Slow Game Thread

[Memphus]

really want to post this:

I 've no time to play and get some team support for this turn, so I pause the game til Tuesday (monday is holliday).

Rule: 4.1 -- Turn Timer

Spoiler :

The PitBoss server will give each team 24 hours in which to play the save and pass it on to the next team. If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted. AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.
The game may remain paused up to 120 hours, at which point any team may un-pause the game so play may resume.
An official vote to “continue sooner” may be posted by any team in the turn-tracker thread. Each such vote by a team will reduce the 120 hour extension by 24 hours.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler :

Ok now I am not looking for this to be any type of dig, or flame (but logic dictates with such a precurser it could be inhernetly implied...but bear with me)

Ok so Let's have a look:

If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted.AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.

Based on the Time stamps the Action was:

Husch Logged in, Logged out.
Posted MS needed more time (quoted above)
Logged in, Paused, Logged out.

Now what to me isn't fully explained is this:

AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.

The Rational was 2 fold:

1. I 've no time to play.

2. ...no...get...team support for this turn

Which Would potentially be valid but:
1. owenbevt logged in. He could of played the save, thus rational #1 can't hold.
2. If the turn had cycled all the way around in 24 hours, or even 2-3 days, then yeah maybe everyone hasn't had opportunity to weigh in. But the last time the save was there was just shy of a week ago (~164hours). So any worker moves, builds, trades, etc. could be hashed out with lots of comment time.

Now the counter arguement for this: (which I hope MS says as that is all they have to do)

==> Something so drastic happened on the interturn that would warrant immidiate team discussion. What could these be?

A. Barb Movement. But MS sees the barbs moves when the end thier turn, so they have also had ~a week to discuss this.
B. War. Units lost / damaged from last turn that only now are showing up.
C. Random event. (mute as you wouldn't be able to log out of the game with out a descision)

So to me a more robust rational needs to be given here. If team participation is low, slowing down to more than 1 turn a week isn't going to help increase it. In fact we will find many teams starting to lose more players.

 

[Krill]

Counter argument: we started a war with Kaz. Doesn't affect MS though.

What is the aim of such a post? What is the ultimate outcome that we should be aiming to make?

 

[Memphus]

Counter argument: we started a war with Kaz. Doesn't affect MS though.

Nothing feasible could change for them here, the pending war was also known about prior.

What is the aim of such a post? What is the ultimate outcome that we should be aiming to make?

1. To get MS to play faster 2 pauses in a row is ridiculous especially sicne they have low activity. MS has no chance at this game, and by slowing it down are making others lose interest.

2. To indirectly influence #1. By either:
A. Having All teams commit to vote down MS to 48 hours (highly unlikely)
B. Have the wording of the rule 4.1 be clarified to something that G_W posted. Ill add that to my post.

 

[IamJohn]

I really think that something needs to be done, it's getting really frustrating and pretty pathetic.

 

[Krill]

I think that we need to, today, vote down the request for a pause from MS and demand they get a second turn player like all the other teams have.

 

[Memphus]

new proposed post:


Rule: 4.1 -- Turn Timer

Spoiler :

The PitBoss server will give each team 24 hours in which to play the save and pass it on to the next team. If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted. AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.
The game may remain paused up to 120 hours, at which point any team may un-pause the game so play may resume.
An official vote to “continue sooner” may be posted by any team in the turn-tracker thread. Each such vote by a team will reduce the 120 hour extension by 24 hours.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler :

Ok now I am not looking for this to be any type of dig, or flame (but logic dictates with such a precurser it could be inhernetly implied...but bear with me)

Ok so Let's have a look:

If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted.AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.


Now what to me isn't fully explained is this:

AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.

So 2 Cases:
Case #1 is Obsolete:

Spoiler :

I 've no time to play and get some team support for this turn, so I pause the game til Tuesday (monday is holliday).

The Rational on quote #1 was 2 fold:

1. I 've no time to play.

2. ...no...get...team support for this turn

Which Would potentially be valid but:
1. owenbevt logged in. He could of played the save, thus rational #1 can't hold.
2. If the turn had cycled all the way around in 24 hours, or even 2-3 days, then yeah maybe everyone hasn't had opportunity to weigh in. But the last time the save was there was just shy of a week ago (~164hours). So any worker moves, builds, trades, etc. could be hashed out with lots of comment time.

Now the counter arguement for this: (which I hope MS says as that is all they have to do)

==> Something so drastic happened on the interturn that would warrant immidiate team discussion. What could these be?

A. Barb Movement. But MS sees the barbs moves when the end thier turn, so they have also had ~a week to discuss this.
B. War. Units lost / damaged from last turn that only now are showing up.
C. Random event. (mute as you wouldn't be able to log out of the game with out a descision)

Case #2 is going to be happening:

Spoiler :

I don't have access to civ the next ~3 days, so MS request a pause.

