Sidar Plus

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by xxHammerxx, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. zup

    zup Emperor

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    The current art for divided soul is pushing it but it looks good, I give you that. Any unit ever named 'ninja' crosses the line imo. I'm not convinced Sidar need a shadow uu, civ specific art has a big :drool: factor however.
     
  2. xxHammerxx

    xxHammerxx rage monkey

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    Agreed. Thats more the lines I was thinking anyways. I've always wanted to join the art team, I just need to learn how to ... and find the time.
     
  3. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Hmm, I'll see what I can do about that. I've always seen the Sidar as shadowy assasins myself. It would add some new, interesting tactical decisions in multiplayer ^_^
     
  4. AlexandrJJ

    AlexandrJJ Chieftain

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    Usually I want to support anyone who gets into modding, because a lot of the time they do great. But this is a terrible idea because your ideas are terrible and you aren't exactly very smart.
     
  5. Vehem

    Vehem Modmod Monkey

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    ...which is why the community is as good as it is. I don't often get chance to reply to requests for help anymore because someone has normally already offered the answer.

    ...whilst this is a very good reason to not post at all. Negative personal opinion backed by ad hominem reasoning isn't really going to help anyone. If someone wants to mod something - let them have at it. You're never obligated to offer help and there's no reason to offer such nonconstructive criticism.
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Please, no jackass posts. You have no obligation to play the mod, so don't.
     
  7. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Where'd this come from? Anyhow, Sidar Specialist ftw!
     
  8. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    well, from my MP experience the following equasion should return true for any further FFH mods

    Sidar + unitcombat Recon = have divided soul ability

    more debatable is Divided Soul = permanent summon

    all variations of this specialty is most likely where the Sidar modification should start. People that want to flame should just play X-box live, or some other easily flammable forum.
     
  9. CyrusOrlandeau

    CyrusOrlandeau Everescan

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    I've always seen the Sidar similar to those spirits that fought for Aragorn in LotR, only now they're a civilization and not a band of cursed spirits. I don't think the 'ninja' concept would be best for the Sidar because when you examine the lore, it doesn't fit like the other 'ninja' types.

    Shades, from what I know of mythology and fictional theory, aren't the types to never be seen or assassinate the regular people. Shades are the people who, after serving their civilization, undergo the rite that effectively eliminates their body leaving their soul intact. They then choose to exist in this plane despite their ability to exist outside of it, and continue their service for their people.
    Gameplay wise, their high level units an turn to Shades and become specialists in cities. They also have limited invisibility abilities, but they don't really emphasize that. They are typically more defensive, rather than influencing territories outside their own.
    Most of you already know this. Thing is, what should really stand out about the Sidar? I think it should be the original concept of the Shade, not only as specialists, but being able to exist in a different plane of existence.
    Gameplay wise, it could be something along the lines of an Immortal type ability, but only if they're killed using physical means. Because they're not entirely of the physical world, they could come back to, say, the capitol, only perhaps with a small penalty, like an experience drop?
    Also, since they have to be centered around their major cities, probably some UBs that will fit the lore and mythology of the Shades and just how they maintain a civilization within one plane of existence while they can exist outside of it as well.

    Just some thoughts I had. I hope this isn't confusing to anybody, I sometimes confuse myself when I'm conceptualizing. :crazyeye:
     
  10. Vermicious Knid

    Vermicious Knid King

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    I think MC was on to something when he said a dimensional mana focus would be appropriate...fits the lore and no other civ does that right now (apart from Gates, which are basically a monster-spawning mechanic).


    Giving Sidar a racial air-drop range would be pretty interesting, for example. Special building that reduces/eliminates maintenance from distance? Etc...
     
  11. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    well, the divided souls almost work like a teleport the way they are now, which is very dimensional. Also, hawks can see hidden, and being partly hidden/ ect is sort of like existing on another plane.

    Making divided souls permanent summons gives the Sidar a limited but very powerful teleport ability, but only one unit at a time, so u cant simply teleport an army by using it. Even if you could, using the divided soul call removes the hidden promotion if that unit is hidden, iirc, so it would be away to shift back into the ethereal plane in order to escape back into their own borders, ect. Its a more planned out "escape" spell, and hopefully for a whole unit-combat class.

    This is also in order to make Sidar more interesting in MP games. Their wane ability is kind of shooting yourself in the foot in MP games, unless you build your entire strategy around that concept. Also, ghosts can easily be seen by hawks or floating eyes, iirc. Which makes them less powerful, and also they usually dont survive long after their initial attack, which makes them good for killing maybe one unit, which was probably much cheaper to build.

    Its all good in single player games, but they need a lil boost in MP games. Usually I only pick the Sidar if I want to roleplay, and give myself a bit of a challenge. Sidar work best as part of an alliance to bring someone down, you can't really build an army around their mechanics, they are spies and disruptors, not conquerors.

