simple_01 Is This Monkey Craaaazy??

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Am willing to slug it out with other masochists

Dont consider myself comfortable at diety but have wins under my belt - always war is new to me so I might need pointing out the obvious

lurker's comment: AW pointers for masochists:
- Techs are tough to get by, so a TGL build or steal has to be planned early
- Always keep expanding, yet don't conquer for a while. Advancing in territory needs careful planning and (relatively) huge SOD's. Settle behind rivers and on hills ASAP, in their face and with walls, so as to force them to charge up your 100% defensive bonus.
- Kill counts are crucial and you need to pick your best fight, every fight. Catapults are your best friends for a long while. Artilleries are game-breaking.
- 1st army is a 2-spear pillage peacekeeper force. Period. Subsequent ones either go pillage as well or go attack. Home forces need to be kept high in supply and good in quality, with catapults and archers for off and def bombards. Attack forces are usually best kept simple: armies and fast movers, so that healing never is a problem. A stranded injured foot force that just lost an attack is a dead sitting duck SOD.
- Pillage is awesome when you combine armies and explorers for the job. Make sure explorers finish the turn under the army, they have 6 "total" moves, pillageing takes 3.
- Barbs often are a necessary PITA for the economy, you just need those 25g to keep up. Picking non-EXP opponents can be necessary however
- Keep every town defended, you never know when you'll need it. Having fast movers inland at home is a generally good idea for quick response to surprise sneaks.

 

[Ansar]

If we are Byzantins, then we want lots of water for our Dromons to maximize efficiency.

 

[markh]

Ok rolled some starts. I sorted the ones out that had no settlers or no workers.

 

[markh]

Here is no.2

 

[markh]

and here is no. 3

 

[Ansar]

Thank you MarkH, I cant seem to roll decent map, the RNG doesent like me in the map department.

I like #2 and #3.

 

[Andronicus]

Rolled a few as well and these is my best efforts
- small continents, diety, no barbs, normal temp, 5 bill, Byzantines


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey04.SAV

 

[Andronicus]

I like the idea of being able to build AC
That fish in lake is 3 food in despot
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey05.SAV

 

[Andronicus]

AW newbie Q here - is a river a must given all req self research following initial contacts?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SimpleMonkey06.SAV

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I gotta say that I like Andronicus's second roll best. It doesn't have the food bonus that his third and markh's second do, but it does have a certain lux that can be a lifesaver. And we're only two techs away from Mathematics. My vote is for that one.

 

[Andronicus]

No 1
There is a fish 2 SE of starting pos but only 2 food in despot so no visible food bonus. On plus side on river with 3BGs visible

No 2
Wheat on grass, some BGs, a lux and hills for production
Not bad at all

No 3
No despot food bonus (plains wine equiv BG), has lux and 2 rivers visible making for a number of duct-less cities. And of course lots of wine

No 4
Similar story with wines, but lack of rivers makes this poor (it was my first roll )

No 5
OK I've already said why I like it - SM appears to like AC too.
After game forest chop and irrigation we have 5fpt - SF material, if only the AI would leave us alone long enough
Oh yeah, and that ivory is a readily avail lux as well, only real downside is no river.

No 6
Well markh gave 3 options so I thought I would too and besides we hadnt seen a cow yet. Whilst this does have river and trees for chops, unless there is another food bonus lurking in the fog then this is not as strong a start


Having said all above I vote for no 5.
However, I believe our chances of success or otherwise will be more heavily influenced by the nature of the land we cant see and by the situation of the AI.

 

[Andronicus]

I gotta say that I like Andronicus's second roll best. It doesn't have the food bonus that his third and markh's second do, but it does have a certain lux that can be a lifesaver. And we're only two techs away from Mathematics. My vote is for that one.

Actually it is the only one of the saves to have a potential 5fpt from visible tiles
Working igame, 3 x mBG and fish in lake gives excess of 5fpt and 7spt (incl centre tile). Add forest 2 NW for growth and voila - your ridgee didge 4 turn SF

edit - I know its only wishful thinking - no way a deity AI will allow this luxury in AW situation

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Actually it is the only one of the saves to have a potential 5fpt from visible tiles
Working igame, 3 x mBG and fish in lake gives excess of 5fpt and 7spt (incl centre tile). Add forest 2 NW for growth and voila - your ridgee didge 4 turn SF

edit - I know its only wishful thinking - no way a deity AI will allow this luxury in AW situation

Doh! I was looking at single tiles and not adding up the total food production. I'd say by all means that's the start. We can run the SF as soon as we get pottery, I suppose, and crank out units till then. I'd get a curragh out there pretty soon to get everyone in on the party.