So if you Read Case #1 before, this is a pre-emtive pause, because Husch doesn't have access to Civ, so it can't be something unpredictable. As such that leaves participation level.

But if we go back to the rules we have a catch-22 on this pause:
...that team may then pause the game
So None of us can pause the game for MS. But if they can log in to pause it, why can't they play it?

As such I feel this pause request is in violation of the rules.
Fact is MS needs another turn player, slowing down the game because there is heated discussion is one thing. Slowing it down because of lack of particiaption isn't fair to the other teams.

Disclaimer 2:

Spoiler :

Yes I paused for Saturn. But that prevented a reload due to lack of tiem notification. In hindsight it actually gave our current war buddy more time for a reload on thier missed move.

So to me a more robust rational needs to be given to pause the game. If team participation is low, slowing down to more than 1 turn a week isn't going to help increase it. In fact we will find many teams starting to lose more players.

 

[Krill]

I think that the rulle should be specifically rewritten to deny pauses for the two reasons HUSch gave; anyone agree with that PoV?

 

[Dreylin]

To me, the proposed post is very "rules-lawyery" and is bound to put MS's backs up - probably killing any chance of a trade.

We do need to clarify the rules on pausing in order to stop this sort of behavior, but I think it might be better accomplished by taking a softer line to start with - start by just asking why they don't have a reserve turnplayer for this sort of eventuality, push them to appoint one, and if they can't or won't then go for the throat.

 

[Krill]

Correcting spelling and grammar...

Spoiler Memphus;8153979 :

New proposed post:


Rule: 4.1 -- Turn Timer

Spoiler :

The PitBoss server will give each team 24 hours in which to play the save and pass it on to the next team. If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted. AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.
The game may remain paused up to 120 hours, at which point any team may un-pause the game so play may resume.
An official vote to “continue sooner” may be posted by any team in the turn-tracker thread. Each such vote by a team will reduce the 120 hour extension by 24 hours.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler :

Ok now I am not looking for this to be any type of dig, or flame (but logic dictates with such a precurser it could be inherently implied...but bear with me)

Ok so Let's have a look:

If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted .AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.


Now what to me isn't fully explained is this:

AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.

So 2 Cases:
Case #1 is Obsolete:

Spoiler :

The Rational on quote #1 was 2 fold:



Which Would potentially be valid but:
1. owenbevt logged in. He could of played the save, thus rational #1 can't hold.
2. If the turn had cycled all the way around in 24 hours, or even 2-3 days, then yeah maybe everyone hasn't had opportunity to weigh in. But the last time the save was there was just shy of a week ago (~164hours). So any worker moves, builds, trades, etc. could be hashed out with lots of comment time.

Now the counter arguement for this: (which I hope MS says as that is all they have to do)

==> Something so drastic happened on the interturn that would warrant immediate team discussion. What could these be?

A. Barb Movement. But MS sees the barbs moves when the end thier turn, so they have also had ~a week to discuss this.
B. War. Units lost / damaged from last turn that only now are showing up.
C. Random event. (mute as you wouldn't be able to log out of the game with out a descision)

Case #2 is going to be happening:

Spoiler :

So if you read Case #1 before, this is a pre-emptive pause, because Husch doesn't have access to Civ, so it can't be something unpredictable. As such that leaves participation level.

But if we go back to the rules we have a catch-22 on this pause:
...that team may then pause the game
So none of us can pause the game for MS. But if they can log in to pause it, why can't they play it?

As such I feel this pause request is in violation of the rules.
Fact is MS needs another turn player, slowing down the game because there is heated discussion is one thing. Slowing it down because of lack of particiaption isn't fair to the other teams.

So to me a more robust rational needs to be given here. If team participation is low, slowing down to more than 1 turn a week isn't going to help increase it. In fact we will find many teams starting to lose more players.

 

[Krill]

To me, the proposed post is very "rules-lawyery" and is bound to put MS's backs up - probably killing any chance of a trade.

We do need to clarify the rules on pausing in order to stop this sort of behavior, but I think it might be better accomplished by taking a softer line to start with - start by just asking why they don't have a reserve turnplayer for this sort of eventuality, push them to appoint one, and if they can't or won't then go for the throat.

We have done in the past MS are just a cr&p team with no organizational skills though. Now this is the third pause in the past 5 turns.

 

[Memphus]

Draft #3

Rule: 4.1 -- Turn Timer

Spoiler :

The PitBoss server will give each team 24 hours in which to play the save and pass it on to the next team. If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted. AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.
The game may remain paused up to 120 hours, at which point any team may un-pause the game so play may resume.
An official vote to “continue sooner” may be posted by any team in the turn-tracker thread. Each such vote by a team will reduce the 120 hour extension by 24 hours.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler :

Ok now I am not looking for this to be any type of dig, or flame (but logic dictates with such a precurser it could be inherently implied...but bear with me)

Ok so Let's have a look:

If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted .AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.


