Sid avarage start

[I. Larkin]

Army Strong vs Russians, average vs Persia amd Weak vs France.
Next turn France Capture Peterburg.
Now question: Shall we let them to continue to South (Rostov)?
Shall we let them capture Moscow?
Trade Metalurgy from England.
Research: MT in 11 turns with -108 gpt, Trajery 1082 gold.

 

[Mumpulus]

Will it really make things easier for us to let the French take it first? If it does, I'd let them take it, why not. But if it doesn't really change much, I'd rather not complicate things. I see you made some MAs; when our reputation is shot, we won't be able to do that. If the Russians are fighting three civs now, we can probably roll over them fast now. Let's just do that, and not risk having to postpone later actions because we still have a deal with the French and/or Persians. Especially if MT is coming soon, let's keep up our speed.

 

[I. Larkin]

We have deals with Russians. And if we want reputaton clean we have to stay with it.
But, probably we may ignore.
Also the later we capture TGL the more techs we will get. France Industrial, but England and Babylon not yet.
To simplify things I let Joahn capture all russian Cities except Moscow...

 

[I. Larkin]

0 550*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM
Make MA vs Celts with England for Chemestry, pay 166 gpt. Metallurgy in 10.
Embassy in Rome. They don’t have any res and at war vs Celts and Babas. Trade Chem to Persia for Theo and 5 gpt. Bound Germany to MA vs Celts with Peace Treaty. The same with Rome.
Stop settlers production we do not need that many.
IBT Persia and russia fight Celts sinked our Galley.
1 560*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM"
IBT Persia and russia fight
2 570*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM"
IBT Persia and russia fight. Celts sink second Galley.
3 580*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM"
IBT Persia and russia fight French Knights appear. They have no RoP with Persia.
4 590*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM Found MCh1 to ensure entrance to big fresh water lake. Trade Gold from France for gpt. (Just in case) (Rea case when they answer positively to “Grand us Loan?”
IBT Persia and russia fight France declare to Russia. England pay to Babs 800+ for Ma vs Celts. France build Newton (With Leader?)
5 600*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM, trade Metallurgy from England for 250 gpt. Trade it to France and Babylons. Eng has MT. MT at 11 turns. Move Cats back to upgrade. Renegotiate Peace with Eng for 160.
IBT Persia and russia fight in jungle without results. France captured St. Petersburg.
6 610*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM" Found New Niagara at Iron near Tver’.
IBT Persia and russia fight. France capture Krasnoyarsk.
7 620*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM"
IBT Persia and russia fight
8 630*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM found City near Hamadan"
IBT Persia and russia fight
9 640*AD ""*"Move troops north, trade WM"
IBT Persia and russia fight, Persia capture Hamadan, France Vladivostok.
10 650*AD ""*"Move troops north. We need to make decision. Russia toast anyway, but we may keep some Cities for us. I think Moscow as well. We are so strong that may wait. Settler may settle at 1 N to grab 3 Incenses.
Really RoP deal with Persia and Gem weith Russia was a mistakes. Our Army stay useless and we could start to grab land already. Do not put "Alwas Negotiate deal on". We may do Russians without RoP rape, but I have no idea how we protect Cath from France without.

 

[ThERat]

got it, why don't make Russia mad and get them to declare? not possible?

 

[Mumpulus]

We can cancel our RoP with them right now. We can demand chivalry to try and make them mad at us. If we could lure one of their units into our territory, we might have a shot at getting them to declare.

Edit: hiring scientists where practical allows lowering science to get MT in 5 turns still, at positive gpt.

 

[ThERat]

we have another method to get Russia to declare war. We can sell england all contacts (they will get them sooner or later anyway) for around 1000gold and then attempt an immediate steal after making them furious...that should do the trick unless we are successful.

What does the team think?

 

[I. Larkin]

we have another method to get Russia to declare war. We can sell england all contacts (they will get them sooner or later anyway) for around 1000gold and then attempt an immediate steal after making them furious...that should do the trick unless we are successful.

What does the team think?

There a risk that we will steal Education, and plan will collaps. Also as Army strong vs Russia and they are at war with France and Persia. I think we may simply wait end of deal... Sell contact to England a "good idea". Strange, that France did not come to Celts yet...

 

[Mumpulus]

Don't you get to pick the tech once a steal succeeds? They have chivalry, so we can take that to avoid education.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

You can select the tech, IF there is more than one available.

