal will be only better...
Don't forget to scout along west coast, RoP now "free" as we and Persia at war with Japan.

I would not want to trash reputation at this point in a Sid game. We still need a lot of friends and play them against each other.

It is under threat! War with spain (unless Xerks capture Spanish City at North) will trash reputation... Thats why urgent action like Harbors at west we need...

I assume we head for republic and revolt soon after we got out of the GA (and got republic in the first place)

What do you think about Monarchy? we will perform lot of wars...
Temple at NF now?

 

[Mumpulus]

I would go with monarchy too. After Spain, we have an excellent position for long wars.

I would try to preserve our reputation. War with Spain should come asap, but not before we have alternative trading routes in place. After we've taken West-Japan, we may as well continue at a more controlled pace (less casualties on our side) in the south, while we wait on the trading routes.

Red dot should become two dots instead, one of them on the river. We need a lot of settlers.

 

[ThERat]

Played 5 turns so far, but want to pause to ask the team for a decision.

I have taken the 2 western Japanese cities which both have a harbor, trade route intact. I followed Mumpulus recommendation and will build 2 cities near red dot. We have a few sites to settle.

Now, the issue is about tech trade. Egypt just got CoL, but lacks the other 2 techs. Japan would give us CoL and construction for peace, bu no city. We are soon able to get more of their cities, I think.
Now, shall we get currency from France for gpt (sth like 25gp + 400gold) and then trade hat for CoL? Or do we take out Japan completely and then trade with Spain and get them to declare?