SirJethro's DyP II - "The Emperor's New Mod"

Kal-el...I just finished the 5CC I was playing and wanted to post some comments and bugs. I was playing on build 4, so keep in mind that the tech rate changes didn't make it in.

- Probably because of the tech rate changes, I wasn't anywhere close to getting a spaceship. I copped out with a Diplo in 2008. Take a look at the other Civ's though....still digging their way out of the Industrial Era. Hopefully the tech rate changes will fix that.

- Is Compulsory Education really marked Not-Required in the editor (like it is on the graphic). Two things about that...one is that it obviously has to be required since it is on the path to Mass Production. Secondly, I felt like the AI was taking forever to decide to research it. I was sitting back at 0% science because I had the encyclopedia and I didn't want to research it to make my own wonder obsolete. In the end, that is exactly what I had to do because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to make a Diplo victory even if the AI waited to long to research it. Either way, Encyclopedia is a mighty powerful wonder (it accounts for much of my 60k gold)...but it also contributes to the tech race stalling out, especially when a human player has it and is milking the gold.

- Game Theory doesn't look to be setup correctly. It says in the tree that Data Encryption is a pre-req., but take a look at mine...I don't have Data Encryption, but can build Game Theory.

- Wonderland seems too expesive, or the UN is too cheap. I was using Wonderland to pre-build the UN, and when I switched I realized that UN is cheaper than Wonderland. Given that UN is key to one of the victory conditions, that seems out of balance.

- The AI is really struggling to figure out production. I investigated each Civ's top few cities. A couple of the capitals were pushing less than 20 shields! My cities are all around the 150 shield point.

- I love all of the science improvements and wonders. My capital is pushing 364gold in research per turn at 80%.

- Shouldn't Egalitarianism be Non-Essential for moving to the next era? Seems like it should if you are doing the same with Republic and Fundamentalism.

- Federalism and Consitutionalism are marked Non-Essential, but are in the path to Modern Legal System, which is somewhat contradictory.

- I can't give much military feedback since I didn't fight a war the whole game, but I did find it frustrating that tanks, which are the primary OFFENSIVE unit of the late industrial/modern era, have a higher DEFENSIVE rating than Infantry or Grunts (APCs are the first defensive unit with a defense higher than the tank's defense of 14....but they have to be built from scratch). The problem that it causes is that it puts the tanks on the top of your stack when they are fortified in a city, meaning the tanks defend first. That means you are forced to use your offensive units in a defensive manner. You can successfully hold off a strong assault, but then you are left with no offensive units. My suggestion would be to put the tank's defense at 8 or 9.

If I think of more I'll post it.

HERE IS THE SAVE, JUST BEFORE THE UN VOTE....
 
Thanks for the feedback. We don't get much info on the late industrial/modern game.

In regards to your comments:
We are changing the Encyclopedia to go obsolete with Psychology. No way for you to know that until now. :)

Compulsory Education will no longer be a prereqs for Mass Production. Again this is a relatively new development.

Modern Legal System is supposed to be marked as not required. (though, this might have just been changed in build 5)

Egalitarianism is supposed to be marked as not required. (again, this might have just been changed in build 5)

We are hoping the next patch boosts the AI’s drive to build production boosters.

As for the Tank, well I am rescaling all the units but even after the rescaling I intend on leaving the Tank as the premier Offensive and Defensive unit until the APC. It seems historically accurate. Though I suppose I can see the point of having your infantry as your primary defensive unit too.

I will look at the UN vs. Wonderland

thanks again for your feedback, this sort of stuff is invaluable.
 
Kal-el...that all makes sense, thanks. I just started a new one on build 5...hopefully we can get a launch this time.
 
Sorry, guys. I'm out of action until at least the weekend. Go on without me until then.
 
I got it.

Lokks like its just me and you for a while Sir Jethro. I'm going to do 20 turns. They go fast and there's not that much going on. As you say, We's little.
 
Sounds good Quokka. I sent a pm to Sultan Bhargash to see if he wants to put in a round.
 
I'd also be happy to fill in for a while. Would be nice to see the mod from 'the other side' for a change. :)
 
Sure, Isak. Just pick it up after Quokka.
 
Sorry about the delay but my mums computer blew up literally. Lightning strike 1, computer 0. The monitor exploded and caught fire! Surge protector melted, and I don't know what is screwed in the tower. Fried electronics reek.
Unfortunately she needs a comp for work and is a net junkie so she is using my machine more than I am now. Luckily I made her backup everything to my machine, because she also has the anti-midas touch when it comes to electronics.

Here's the report. Things have hotted up some.

Inherited Turn
Gao renamed Quokkaton.
The only other thing that I change is move a citizen to work the Shellfish by Kal-el gaining an extra 2gpt.