 

[ThERat]

update after 5 turns

Pre-Turn
MM as suggested and we can ge MT in 5 at positive cashflow
as suggested by myself, sell contacts to England for
then make Russia angry and attempt a steal that goes wrong
Russia declares war on us

start to attack Ergili, take out 2 muskets without a single loss
bomb Moscow, take out 4 muskets and a LB and we have the city
move in as many units as possible

attack and take out Hamada for the loss of 1 MW
hurry settler in Oka to replace that city in a better location

swap all scientists to taxmen, we make 334gpt

IT oh no, one of our exposed MW armies is taken out by a knight
we need cavalry for sure
we get chivalry, education , PP, democracy, banking, astronomy, navigation, physics, ToG and MT
only magnetism is missing from the techs of the MA
Barca riots due to loss of temples

1. 660AD
sell Babylon physics for wines, Music and wine
while taking Ghulaman, gain a leader, do we form an army or do we get MA?
decide to go for an army, that we can fill with cavalry

take Bryansk. upgrade 3 MW to cav for the army

check how fast we could get magnetism, 11 turns at positive cashflow
decide to stick with min research and buying that later on

2. 670AD
found 2 new cities, one providing us with incense
steal Rostov from the French (they had plenty of units nearby, but lose 3 MW)

IT we are lucky as Persia and Russia battle it out in front of our eyes and we get away with that
England joins in the war against Russia via France
I spot IA looking French workers

3. 680AD
as I suspected, England has magnetism as well now
my plan is to roll Russia from the south as the north is full of units from all sides
Start by using the cav army to attack Murmask, a MW does the rest and we take the city

IT Russia is obviously gassed as they field no more units
French stream into their land and we better hurry to not lose out

4. 690AD
take Tver and we have our own source of silks
take Irkusk losing 2 MW, our cav army is healing

IT we finally get a few cavalry

5. 700AD
take Kazan, move on to Yekaterinburg


Some issues:
We have 1700gold in our pockets but can not afford a safe steal yet. o get the tech by trading is insanely expensive and not worth the effort. We need to get our way up to steam to RR our land and then take out Persia and France. Russia is no more issue and should be taken out completely, thus no razing of cities.

 

[Mumpulus]

Excellent progress so far

A question to ask before taking on the French: where are they getting their horses and saltpeter from? I've looked over their lands and can't see any sources in their lands. I would guess they're getting both from the Persians, who have 3 saltpeter sources (2 hooked up) and 2 horses. Hence, when we're ready, we may declare on France first and get the Persians in on them. Then start with the ex-Russian cities and the small island first, while the Persians and French soften each other up further, then get the Persians to declare on us.

Edit: if we're going to do a min run on science, wouldn't it be better to set the sci slider to 0% and hire a lone scientist?

Edit2: Peel a worker from Grand River? Won't make a difference on the cav build after. Chondote can get and extra shield for one less turn on the cav build by taking an irrigated BG tile from Yokohama, which has another irrigated grassland to switch to. Peel a worker or even settler from Tonawanda? Sapporo, Larkamanca, and Iron City can grow faster.

 

[ThERat]

Edit: if we're going to do a min run on science, wouldn't it be better to set the sci slider to 0% and hire a lone scientist?

I thought that's what I did. Maybe I played around before submitting the save. Anyway, will do the requested MM before hitting enter.

I agree with the war plans, we need Persia to help us buffer France.

 

[ThERat]

6. 710AD
WW kicks in big time, increase lux to 20%

go for a careful steal and succeed with England as they are away
we get magnetism for 2000gold and enter the IA
France has nationalism, nobody else has anything

lose a MW but capture Yekaterinburg

IT Novgorod falls into French hands. In fact, Russia is down to 4 cities and might fall very soon

7. 720AD
take Novosibirsk, there are plenty of French troops around Smolensk

Decide to go for peace as we have no deal regarding the war. Ge the 2 remaining cities and 3 slaves

decide to self research steam, would be ready in 13 turns

IT Russia demands that we leave their land, give them democracy for 3 more slaves as they are doomed
true enough, France takes them out of the game

8. 730AD
I will try and get something of a complete block of the south

IT Persia and France move back through the small channels left over

9. 740AD
found a city in Russian land

10. 750AD
found another city

I started the HE and MA as we need both. We only have 3 armies (1 cav)
I hope the decision for full scale research is fine, 11 turns left to steam

I would only attack France once we have rails to the front in order to be able to react properly.
We need to take out the former Russia cities first to get that saltpeter back

we could sell Persia a tech for 24gpt (not really much), Babs pay a little more


the blocked land with a small opening for Persia, that moves first in the rotation

 

[Mumpulus]

Got it, but won't play until tomorrow night at the earliest. I've seen enough pink units for one day in my AWD game.

I'd continue research for sure. Tech pace has been very slow in this game.

We have 15 cavalry; I'll try to get that count up, and prepare for war again.

Question: why did you leave an opening for the Persians?

Proposals:
- sell barracks in cities that aren't going to be producing military (once we have rails, it won't matter for healing)
- scratch musket builds, no need for (as many) defensive units once we get rails

 

[I. Larkin]

Proposals:
- sell barracks in cities that aren't going to be producing military (once we have rails, it won't matter for healing)
- scratch musket builds, no need for (as many) defensive units once we get rails

Good. We may also borrow money from France if "unsuccesfull steal" trick works so nice...