    In the Wages of Sin scenario, the Sidar almost assasinated everyone on the Undercouncil and Overcouncil, I forget exactly why, but it had to do with protecting the world.

    The sidar civilians and leaders are the Shades, their warriors are the elite, invisible assasins that, under command from the Shades that want to continue living in this plane, assasinate any that wish to destroy the world or encase it in tyranny


    ...anyhow, I think it would be fitting if the Sidar had a leader that was Philisophical and Spiritual, very meditative view of the Sidar ... while their assasins and hidden warriors/elite are off fighting.
     
  12. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    I like the idea of a racial promotion for Shades. What would it imply? Some resistance to Death Damage? Invisibility within borders? In Sandalphon's entry he mentions the Sidar are 'hard to kill'. Maybe this could be reflected in a higher withdrawal chance?
     
  13. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    hmm, invisibility in their own borders would be pretty cool, would give them Incentive for favoring Culture.

    I was personally thinking of a slight withdrawal boost, with the ability at level 6 to buy stealth (combined with a higher withdrawal boost if its not an auto aquire promo, but u have to purchase with exp)

    for example, Mist would give +5% withdrawal, while Haze would require Mist and Combat 5, and grant stealth and +20% withdrawal (if not more withdrawal, as they could easily become a shade at that point)
     
  14. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Some thoughts.

    Like the Austrin, the Sidar's scout should be able to walk through rival borders. How about making the Sidar scout a defensive only unit which is permanantly invisible, and can walk through borders. Essentially just for exploration.

    Playing with D'tesh, invisible scouts are incredibly fun. Because when you explore a lair and orcs pop out, they just run off randomly since they can't see you. Wild animals can't pick on you either. Having 0 attack strength would stop them from being overpowered (Which the D'tesh ones ARE!) and able to freely murder workers, but make them useful for doing what scouts do, exploring. and doing what the sidar do, not being noticed.

    I like specifically, one of Sandalphon's greetings. Something like...

    "You must have good eyes to notice the Sidar, for we have walked many times through your lands unnoticed"


    Another useful thing would be Invisible workers for them. That's a very nice thing to have as any civ when you get nox noctis. your workers essentially become invincible by virtue of not being seen, and they can quietly go about their work. I think invisible Sidar workers would be quite fitting, and not too powerful.

    I must stress though, things like the D'tesh hunters which can attack while remaining permanantly invisible, are really overpowered. Please don't give them any of that, unless it's a really late unit like shadows. The sidar Ghost can turn invisible, but they reveal themselves when they attack, and can't cloak for 1 turn after they attack, creating an opportunity for a counterattack. that's one way for invisibility to be nicely balanced.

    Perhaps, just make the entire Sidar recon line invisible, but not the way dtesh does it. They should be revealed when attacking.

    Actually, just giving them the Nox Noctis effect permanantly seems pretty cool to me, and it would seem to fit with the sidar lore.
     
  15. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    aye ... I was thinking of granting the Sidar recon line all divided souls and stealth.

    Invisible scouts and workers would be nice too. Perhaps give the scouts 0 attack and 2 defense
    or just make them unable to attack. whatevers simpler.
     
  16. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Their recon line already does all have divided souls. Well, scouts don't, but they can upgrade into Divided Souls and get it. the ability is kept when they upgrade farther. In that respect, the only thing that needs fixing, is if recon units above Divided Soul don't start with it, then they should. Since a hunter can upgrade into anything, all that does is creates extra micromanagement.
     
  17. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    I like the idea of the Nox Noctis effect. It really gives the Sidar a boost as a builder-civ.

    Here's a possible Shade racial promotion. It gives them +10% withdrawal, and makes them immune to Death Damage and Capture.

    Code:
            <PromotionInfo>
                <Type>PROMOTION_SHADE</Type>
                <Description>Shade</Description>
                <Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
                <iWithdrawalChange>10</iWithdrawalChange>
                <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Illusion.dds</Button>
                <bImmuneToCapture>1</bImmuneToCapture>
                <bRace>1</bRace>
                <DamageTypeResists>
                    <DamageTypeResist>
                        <DamageType>DAMAGE_DEATH</DamageType>
                        <iResist>100</iResist>
                    </DamageTypeResist>
                </DamageTypeResists>
                <iMinLevel>-1</iMinLevel>
                <UnitArtStyleType>UNIT_ARTSTYLE_SIDAR</UnitArtStyleType>
            </PromotionInfo>
    
     
  18. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    thank you for the code ^_^
     
  19. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    those things sound perfectly good.

    Perhaps all sidar should have some protection from death damage in general ? though not 100%..
     
  20. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I'm liking these ideas... Might have to move up my Sidar changes. And Warkirby, I'm planning on having the Dtesh invisibility rely on a promotion, which is removed after combat. Think 3 turns for Dtesh and 1 for Thanatos.
     

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