BTW, I'd like to play by the most recent modifications of Handy's AW rules, as I've touched them up. They are as follows:

Spoiler :

Handy's AW RULES (AS MODIFIED BY A MONKEY)
No using , F4, F10, F11 or any other way to find out about civs. You may use CivAssist or other programs to manage your play, but ignore or turn off the alerts about other civs. We only know what we can see on the map.
Do not accept envoys.
We can't use the V victory panels.
No initial trade - declare war immediately.
Only way to investigate a civ is with a spy planted with that civ.

You may never trade when you first meet with a civilization. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 20 turns for the first turnset (30 if nothing really happens) and then 10 after that.

Hope these are agreeable to all.

Any more votes or rolls, or shall goz procede whenever he gets up on the other side of the world (from some of us, at least ).

 

[Andronicus]

... or shall goz procede whenever he gets up on the other side of the world (from some of us, at least ).

Hang on, I thought you were from the other side of the world

re AW rules - sound OK by me - just not sure what you mean by the V victory panels - what information are we avoiding?
Also if we're not supposed to know our oponents we havnt met does that mean we close our eyes when whoever tells us the leading countries in the world?

re SF in option 5
perhaps we should consider another variant - farmers gambit - starting city can build no military, Byzantines are well suited to this - Theadora can just flap her eyelashes at those barbarian Mongol hordes.

seriously I cant see the AI leaving us alone to get granary anytime soon, and until the game forest chop the only food bonus tile is the lakes fish - great for commerce, but no shields for military. Just a thought

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I suppose the victory panels aren't such a big deal. To be honest, I cheated a bit in the last AWD SG (Own 9) and passed on info that I got from CivAssist. I suppose the History of the World pop-ups are no-big deal either. Ignore them or not. We can also draw conclusions from the wonder pop-ups, I suppose. (Like hearing that Shaka had started GLib in 1910BC in the last game. )

Correct my understanding of SF management, but AFAIK, it don't work without the granary. And we're not starting with Pottery. Do we make spears and some curraugh till it comes in?

 

[Ansar]

Well do we want to meet people?

I'd say dont build curraghs until we know who is on our continent. Then start the exploration.

 

[Andronicus]

Correct my understanding of SF management, but AFAIK, it don't work without the granary. And we're not starting with Pottery. Do we make spears and some curraugh till it comes in?

Correct - need pottery for granary for SF
I doubt that is best way to go - if we are unable to do any trading for techs
My suggestion
1) WC for archers
2) Masonary, so we can then go to
3) maths for Zeus and for cats
that leaves
4) pottery, then beeline to monarchy?

Not being able to trade makes a big diff I think

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Huge diff. I'd go with your suggested tech tree. As long as they ain't not much more ivory on our small world, we still have a good shot at SoZ. If not, many rock throwers will have to do. MM is also a priority, I think. Maybe pick that up before going for Monarchy.

Let's see if gozpel decides to go off in another direction entirely.

@ Ansar -- the advantage to early contacts is to get all other civs on a war footing ASAP. Slows down their tech pace, which helps us. Besides, if they're across the ocean, they're not going to be a problem for a while.

For everyone, I'd agree with pretty much all of BeF's AW tips, posted above. He and I differ on the utility of barbs, but that's about it.

I hope we can do as well as the ultimate Byz game, Theodora's Excellent AW Sid Adventure. Some strategies in there we can use, perhaps.

 

[gozpel]

I have a few favourites, I like cows especially. But to get a freebee like ivory, who can resist that? Add a (at least) 6 -turn settler factory and we have it.

Is it too cheesy though?

I do love the cow and would've played that one myself. But we're a team and if we want a bonus, I don't mind the AC spot.

I won't stress a granary though, that's not my style. 3-4 settlers before a granary is my way and since I start, that's how it's happens. Pout as much as you want, you'll see the result later. But remember, 3 or 4 settlers is the max before we build that granary.

I'm going to play this in some 12-14 hrs from this post and I would like you all to say something. Hopefully intelligent.

 

[markh]

Is it too cheesy though?

If this one turns out to be too easy we can do a more difficult one next time.

On the SF-granary-matter I think we have to see how fast we are paid a visit. I never played a small map, but on deity the AIs have 2 settlers and 8 starting units ? We need some units first to survive the first wave of the AI as if we have a neighbour we will not have too much time.