 

[I. Larkin]

Trade at pre-turn:
Looked at save and found, that some deals expires now and we may or may not renew it.
Also some trades possible to increase cash flow.
1) Trade Horses and fur to Eng for all thieir 9 gpt+
2) Cansel MA vs Celts. *that give about 176 gpt*
3) Trade Tech or Lux+Res to Babs will give 36 gpt+
4) We need cansel MA with Germans not to losse reputation if Celts will kill them.
Peace renegotiation with Germans will give 6 gpt.
5) Not sore about Rome. They have nothing and Celts have nothing.
But if we do nothing at preturn they will cansel MA vs Celts IBT.
6) We may trade Fur and Silk to France for about 900 if we don't want go for war next 20 turn or hope that forsed DoW will work.

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 750AD

I wake the workers at Salamanca to go and help mining at Tonawanda. Go over all cities and get to steam in 10 turns at -45gpt. After selling some barracks, a walls and even a granary, we're at 429 gold and -36gpt.

I take a look at the deals I. Larkin mentioned:
1) 9gpt from the English for our resources is way too little I think
2) I do cancel the MA with the English
3) Furs and silks to the Babylonians gets us 36gpt and all their 64g
4) Renegotiate peace with the Germans and get 6gpt
5) I leave the Romans alone
6) Get 974g from the French for furs and silks

I can increase science to 100% now, giving steam in 7 turns at -245gpt.

Since we're going to ally with the Persians, I sell them ToG for 24gpt and all their 23g.

I end up with 1490 gold in the treasury, running at -221gpt towards steam power in 7 turns. We should be able to sustain that, with more infrastructure coming in soon. Maybe 6 turns will even be feasible.

Now, I take a look at MapStat and I'm quite amazed at the tech trading situation. This is Sid, right? Anyway: how about gifting the scientific civs into the industrial age?

- The Persians are short Magnetism, we'd still have MT on them, plus furs and silks
- The Babs are short ToG and Magnetism, we'd still have MT on them, plus horses
- The Germans are short a lot, we'd still have MT on them, plus horses, iron, furs, silks, and gems

This was a pretty long inherited turn, but I think it was worth it. I'll continue tomorrow after feedback.

The trade situation overview:

 

[I. Larkin]

) 9gpt from the English for our resources is way too little I think

Why? it is money, but english are small. Horses coud help them to fight vs Celts.
But, probably to save rep it is good thing not to trade.

Now, I take a look at MapStat and I'm quite amazed at the tech trading situation. This is Sid, right? Anyway: how about gifting the scientific civs into the industrial age?

I think it is an excelent idea; pity that I did not come to it myself. Together with Peace neg they could pay lot more. But probaly not that much. Anyway try it with German and Persia first and see what we can gain out of it... Probably we may take a risk and continue MA vs Celts with Germans together with GPT paimentst to them.
They could make a peace giving To Celts some techs...

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 750AD (continued)

I gift Magnetism to the Persians, they draw Medicine. Our advisor doubts they would accept MT and 642gpt for it. If we add our 1490g, we're getting close to a deal. That's a lot of money. Maybe the Germans will be more accommodating.

I gift the Germans a bunch of required techs to get in the industrial age, they draw Steam Power! If Leipzig falls, their capital will be landlocked, so I'm not going to trade any goods. We get Steam Power in exchange for: Chivalry, Printing Press, Music Theory, Navigation, Military Tradition, Contact with the Egyptians, 1490 gold, and 279gpt.

Prices to get nationalism or medicine are extremely steep. I'll be saving money for a steal. I trade Steam Power to France for 1526 gold and 264gpt.

We have three coals hooked up and a fourth in our territory. The French have one I think, but just barely, near Tours.

I close that hole for the Persians, because I don't understand it and didn't get an answer.

I set research to electricity, but with a lone scientist only. Change a lot of citizens to taxmen, and put many back to work as well.

That concludes a very long inherited turn; I hope the rest goes faster.

Not quite: sell Democracy to Germany for 1490 gold and 84gpt. World map goes to England for 7g and to Rome for 1g. We have all the money in the world now.

IT
Peace with the Romans is extended. The Persians and the French parade around a gazillion units.

A lot of builds complete, and a lot of units are started. We get a palace expansion.

Germany and Persia exchange steam power and medicine.

1) 760AD
Switch some builds to workers, because with our current workforce, rails will take forever to complete. I try an immediate steal in Germany, but it fails.

IT
More parading.

Germany and France exchange nationalism and medicine.

2) 770AD
Just micromanaging.

IT
More parading.

3) 780AD
Just micromanaging.

IT
Nothing new.

4) 790AD
Nothing new.

IT
Celts and English sign peace. The English start Smith's.

5) 800AD
More of the same.

I'm attaching the save, but I'd like to continue and finish tomorrow night, if that's ok. If not, next player feel free to take it.

We've almost completed the military rail net. We're sitting on a pile of cash, and are making 1080gpt and rising. I'd use the cash to upgrade mounties to cavalry. I think we'll then be ready to take on the French hordes.