1425 Scale back Science for Writing next turn. The Worker is on Goto and looks to be headed towards the Iron. I’m going to change this to roading towards Lt Green dot. I think we’ll do better with a Warrior Upgrade if we are thinking of an early war. Quokkaton can build Vet Warriors

1400 Writing discovered. Researching Dynasticism in 16 at +6gpt
Trade Tibet: Writing + 40g for Iron Working + Weaving
Trade Sioux: Writing for 10g
We have Dyes near Lt Green Dot. The Sioux were insulted by any offer for their techs vs Writing, so they must have been close to getting it. That 10g looks better in our account than in theirs.

1375 The Sioux settled Hunkpapa by our Blue Dot. I don’t get the AI’s plans so far. With only the small amount of land available they are Settling like it’s Texas.

1350 ……

1325 ……

1300 Kal-el Hardy Clan=>Hardy Clan. I am sending him to Lt Green dot. Unfortunatley he will have to go unescorted as Kal-el grows next turn and riot without an MP.

1275 ……

1250 ……

I Tibet starts the Hanging Gardens in Lhasa. Early war is looking like a good option as soon as we have a few more cities. The Sioux are building Stone Henge in Butte and all other cities are size 1.

1225 Dyed Pretty founded 1 north of Lt Green dot => Wiseman.
I decided to build here because of the placement of Chamdo and it would bring the other pigs online and have Iron in its 21(Iron Works maybe? Pretty please).
Can now change Kal-el from Hardy Clan to Clan saving 10 turns

1200 SirJethro Stables Tax Collector=>Worker

I Tibet rings up and demands 30g. I pay

1175 Quokkaton Hardy Clan=>Warrior
I am sending him to 1 north of Yellow dot. This is the last site that needs a Hardly Clan to Settle.
I am going to slow Dynasticism by 1 turn so that the Clan in Kal-el can finish, because they turn into 3 pop Pioneers after that. Quokkaton is going to build some Vet Warriors ready for upgrade and then I say we smack Tibet upside the head.

I A Tibetan Hardy Shaman/Warrior appears to the SE of Dyed Pretty

1150 ……

I A Sioux Hardy Clan/Tribal Guardian appears by N’Djeama in the south by the Sugars. I hope they aren’t going were I’m going.

1125 ……

1100 Dyed Pretty Wiseman=>Tax Collector
The Tibetans are in our borders, so I ask them to leave.

I The Sioux Clan has entered Hunkpapa???
The Tibetans head west and I bet are after the Iron.

1075 Quokkaton Warrior=>Warrior
Tell the Tibetans to get lost again. I am moving the Warrior to block the path in case they decide to push on.

1050 I have to turn research off to stop Dynasticism in 1, which is good because I have to up Lux to 30% to use the Warrior in Kal-el in the blockade of the Tibetans who are not going to leave.

1025 SJ Stables Worker=>Barracks
Found Tuskany by Sugar and Elephants =>Wiseman.
Both Tuskanys did so well for us last time I think we need another.
We made it 1 turn before a Sioux TG/Clan.
It looks like the Clan that went into Hunkpapa joined the city because its now size 2

1000 Turn research back on. Kal-el Clan in 2, Dynasticism in 3
The Sioux are heading north as well.
The Sioux and Tibetans have somehow managed to jump ahead Dynasticism + Map Making + Mysticism since we were all level at the Writing trades.
Trade Sioux: 60g for Mysticism
Trade Tibet: 69g for Map Making

975 Quokkaton Warrior=>Warrior. Send this guy to Dyed Pretty as MP on Auto
Dyed Pretty Tax Collector=>Barracks


Notes
The Clan in Kal-el(next turn) is the last one we need to make so we can revolt as soon as we get Dynasticism(next turn).
The Tibetans are at Leave-or-War stage, but polite.
The Sioux are annoyed with us and aren’t leaving.
You may want to delay Dynasticism for 1 turn just to be sure that the Clan is finished and it doesn't become a Pioneer.

Save

And here's what the world looks like

Mali975bc.JPG


Yellow dot is definitely where we should send the Clan.
Orange dot is where I am hoping the Sioux send their Clan.
Lt Blue dot is where I am hoping the Tibetans send their Clan.
Both of those spots would fit nicely into our city layout and be easy picking for our troops.
 
Isak or Kal-el, wanna take it? I'm working on my 5CC spaceship right now. I'm gonna post a screenshot and savegame in a little while that will blow some minds. It definately demonstrates the value of a Modern era golden age.....holy cow.
 