Now what to me isn't fully explained is this:

AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.

So 2 Cases:
Case #1 is Obsolete:

Spoiler :

Based on the Time stamps the Action was:

Husch Logged in, Logged out.
Posted MS needed more time (quoted above)
Logged in, Paused, Logged out.

I 've no time to play and get some team support for this turn, so I pause the game til Tuesday (monday is holliday).

The Rational on quote #1 was 2 fold:

1. I 've no time to play.

2. ...no...get...team support for this turn

Which Would potentially be valid but:
1. owenbevt logged in. He could of played the save, thus rational #1 can't hold.
2. If the turn had cycled all the way around in 24 hours, or even 2-3 days, then yeah maybe everyone hasn't had opportunity to weigh in. But the last time the save was there was just shy of a week ago (~164hours). So any worker moves, builds, trades, etc. could be hashed out with lots of comment time.

Now the counter arguement for this: (which I hope MS says as that is all they have to do)

==> Something so drastic happened on the interturn that would warrant immediate team discussion. What could these be?

A. Barb Movement. But MS sees the barbs moves when the end thier turn, so they have also had ~a week to discuss this.
B. War. Units lost / damaged from last turn that only now are showing up.
C. Random event. (mute as you wouldn't be able to log out of the game with out a descision)

Case #2 is going to be happening:

Spoiler :

I don't have access to civ the next ~3 days, so MS request a pause.

So if you read Case #1 before, there was the possibility of the rationals that I presented

However this is now a pre-emptive pause, so it can't be something unpredictable.

As such that leaves participation level, as explicitely state in the quote, because Husch doesn't have access to Civ.
So I ask:

Spoiler :

...If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension...

Is this an acceptable request? Can another team member not be found to play the game?

But if we go back to the rules we have a catch-22 on this pause:
...that team may then pause the game
So none of us can pause the game for MS. But if they (MS) can log in to pause it, why can't they play it?

Disclaimer 2:

Spoiler :

Yes I paused for Saturn. But that prevented a reload due to lack of time notification. In hindsight it actually gave our current war buddy more time for a reload on thier missed move which they didn't ask for at the time.

As such I feel this pause request is in violation of the rules.
Fact is MS needs another turn player, slowing down the game because there is heated discussion is one thing. Slowing it down because of lack of particiaption isn't fair to the other teams.

So to me a more robust rational needs to be given here. If team participation is low, slowing down to more than 1 turn a week isn't going to help increase it. In fact we will find many teams starting to lose more players.

 

[Memphus]

Anyoen else care to comment?
Krill, Myself and Iamjohn want to post it.

Dreylin is currently warry of the diplomatic consequences.

anyone else?

 

[Whomp]

I think stating the need to get another turnplayer is a immediate priority or there will be a need to call the admins into the game and resolve the situation. The waits will undoubtely desteoy the game as we've seen in the current c3c mtdg.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Can we get an example of what it would say?

 

[Krill]

The PitBoss server will give each team 24 hours in which to play the save and pass it on to the next team. If a team is unable to play in time, they may post a request for an extension in the turn-tracker thread, and state the reason they believe it should be granted. AFTER the extension request and rational have been posted in the turn tracker, that team may then pause the game.
The game may remain paused up to 120 hours, at which point any team may un-pause the game so play may resume.
An official vote to “continue sooner” may be posted by any team in the turn-tracker thread. Each such vote by a team will reduce the 120 hour extension by 24 hours.

Pausing is only allowed for ingame reasons, ie war, wonder completion, unexpected GP pop (unexpected turn of events, for instance). Pausing due to turnplayers being away is not acceptable

I'd be tempted to add something in about diplomacy...

 

[ruff_hi]

And after many days of listening to people talking about rules while I ride the tube, I find myself at Mornington Crescent. I wonder how that happened?

 

[IamJohn]

Your mind is entering a state of shock because of all the delays, that's why

 

[Dreylin]

Well, oyzar just sent me a PM attempting to recruit me into MS, so there's some efforts from the other teams too.

 

[Sullla]

Here's something for you to ponder, Krill: are the Mad Scientists the Templars of the CivFanatics Demogame, or are the Templars the Mad Scientists of the Apolyton Demogame?

Food for thought during your latest pause session.

 

[Krill]

Well, oyzar just sent me a PM attempting to recruit me into MS, so there's some efforts from the other teams too.

Hehehe

Here's something for you to ponder, Krill: are the Mad Scientists the Templars of the CivFanatics Demogame, or are the Templars the Mad Scientists of the Apolyton Demogame?

Food for thought during your latest pause session.

Way ahead of you...