I have a meeting tonight, and don't know when i'll get back. If I get home early, I'll grab the game unless someone has beaten me to it (and feel free to do so, if any of you have the time)

@Kal-el: I thought we agreed the last time, that you shouldn't be making those kinds of promises :)
 
Well guys, if you've ever wondered if it is worth waiting for the Modern Age for your Golden Age (especially in DyP!!) This post is proof. I've personally never seen anything like it. I'm playing a 5CC, so I only have 5 cities, but take a look at them. 620 gpt science research in a single city (and it doesn't even have a computer network yet!). Two cities with 320+ shields per turn (in Paris, I don't even have a nuke plant yet!).

Also, just for giggles, I changed into War Mobilization just to see what the effect would be on production. It didn't seem to have any effect. Isn't War Mobilization supposed to be cumulative with Golden Age?

Just as a side note....I could never have achieved this with a Scientific civ. My science is where it is because I won every single science wonder. There is no way I could have gotten to the Modern age without triggering the GA sooner.

sjga1.jpg


HERE IS THE SAVE FOR THE LAST TURN OF THE GA - 1922.

HERE IS THE SAVE FROM A FEW TURNS EARLIER - 1918.
 
Here is some feedback from my 5CC game (I launched my ship in the 1980s).

Mainly, there seemed to be quite a few techs that were inconsistent between the tech tree and how they are actually configured. Because I don't know which is right, I'll just list the techs where I noticed a problem and you can check them out. If you don't see an issue, let me know and I'll go back and let you know the exact problem I was seeing. I think most of these will be obvious once you look, though:
- Telephone
- Combustion
- Democratic Socialism
- Rocketry
- Synthetic Fibers

Other issues/comments:
- I think there is an issue with libraries being a pre-req for academy's. Early on, I was able to build academy's without librarys.

- With laborers, is it possible to put the pillage icon at the right of the icons instead of the left, or ask for confirmation on pillage. Here is the problem I was having: becuase I was industrious, I didn't upgrade my citizen serfs to laborers, but I did upgrade my foreign serfs. So I had a huge stake of mixed laborers and serfs. When railroads came along, I was using them to lay down track and discovered the hard way that the pillage icon for laborers is in the same spot as railroad icon for serfs. I was pillaging tiles by accident all over my empire. Finally I upgraded by serfs and spent the maintenance because I just couldn't stand it any more.

- Aircraft carriers come so late in the new tree. My personal preference would be to introduce them (maybe a "early aircraft carrier") earlier.

- Just like in PTW, you can achieve a SS victory and only research just over half of the modern tree....I've always hated that since launching a spaceship to another star is something we aren't even close to yet in real life, but we have discovered most of the tree. I would love to see some of those components that make up the first Spaceship tech (the one with Apollo) scattered thoughout the rest of the tech tree.

Anyway....it was fun. And challenging. Even with the Great Library and the Encyclopedia, I had to research (albeit at a lower rate) for the entire game to ensure I got a launch). If you are going to an SS victory, you can't just sit around and wait for the AI to research for you.
 
I can play a round first thing tomorrow morning.
 
Originally posted by SirJethro
- I think there is an issue with libraries being a pre-req for academy's. Early on, I was able to build academy's without librarys.
That prereq has just recently been removed. Unfortunately, I've now been with the team long enough that the releases are starting to run together in my head so I can't pin it down any further than "some time in this set of betas." ;)

- With laborers, is it possible to put the pillage icon at the right of the icons instead of the left, or ask for confirmation on pillage. Here is the problem I was having: becuase I was industrious, I didn't upgrade my citizen serfs to laborers, but I did upgrade my foreign serfs. So I had a huge stake of mixed laborers and serfs. When railroads came along, I was using them to lay down track and discovered the hard way that the pillage icon for laborers is in the same spot as railroad icon for serfs. I was pillaging tiles by accident all over my empire. Finally I upgraded by serfs and spent the maintenance because I just couldn't stand it any more.
I'm pretty sure modders have no control over button placement. That's an interesting bit of feedback. Personally, I use the keyboard shortcuts for 99% of unit actions so I've not really noticed that. I think I did accidentally pillage for similar reasons when I first started DyP as well though. FWIW, I'd love to see preferences to enable warnings on pillage (as well as drafting citizens, something I used to do at least once a game when trying to Hurry Production on the right-click menu).

Originally posted by SirJethro in a different post
Also, just for giggles, I changed into War Mobilization just to see what the effect would be on production. It didn't seem to have any effect. Isn't War Mobilization supposed to be cumulative with Golden Age?

It is, but it's buggy. I have seen situations in testing where the F1 screen listed the wrong number of shields (by not counting the Mobilization bonus) even though the actual number of shield icons displayed was correctly increased. There are also bugs where a given city just doesn't get the mobilization bonus for some reason (recently this was illustrated in LKendter's 2CC China SG and I think he fixed it by building a worker and rejoining it to the city.)
 
Got it.
 
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